The United States Postal Service has long lived on the financial edge, but it has never been as close to the precipice as it is today: the agency is so low on cash that it will not be able to make a $5.5 billion payment due this month and may have to shut down entirely this winter unless Congress takes emergency action to stabilize its finances.
“Our situation is extremely serious,” the postmaster general, Patrick R. Donahoe, said in an interview. “If Congress doesn’t act, we will default.”
In recent weeks, Mr. Donahoe has been pushing a series of painful cost-cutting measures to erase the agency’s deficit, which will reach $9.2 billion this fiscal year. They include eliminating Saturday mail delivery, closing up to 3,700 postal locations and laying off 120,000 workers — nearly one-fifth of the agency’s work force — despite a no-layoffs clause in the unions’ contracts.
Any bets they will blame the president!
I read somewhere that the post office made 350 million last year but had to pay 4 billion in pensions!
Something is not what it seems!
Well, in that article that I link, there is a very considerable issue with funding pensions but there’s also the possibility that the pension fund was overfunded in error. I think the real problem will be that there is a no layoffs policy. I don’t see how they sustain that kind of protection. But not having mail service in this country is absolutely untenable, and that’s the crisis the Republicans will be forcing. AGAIN.
Layoffs are not the answer. We need to keep people working at all costs to keep taxes coming in. The USPS is a government agency, and not about making a profit.
Taking away Saturday delivery and closing post offices on Saturday would be devastating to businesses around the globe. It’s not an option.
They should just raise postal rates for fuck sake. 44¢ to mail a first class letter is NOTHING compared with postal rates around the globe.
The biggest problem is people pay most things electronically these days. I do not mail one single bill. But when I do send actual mail, I’d much rather pay more, than have more people laid off.
The question is not about making a profit, but about dealing with a huge and growing deficit. If you do you raise rates that may also really affect businesses. Their long-term problem is that people don’t mail when they can use email. Even if the occasional mailer paid a lot more, I’m not sure it would help.
I don’t know the answer. I only raise the issue because it’s coming up and the Republicans are sure to demagogue it. I hope we can find a viable solution without destroying what is essential.
I know this is a serious problem and what I’m about to say may only be a drop in the bucket, but a friend on Facebook brought up this issue and we talked about mailing back all those prepaid envelopes that get sent out in the mail from banks and credit card companies and other junk. Apparently, the post office gets paid when those get mailed back even if they are empty. I decided to mail them back empty since the banks are sitting on so much money. (I would not do this to a small business or charity). It’s also a kind of protest against all the unwanted junk mail I receive. I am looking forward to election season since I get a lot of fundraising mail from Republicans. I will be mailing those back with no donation of course but not empty – I’ll include some of my own suggestions on how they could improve their party. I might include a map and directions on the shortest route to hell.
Excellent idea. Just don’t do it for non-profit organization that help the poor, veterens or animals. Most don’t use prepaid anymore but just in case they do. By all means send those money grumbing banks prepaids back or other non-hiring entities like greedy phone company.
Its a true portrayal, these good for nothing PLs and so called Progressives spend the better part of their lives just bitching about Potus instead of focusing and calling out the nut jobs of the RW and the tea baggers.
Agree. That animation was both pathetic (as in, true) and hysterical! Just sent it to one of my far, far, far left friends (who, luckily, nevertheless, loves PBO).
These Progressives people seriously have a problem, either they never like President Obama in the first place, or they are really Republicans pretending to be Democrats, or they are Hillary supporters who never really gotten over the fact that she lost to Obama, or they are just sick bastards who need some help mentally. Anyone with any common sense, will look at what these T-Republicans stand for and they would be fighting them like it was their last fight. But these Progressives choose to fight the President and him alone. Do they ever go after the T-Republicans?
This vidio is fuckinly funny Thanks Chipsticks, I can’t hardly wait who the nominne of the crazy GOP WOULD BE, I remembers the debates
with McCain PBO made the so call hero look so dumb.I’am really very confident that PBO will be able to take any of those jerks, and please ignore the pools,
Is this a place where we can talk about PBO’s administration approving the pipeline to bring tar sands to the gulf coast and
having “walked away from stricter ozone pollution standards”? I am an OBAMA supporter all.the.way; and I need to hear our TOD’s comments about this. rsvp, svp. Thank you!
Hi Sara, to my knowledge there is no decision on that yet. Quotes from unnamed ‘sources’ during the week suggested the administration might approve the pipeline, but no one has a clue yet how reliable those sources were. Personally, I would be hugely disappointed if the pipeline was approved, even if it would provide employment, but I’m going to wait for an official announcement.
Thank you, Chipsticks.. I was trying to sort out this article in the NYTimes . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/science/earth/04air.html?hpw
and I fell for it. i assumed it was true, it was written like the truth.
So: the moral to the tale is wait for an official announcement. okay. thanks
Before I get into this, first let me say I am SHE WHO DRIVES A PRIUS. I want a plug-in one next year, and will be the first one in line if Jeep ever get around to making a plug-in standard-shift Wrangler. Electric vehilces should be the ONLY legal vehicles on our roadways. I am very anti coal, anti nuclear, and very pro wind, and solar……
That said, I am not naïve enough to think we’re going to get the world to magically stop using petroleum over night.
