While PBO is doing his job as President of the USA and working 24/7 everybody alse are talking B.S
with the GOP now religion is an issue woow I so glad my family is not religous all of us were born catholics
for our family religion is a big business and We do not want part of it our faith is personal and it should be for
everyone alse , We must respect each other irregarless of what faith you believe. But now that religion is
becaming in issue on the GOP some have said that religion should not prevent any body of becoming President.
But it becomes an issue only PBO woow this is B.S. We do not trust some of those religious leaders. the are
using people to make a living.
Whoa, baby! Mine too. Dang it why does our President have to be so fine?
OT: Listening to Randi Rhodes and some caller was talking about a primary against the President. Randi said she’s not there, but if she were the candidate she would want would be Al Gore. Are these people just nuts? Gore didn’t have the guts to challenge Bush’s stealing the election from him.
I love Randi, but sometimes she just looses me completely. I really don’t get the love fest with Dylan Ratigan. The guy makes my skin crawl. He is a blowhard. He puts the gas in “gasbag”. He is very quick to criticize President Obama for any and everything. I wish he would spend more time calling out the Republican Party for their obstruction and intransigence.
LOL at “he puts the gas in gasbag.” Dylan is nothing but a republican. As I said before, you didn’t hear him ranting about getting money out of politics until Pres Obama showed he could raise more than the GOP. Dylan was at CNBC and I believe knew all about what was going on on Wall Street. Now he wants to act like he’s so against WS.
He has an ugly personality. Likes to try to disparage people. He never has anything good to say about Pres Obama which tells me all I need to know. He’s a blow hard, loud and ignorant. I don’t know how his show is staying on. Who watches his ugliness?
I have yet been able to watch an entire show. He’s such an arrogant bully. I don’t know how he stays on either. I say it’s time for MHP to get her own show. Dump one of Tweety’s hours. He just started going off about PBO not being a good politician cause he doesn’t have the right kind of “friends” to nudge him if he’s supposedly off course.
CM then said something about the Rendell’s of the world would do anything for the Clintons and give them better advice. WTF?? Obviously, Tweety hasn’t been told that Hillary lost.
Yep, dump Ratigan, dump one of Tweety’s time slots and put in MHP.
I heard that too Proud