I’ve done some research on THE PIPELINE THING, and there are a LOT of things the protestors aren’t saying. And of course, the political punditry isn’t about to try to do anything to make this a rational conversation when they can create more Obama Outrage™.
Canada has been producing oil from tar sands/bitumen for over a hundred years. The production isn’t NEW. Yes, technology has advanced, along with demand. The pollution that everyone is screaming about from the production of this oil, is already happening, and whether Keystone XL is contructed or not, that won’t change. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_petroleum_industry_in_Canada_(oil_sands_and_heavy_oil)
No pipeline is 100% completely safe (ask Yellowstone.) However, I would rather have an over-land pipeline than more offshore drilling (but no one is asking me.)
Keystone XL/Tar Sands pipeline – is HILLARY’s baby, not Obama’s. The STATE DEPARTMENT is in charge of this entire thing. The State Department is who gave the environmental “okay” assesment this last week, and it will be THE STATE DEPARTMENT who gives the final green light when all the data is in at the end of the year. President Obama can veto it, but the bottom line on this is, THIS IS THE STATE DEPARTMENT’S DECISION.
sooooo…….. Why aren’t they screaming at Hillary?? Why aren’t they even mentioning her & the State Department? Because that would be too TRUTHFUL, and it would take away their opportunity to bash Obama.
There are still many meetings to take place with locals from every state which the pipeline is slated to pass through, and more local assessments. So NO – this is not a done deal.
There must be a study somewhere, on which creates more pollution, and which is safer in the long run – a pipeline, or countless tanker trucks, and trains, all of which could also create spills while burning gasoline and emmiting carbon monoxide into the atmosphere – carrying this oil to the refineries of America. Which one creates less chance of an accident? A pipeline? Or countless trucks and trains? I honestly don’t know the answer, there have been many of both. It would seem the potential for a larger spill would come from a pipeline, but the amount of trucks on the road transporting it, and gianttrain accidents might override that. There are some interesting numbers on oil pipeline accidents in the US (including the recent on in Yellowstone), here: http://blog.american.com/2011/07/pipeline-oil-spills-energy-fact-of-the-week/
I would also like to point out something else that no one is talking about : If we say no to this oil from Canada, why aren’t we saying no to oil from everywhere? WHY AREN’T WE SAYING NO TO OIL???
Well, obviously we’re not, nor are we going to anytime soon. So we can either continue to get the oil from the Middle East (who for the most part, do NOT have our best interests at heart) and Central America, or we can add Canada (who DOES actually like us) to our list and take away some power from the Saudis….. it would also lower the price of oil for us, (not that that should be an important issue.)
Do not think that even if President Obama vetos this, that Tar Sands won’t produce oil. It will, and DOES. China will likely be the primary buyer. Then they can sell it back to us, for a profit.
In a perfect world, we’d be working on outlawing petroleum, but that’s not anywhere close to happening. And it will never happen until we make a national commitment to invest in renewable green energy technology, and demonizing Obama won’t get us there any faster. In fact, if we end up with any GOP POTUS, it’s likely to FUCK US FOR A VERY LONG TIME. He’s the first POTUS to put Carter’s solar panels back on the White House after Reagan took them down.
Instead, this one pipeline has become the latest political GREEN übercause the PL has chosen to throw at President Obama. This is their FINAL LINE IN THE SAND. Like the debt ceiling was, and the public option, and……
What happened to offshore drilling? That is a billion times more dangerous than this. What about all the other oil producers across the globe? Why aren’t they all screaming about them?
To pick out this, and make it a target for super special Obama hatred is not surprising, even though he has stopped mountain top removal for mining, and been the most agressive POTUS to invest in Green Energy.
At this point, I have to be honest, I can see why this is being considered. I also think there are much bigger things the conservationists should be willing to get arrested over, like why the 40 year-old Nuclear plants which should have their licenses revoked without upgrades and, let’s face it, rebuilds, are getting their licenses extended for another TWENTY YEARS.
There’s one other thing – this pipeline will create a metric shit-ton of jobs, and help the economy. That’s why there are plenty on the right that hate it too.
Tally Tally, thank you so much for this. I tell you another thing this fabulous PBO is doing for me [and for the rest of us who are willing to wake up and take new ground about what being a human calls for]: I’m taking responsibility for being more aware so that I can, in turn, have some conversations with people who are caught in their fears. And you are bridging that for me. For all of us. Reading Obama by James T. Kloppenberg is a book I heard about here on TOD. I am studying it now and it is blowing my mind about Obama’s thinking, his disciplining himself to wait, think, listen; and he is such a hugely compassionate pragmatic statesman: really, I don’t know how he got to be so extraordinary. But now is the time for me [and all of us, i say] to stop being gas-guzzlling privileged humans with magical thinking about how things happen for our benefit in the world and wake up to what it takes, really, to support our life styles. He’s writing the script for the future. Or drafting it, at least. I get that we hardly know how to be with it. Thank you again, Tally. You are gold for us here in this location.
It may have been you or WIW or one of our other very smart people who place articles here. I am so thankful for this place. I read that there are other pipelines no one is protesting and yes, this is Hillary’s State Dept’s pushing for this but the pumas and Hill fans will skip that point and say that it’s already decided or protest Obama, Obama let us down if this goes through. The article I read said the EPA had not submitted it’s findings yet, so I think that whatever happens, PBO will make sure it is safe as possible and put requirements on the owner of the pipeline. Like Tally says, we can not get off oil and coal overnight. PBO is putting in place institiutions that are using electric vehicles, expanding the use of solar across the country.
You ask, where did PBO get his visionary thinking? From his Grandmother – who was very pragmatic, his Grandfather who was a dreamer and adventurer like is daughter, his mother who impressed upon him to do GREAT things for others and his intellect was inherited from two very smart and brilliant people.
Wow. Tally thank you soooooooooooooooooo much for this much needed thorough explanation of the tar sands oil pipeline issue. Knowledge and information is power!. Thanks Chica.
Also, those in the PL complaining about the smog emissions regulations should know that a majority of smog in this country is produced by automobiles. So, unless they are walking or biking, they need to look in the mirror.
President Obama has not “walked away” from stricter ozone standards. He has delayed not scrapped the decision for 16 months because of an overlapping review process. Here is the exact text of his statement:
I think I might have actually helped a couple of people this evening just telling them the facts about this – they both thought it was scrapped too, but because I knew that it wasn’t and could tell them why they were like, well OK – I could see them rethinking their stance. So people there’s a real world example of how having the facts can help.
If you read that NYT piece, you can see how people are being pounded with opinion in the guise of fact. Regardless of what happens in the future regarding these issues, that article was so full of loaded language and bias it should have been on the Opinion Page. This kind of “journalism” gets replicated throughout the entire media universe every single day. It’s just unconscionable.
Thanks for adding to the conversation in your circle. It’s really, really important.
I heard that on Friday that he was waiting until 2013. It was almost muttered that if you were not listening closely, all you would have heard was “Obama scrapped clean air policy…..”. Then that was all I heard or read. They repeat half the statement to get people upset and another blame Obama meme.
http://www.osborneink.com/2011…Good article responding to the EPA freakout. Real issue is reducing consumption; transportation policy addressed that. Regs too costly for local governments, need review.
Here you go – complete disclosure: I have an OG iPhone, and am waiting for the iPhone 5 – I am a Mac all the way – but this makes me laugh HARD. Watch this one first……
Latest poll numbers from California. Great news for PBO. Perry & Romney tied among Republicans. Saaaad news for Bachmann, Palin and the other also rans.
An excerpt:
Obama strongly leads GOP candidates in California poll
Texas Gov. Rick Perry and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney were tied at 22% among Republican voters. Two others, Texas Rep. Ron Paul and Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, were barely in double digits, and a parade of other candidates fell well behind.
//snip//
But the survey also showed that Obama’s strength in California has endured despite deep dissatisfaction among voters with the economy. In hypothetical matchups, Obama led Romney by 19 points, Perry by 24 points and Bachmann by 26 points.
By 50% to 43%, voters approved of Obama’s handling of the presidency, down from a high of 60% a year after his election. But the state’s three most potent voter groups — women, nonpartisan voters and Latinos — remained firmly in his corner. Fifty-five percent of women and nonpartisan voters were satisfied with the job the president is doing, a judgment shared by 59% of Latinos.
(As for the quitter gov)
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who has pondered entering the race, was known to 92% of California Republicans, but almost two-thirds said that they had a negative impression of her. The strongest views were particularly lopsided: Only 10% of voters had a very favorable view of Palin, but 48% said they had a very unfavorable view.
And Perry has been saying he intended to make a play for California. Of course that could have been bluster as part of a fundraising campaign designed to tap the Cali Republicans, or to fluff primary voters up if they’re expecting a long campaign between Perry ad Romney.
Only thing Perry can make a run for are California companies. He’s convinces so many companies to move to CA, however, many of the workers would not follow them to Texas. When they learn what a sorry shape Texas is in ($27billion deficit), I wonder where these companies are going to go next?
Yeah… my whole family is from TX, and I wouldn’t move there even for my GOOD/EVIL twin role on a soap – Oh, I’d go shoot it, but I’d fly home on my days off, and I am not the greatest flyer in the world…
Support is so strong for the president in California that much of OFA efforts will be in supporting his reelection in neighboring states. We have started Ride For Change again to Nevada to register voters, sign up volunteers, and keep Nevada blue.
Very good to hear. Hope you’ll make similar trips to Arizona – especially if Romney is the nominee, as I think it could be up for grabs in that case. Of course Nv would than be harder to win with Romney on the top of the ticket.
Speaking of that, if anyone gets the chance…try to watch Pat Tillman’s Story on Starz (or is it Showtime?) I caught most of it today, and I have to say…I’ll be searching for that again to watch the entire thing. How the Bush Administration used this hero for its own propaganda is disgusting. He was a true hero. Try to watch it if you subscribe to cable.
I don’t know if I believe this. Only because I don’t think China is that stupid nor would they have had any way to deliver the weaponry. I think this could be a spook plant to try and put a chill between the eventual Libyan government and any possible Chinese Government dealings.
I mean it just came out that the CIA helped Gadhafi root out rebels in the past, which now isn’t a very good look for the US. So the US could take this report and say “Hell, at least we helped you in your rising up recently, China was trying to re-arm Gadhafi.
Guess who has the nerve to be showing their crooked faces at PBO’s Detroit speech tomorrow? You guessed it: John Conyers, Trumka and Hoffa. All have bad mouthed the President in recent days. They are lucky they don’t melt in his presence after their hateful rhetoric.
From the Detroit newspaper website:
“This is Obama’s second trip to Detroit as president and first that will be open to the public. Many Michigan members of Congress are expected to attend, including Sen. Carl Levin, D-Detroit, and Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing; Reps. Sandy Levin, D-Royal Oak, John Dingell, D-Dearborn, Rep. John Conyers, D-Detroit, Gary Peters, D-Bloomfield Township and Hansen Clarke, D-Detroit.
Obama will be accompanied by Labor Secretary Hilda Solis. Union presidents, including AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, Teamsters President James P. Hoffa and UAW President Bob King, are also expected to attend.”
We all know President Obama can handle any of ‘em. Trumka was soaking up the spotlight with the President and the head of the Chamber of Commerce the other day, so I’m guessing he’ll also behave in his presence. Sens. Levin and Stabenow and Rep. Dingell will stand by him (not recognizing the names of some of the others).
What will the President have going for him, in addition to support from them? Yep: the people in the CROWD. I’m sure he has given the same thought to this speech as he has to his next. Can’t wait!
Just amazing how they want to bask in his glory and spotlight after saying all those nasty things. President Obama is truly a man of love and peace to be able to even greet these Judas who are collecting their 30 pieces of silver at his expense. That’s another reason he will win.
I’ll tell you what is going on now reminds me of the primaries after Rev Wright ‘s tapes surfaced and bittergate and when McCain announced the quitter gov. Everybody was all crazy acting except then candidate Obama who was cool as ice, didn’t flinch, just kept working his strategy while idiots were yeling, fight, fight. Go this way. Go that way.
Same craziness going on now. And Pres Obama keeps looking the enemy in the face and doing the work of the people.
That’s why I love and support him. And again, that’s why he will be reelected.
I believe it’s Conyers district. And it is labor day, so having labor bigwigs only makes sense. Besides Conyers can look out at the labor crowd, see a lot of African American families that support the President, see African American workers from Chrysler and GM who would be out of work if Pres. Obama let them go under. Of course Conyers is probably so arrogant to notice.
The Firebaggers need to do two things – stop following the German communists of the 30s who thought they’d “clean up” after Hitler and read a new book on the REAL enemy to America. Leah Burton’s “God, Guns & Greed: A Dangerous Path for America” blows open the religious fanaticism of the Dominionist Right. Anyone who lets these people have control by dissing Obama is a dangerous fool or worse. This is a MUST READ book – there is an enemy. And this president ain’t it.
This will ALWAYS be a classic for me. lol!
You know how emoprogs like to call attacks against them “hippie punching”? Emoprogs are not hippies, they’re hipsters – there’s a huge difference.
Call the guy with the straight jacket, somebody need some mental help.
That little phrase is so overated. They think it is hip. “Hipsters” for real.
Now they’re out to destroy the Post Office:
Postal Service Is Nearing Default as Losses Mount
The United States Postal Service has long lived on the financial edge, but it has never been as close to the precipice as it is today: the agency is so low on cash that it will not be able to make a $5.5 billion payment due this month and may have to shut down entirely this winter unless Congress takes emergency action to stabilize its finances.
“Our situation is extremely serious,” the postmaster general, Patrick R. Donahoe, said in an interview. “If Congress doesn’t act, we will default.”
In recent weeks, Mr. Donahoe has been pushing a series of painful cost-cutting measures to erase the agency’s deficit, which will reach $9.2 billion this fiscal year. They include eliminating Saturday mail delivery, closing up to 3,700 postal locations and laying off 120,000 workers — nearly one-fifth of the agency’s work force — despite a no-layoffs clause in the unions’ contracts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/in-internet-age-postal-service-struggles-to-stay-solvent-and-relevant.html?_r=1&hp
There will be another large round of layoffs. I know they are planning to close 5 Post Offices in my city.
Any bets they will blame the president!
I read somewhere that the post office made 350 million last year but had to pay 4 billion in pensions!
Something is not what it seems!
Well, in that article that I link, there is a very considerable issue with funding pensions but there’s also the possibility that the pension fund was overfunded in error. I think the real problem will be that there is a no layoffs policy. I don’t see how they sustain that kind of protection. But not having mail service in this country is absolutely untenable, and that’s the crisis the Republicans will be forcing. AGAIN.
Link it, or don’t mention it.
Seriously.
Isn’t the post office an independent agency mandated by the Constitution?
Please, COS (snark here), don’t bother the Republicans in Congress with facts. They’re not having any.
Yes, it’s part of Article One. Benjamin Franklin and all that!!
Layoffs are not the answer. We need to keep people working at all costs to keep taxes coming in. The USPS is a government agency, and not about making a profit.
Taking away Saturday delivery and closing post offices on Saturday would be devastating to businesses around the globe. It’s not an option.
They should just raise postal rates for fuck sake. 44¢ to mail a first class letter is NOTHING compared with postal rates around the globe.
The biggest problem is people pay most things electronically these days. I do not mail one single bill. But when I do send actual mail, I’d much rather pay more, than have more people laid off.
The question is not about making a profit, but about dealing with a huge and growing deficit. If you do you raise rates that may also really affect businesses. Their long-term problem is that people don’t mail when they can use email. Even if the occasional mailer paid a lot more, I’m not sure it would help.
I don’t know the answer. I only raise the issue because it’s coming up and the Republicans are sure to demagogue it. I hope we can find a viable solution without destroying what is essential.
I know this is a serious problem and what I’m about to say may only be a drop in the bucket, but a friend on Facebook brought up this issue and we talked about mailing back all those prepaid envelopes that get sent out in the mail from banks and credit card companies and other junk. Apparently, the post office gets paid when those get mailed back even if they are empty. I decided to mail them back empty since the banks are sitting on so much money. (I would not do this to a small business or charity). It’s also a kind of protest against all the unwanted junk mail I receive. I am looking forward to election season since I get a lot of fundraising mail from Republicans. I will be mailing those back with no donation of course but not empty – I’ll include some of my own suggestions on how they could improve their party. I might include a map and directions on the shortest route to hell.
Excellent idea. Just don’t do it for non-profit organization that help the poor, veterens or animals. Most don’t use prepaid anymore but just in case they do. By all means send those money grumbing banks prepaids back or other non-hiring entities like greedy phone company.
Its a true portrayal, these good for nothing PLs and so called Progressives spend the better part of their lives just bitching about Potus instead of focusing and calling out the nut jobs of the RW and the tea baggers.
Agree. That animation was both pathetic (as in, true) and hysterical! Just sent it to one of my far, far, far left friends (who, luckily, nevertheless, loves PBO).
These Progressives people seriously have a problem, either they never like President Obama in the first place, or they are really Republicans pretending to be Democrats, or they are Hillary supporters who never really gotten over the fact that she lost to Obama, or they are just sick bastards who need some help mentally. Anyone with any common sense, will look at what these T-Republicans stand for and they would be fighting them like it was their last fight. But these Progressives choose to fight the President and him alone. Do they ever go after the T-Republicans?
Hahahahahahahaha
Chipsticks thanks for resurrecting this video once again. It is hilarious but is filled with bucket loads of truth. Off to tweet it.
This vidio is fuckinly funny Thanks Chipsticks, I can’t hardly wait who the nominne of the crazy GOP WOULD BE, I remembers the debates
with McCain PBO made the so call hero look so dumb.I’am really very confident that PBO will be able to take any of those jerks, and please ignore the pools,
DOT creating new jobs in, wait for it…, Texas:
http://fastlane.dot.gov/
Is this a place where we can talk about PBO’s administration approving the pipeline to bring tar sands to the gulf coast and
having “walked away from stricter ozone pollution standards”? I am an OBAMA supporter all.the.way; and I need to hear our TOD’s comments about this. rsvp, svp. Thank you!
Hi Sara, to my knowledge there is no decision on that yet. Quotes from unnamed ‘sources’ during the week suggested the administration might approve the pipeline, but no one has a clue yet how reliable those sources were. Personally, I would be hugely disappointed if the pipeline was approved, even if it would provide employment, but I’m going to wait for an official announcement.
Thank you, Chipsticks.. I was trying to sort out this article in the NYTimes . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/science/earth/04air.html?hpw
and I fell for it. i assumed it was true, it was written like the truth.
So: the moral to the tale is wait for an official announcement. okay. thanks
You might want to take your grievances with the Canada government also. They really want the pipeline.
Did you know there are over 120,000 miles of oil pipelines in the US already? Why aren’t people screaming about that?
http://www.pipeline101.com/Overview/crude-pl.html
Before I get into this, first let me say I am SHE WHO DRIVES A PRIUS. I want a plug-in one next year, and will be the first one in line if Jeep ever get around to making a plug-in standard-shift Wrangler. Electric vehilces should be the ONLY legal vehicles on our roadways. I am very anti coal, anti nuclear, and very pro wind, and solar……
That said, I am not naïve enough to think we’re going to get the world to magically stop using petroleum over night.
I’ve done some research on THE PIPELINE THING, and there are a LOT of things the protestors aren’t saying. And of course, the political punditry isn’t about to try to do anything to make this a rational conversation when they can create more Obama Outrage™.
Canada has been producing oil from tar sands/bitumen for over a hundred years. The production isn’t NEW. Yes, technology has advanced, along with demand. The pollution that everyone is screaming about from the production of this oil, is already happening, and whether Keystone XL is contructed or not, that won’t change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_petroleum_industry_in_Canada_(oil_sands_and_heavy_oil)
No pipeline is 100% completely safe (ask Yellowstone.) However, I would rather have an over-land pipeline than more offshore drilling (but no one is asking me.)
Keystone XL/Tar Sands pipeline – is HILLARY’s baby, not Obama’s. The STATE DEPARTMENT is in charge of this entire thing. The State Department is who gave the environmental “okay” assesment this last week, and it will be THE STATE DEPARTMENT who gives the final green light when all the data is in at the end of the year. President Obama can veto it, but the bottom line on this is, THIS IS THE STATE DEPARTMENT’S DECISION.
sooooo…….. Why aren’t they screaming at Hillary?? Why aren’t they even mentioning her & the State Department? Because that would be too TRUTHFUL, and it would take away their opportunity to bash Obama.
There are still many meetings to take place with locals from every state which the pipeline is slated to pass through, and more local assessments. So NO – this is not a done deal.
There must be a study somewhere, on which creates more pollution, and which is safer in the long run – a pipeline, or countless tanker trucks, and trains, all of which could also create spills while burning gasoline and emmiting carbon monoxide into the atmosphere – carrying this oil to the refineries of America. Which one creates less chance of an accident? A pipeline? Or countless trucks and trains? I honestly don’t know the answer, there have been many of both. It would seem the potential for a larger spill would come from a pipeline, but the amount of trucks on the road transporting it, and gianttrain accidents might override that. There are some interesting numbers on oil pipeline accidents in the US (including the recent on in Yellowstone), here:
http://blog.american.com/2011/07/pipeline-oil-spills-energy-fact-of-the-week/
I would also like to point out something else that no one is talking about : If we say no to this oil from Canada, why aren’t we saying no to oil from everywhere? WHY AREN’T WE SAYING NO TO OIL???
Well, obviously we’re not, nor are we going to anytime soon. So we can either continue to get the oil from the Middle East (who for the most part, do NOT have our best interests at heart) and Central America, or we can add Canada (who DOES actually like us) to our list and take away some power from the Saudis….. it would also lower the price of oil for us, (not that that should be an important issue.)
Do not think that even if President Obama vetos this, that Tar Sands won’t produce oil. It will, and DOES. China will likely be the primary buyer. Then they can sell it back to us, for a profit.
In a perfect world, we’d be working on outlawing petroleum, but that’s not anywhere close to happening. And it will never happen until we make a national commitment to invest in renewable green energy technology, and demonizing Obama won’t get us there any faster. In fact, if we end up with any GOP POTUS, it’s likely to FUCK US FOR A VERY LONG TIME. He’s the first POTUS to put Carter’s solar panels back on the White House after Reagan took them down.
Instead, this one pipeline has become the latest political GREEN übercause the PL has chosen to throw at President Obama. This is their FINAL LINE IN THE SAND. Like the debt ceiling was, and the public option, and……
What happened to offshore drilling? That is a billion times more dangerous than this. What about all the other oil producers across the globe? Why aren’t they all screaming about them?
To pick out this, and make it a target for super special Obama hatred is not surprising, even though he has stopped mountain top removal for mining, and been the most agressive POTUS to invest in Green Energy.
At this point, I have to be honest, I can see why this is being considered. I also think there are much bigger things the conservationists should be willing to get arrested over, like why the 40 year-old Nuclear plants which should have their licenses revoked without upgrades and, let’s face it, rebuilds, are getting their licenses extended for another TWENTY YEARS.
There’s one other thing – this pipeline will create a metric shit-ton of jobs, and help the economy. That’s why there are plenty on the right that hate it too.
The more you know……
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/08/26/26greenwire-canada-us-oil-pipeline-poses-few-environmental-63932.html?pagewanted=all
Tally Tally, thank you so much for this. I tell you another thing this fabulous PBO is doing for me [and for the rest of us who are willing to wake up and take new ground about what being a human calls for]: I’m taking responsibility for being more aware so that I can, in turn, have some conversations with people who are caught in their fears. And you are bridging that for me. For all of us. Reading Obama by James T. Kloppenberg is a book I heard about here on TOD. I am studying it now and it is blowing my mind about Obama’s thinking, his disciplining himself to wait, think, listen; and he is such a hugely compassionate pragmatic statesman: really, I don’t know how he got to be so extraordinary. But now is the time for me [and all of us, i say] to stop being gas-guzzlling privileged humans with magical thinking about how things happen for our benefit in the world and wake up to what it takes, really, to support our life styles. He’s writing the script for the future. Or drafting it, at least. I get that we hardly know how to be with it. Thank you again, Tally. You are gold for us here in this location.
Thank you Tally,
It may have been you or WIW or one of our other very smart people who place articles here. I am so thankful for this place. I read that there are other pipelines no one is protesting and yes, this is Hillary’s State Dept’s pushing for this but the pumas and Hill fans will skip that point and say that it’s already decided or protest Obama, Obama let us down if this goes through. The article I read said the EPA had not submitted it’s findings yet, so I think that whatever happens, PBO will make sure it is safe as possible and put requirements on the owner of the pipeline. Like Tally says, we can not get off oil and coal overnight. PBO is putting in place institiutions that are using electric vehicles, expanding the use of solar across the country.
You ask, where did PBO get his visionary thinking? From his Grandmother – who was very pragmatic, his Grandfather who was a dreamer and adventurer like is daughter, his mother who impressed upon him to do GREAT things for others and his intellect was inherited from two very smart and brilliant people.
Wow. Tally thank you soooooooooooooooooo much for this much needed thorough explanation of the tar sands oil pipeline issue. Knowledge and information is power!. Thanks Chica.
Tally ..thank you so much for the info and the perspective…..
Also, those in the PL complaining about the smog emissions regulations should know that a majority of smog in this country is produced by automobiles. So, unless they are walking or biking, they need to look in the mirror.
President Obama has not “walked away” from stricter ozone standards. He has delayed not scrapped the decision for 16 months because of an overlapping review process. Here is the exact text of his statement:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/02/statement-president-ozone-national-ambient-air-quality-standards
Thanks, meta!
I think I might have actually helped a couple of people this evening just telling them the facts about this – they both thought it was scrapped too, but because I knew that it wasn’t and could tell them why they were like, well OK – I could see them rethinking their stance. So people there’s a real world example of how having the facts can help.
yes yes yes. This is what we can do for each other. thank you.
If you read that NYT piece, you can see how people are being pounded with opinion in the guise of fact. Regardless of what happens in the future regarding these issues, that article was so full of loaded language and bias it should have been on the Opinion Page. This kind of “journalism” gets replicated throughout the entire media universe every single day. It’s just unconscionable.
Thanks for adding to the conversation in your circle. It’s really, really important.
So we can’t trust the New York Times now. It is like the other media, anti-Obama.
I heard that on Friday that he was waiting until 2013. It was almost muttered that if you were not listening closely, all you would have heard was “Obama scrapped clean air policy…..”. Then that was all I heard or read. They repeat half the statement to get people upset and another blame Obama meme.
Thank you, Meta. Very helpful.
This needs to be shared.
http://www.osborneink.com/2011…Good article responding to the EPA freakout. Real issue is reducing consumption; transportation policy addressed that. Regs too costly for local governments, need review.
The iPhone 4 is still the one that makes me laugh so hard I can’t breathe, but this is hilarious too.
What’s that?
Here you go – complete disclosure: I have an OG iPhone, and am waiting for the iPhone 5 – I am a Mac all the way – but this makes me laugh HARD. Watch this one first……
Then this one:
OMG….THANKYOU……HYSTERICAL………bah hahahahahahhahahah :-0
: } , That was so funny…..so you want to buy an ibrick 5?
Yes. Does it have the wifies?
Once again, made the mistake of taking a sip of pop while looking at this……Very Funny!!!!!
And it’s sadly very true….8-)
We are under Tornado warning. It is expected to hit downtown. Hope it passes over.
Raining cats and dogs.
Stay safe. Let us know how you are doing.
Be safe afri.
Chips! Thanks for that:) I think you ought to save this and whip this penis out when we need it! Good chuckles:)
ha, ha, ha!!!!
But, but, Pres O is losing his base…everywhere.
Latest poll numbers from California. Great news for PBO. Perry & Romney tied among Republicans. Saaaad news for Bachmann, Palin and the other also rans.
An excerpt:
Obama strongly leads GOP candidates in California poll
Texas Gov. Rick Perry and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney were tied at 22% among Republican voters. Two others, Texas Rep. Ron Paul and Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, were barely in double digits, and a parade of other candidates fell well behind.
//snip//
But the survey also showed that Obama’s strength in California has endured despite deep dissatisfaction among voters with the economy. In hypothetical matchups, Obama led Romney by 19 points, Perry by 24 points and Bachmann by 26 points.
By 50% to 43%, voters approved of Obama’s handling of the presidency, down from a high of 60% a year after his election. But the state’s three most potent voter groups — women, nonpartisan voters and Latinos — remained firmly in his corner. Fifty-five percent of women and nonpartisan voters were satisfied with the job the president is doing, a judgment shared by 59% of Latinos.
(As for the quitter gov)
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who has pondered entering the race, was known to 92% of California Republicans, but almost two-thirds said that they had a negative impression of her. The strongest views were particularly lopsided: Only 10% of voters had a very favorable view of Palin, but 48% said they had a very unfavorable view.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-0905-poll-presidential-20110905,0,6048766.story
I’m guessing that Maxine Waters unleashed the Californians for President Obama!
LOL! She asked folks to unleash the CBC on Pres O. They said, un huh, right, crazy woman.
Now THAT was doubly funny, proud!
I HATE her voice! Worse than Sarah palin!
You are kind Jovie. I hate a lot more than her voice.
Maxine needs to retire.
And Perry has been saying he intended to make a play for California. Of course that could have been bluster as part of a fundraising campaign designed to tap the Cali Republicans, or to fluff primary voters up if they’re expecting a long campaign between Perry ad Romney.
Only thing Perry can make a run for are California companies. He’s convinces so many companies to move to CA, however, many of the workers would not follow them to Texas. When they learn what a sorry shape Texas is in ($27billion deficit), I wonder where these companies are going to go next?
Yeah… my whole family is from TX, and I wouldn’t move there even for my GOOD/EVIL twin role on a soap – Oh, I’d go shoot it, but I’d fly home on my days off, and I am not the greatest flyer in the world…
I meant move to Texas.
Support is so strong for the president in California that much of OFA efforts will be in supporting his reelection in neighboring states. We have started Ride For Change again to Nevada to register voters, sign up volunteers, and keep Nevada blue.
Very good to hear. Hope you’ll make similar trips to Arizona – especially if Romney is the nominee, as I think it could be up for grabs in that case. Of course Nv would than be harder to win with Romney on the top of the ticket.
http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2011/09/things-we-see-and-stories-we-tell.html Looks familiar…
Not while I’m still breathing!! http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2011/09/things-we-see-and-stories-we-tell.html
Stay safe.
This was for africa. I probably need to go to bed. I thought I hit her reply button, lol.
Jeesh! This week, the house of republicans have demanded all classified information on the OBL raid!
Just in case those terrible awful Hollywood directors got their hands on that information.
Pubs are scared of something!
Speaking of that, if anyone gets the chance…try to watch Pat Tillman’s Story on Starz (or is it Showtime?) I caught most of it today, and I have to say…I’ll be searching for that again to watch the entire thing. How the Bush Administration used this hero for its own propaganda is disgusting. He was a true hero. Try to watch it if you subscribe to cable.
They did the same with Jessica Lynch.
They don’t want the movie coming out in September/October 2012 – they’re going to try and scare away folks from making it.
http://m.cbsnews.com/blogsstorysynopsis.rbml?feed_id=71&catid=20101573&videofeed=null
China tried to arm qadaffi near end!
I don’t know if I believe this. Only because I don’t think China is that stupid nor would they have had any way to deliver the weaponry. I think this could be a spook plant to try and put a chill between the eventual Libyan government and any possible Chinese Government dealings.
I mean it just came out that the CIA helped Gadhafi root out rebels in the past, which now isn’t a very good look for the US. So the US could take this report and say “Hell, at least we helped you in your rising up recently, China was trying to re-arm Gadhafi.
Guess who has the nerve to be showing their crooked faces at PBO’s Detroit speech tomorrow? You guessed it: John Conyers, Trumka and Hoffa. All have bad mouthed the President in recent days. They are lucky they don’t melt in his presence after their hateful rhetoric.
From the Detroit newspaper website:
“This is Obama’s second trip to Detroit as president and first that will be open to the public. Many Michigan members of Congress are expected to attend, including Sen. Carl Levin, D-Detroit, and Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing; Reps. Sandy Levin, D-Royal Oak, John Dingell, D-Dearborn, Rep. John Conyers, D-Detroit, Gary Peters, D-Bloomfield Township and Hansen Clarke, D-Detroit.
Obama will be accompanied by Labor Secretary Hilda Solis. Union presidents, including AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, Teamsters President James P. Hoffa and UAW President Bob King, are also expected to attend.”
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110901/POLITICS03/109010437/Obama-Detroit-Labor-Day-speech-to-be-preceded-by-Aretha-singing#ixzz1X2ycGkpd
We all know President Obama can handle any of ‘em. Trumka was soaking up the spotlight with the President and the head of the Chamber of Commerce the other day, so I’m guessing he’ll also behave in his presence. Sens. Levin and Stabenow and Rep. Dingell will stand by him (not recognizing the names of some of the others).
What will the President have going for him, in addition to support from them? Yep: the people in the CROWD. I’m sure he has given the same thought to this speech as he has to his next. Can’t wait!
Just amazing how they want to bask in his glory and spotlight after saying all those nasty things. President Obama is truly a man of love and peace to be able to even greet these Judas who are collecting their 30 pieces of silver at his expense. That’s another reason he will win.
I’ll tell you what is going on now reminds me of the primaries after Rev Wright ‘s tapes surfaced and bittergate and when McCain announced the quitter gov. Everybody was all crazy acting except then candidate Obama who was cool as ice, didn’t flinch, just kept working his strategy while idiots were yeling, fight, fight. Go this way. Go that way.
Same craziness going on now. And Pres Obama keeps looking the enemy in the face and doing the work of the people.
That’s why I love and support him. And again, that’s why he will be reelected.
I believe it’s Conyers district. And it is labor day, so having labor bigwigs only makes sense. Besides Conyers can look out at the labor crowd, see a lot of African American families that support the President, see African American workers from Chrysler and GM who would be out of work if Pres. Obama let them go under. Of course Conyers is probably so arrogant to notice.
Romneys record on the economy:
Big money for investors, not so much on jobs!
http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/c.jsp;jsessionid=A4C399D8F4DA4738ABBA4352C0F5285E?item=http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/romneys-record-in-the-real-economy/2011/08/25/gIQArbGM2J_mobile.mobile&cid=578815
Why is CNN playing united 93 home made video from ten years ago?
The Firebaggers need to do two things – stop following the German communists of the 30s who thought they’d “clean up” after Hitler and read a new book on the REAL enemy to America. Leah Burton’s “God, Guns & Greed: A Dangerous Path for America” blows open the religious fanaticism of the Dominionist Right. Anyone who lets these people have control by dissing Obama is a dangerous fool or worse. This is a MUST READ book – there is an enemy. And this president ain’t it.
Thank you for this! “Obama took my penis” is one of our phrases around here, especially when we need a laugh. Love Rumproast and Kevin K.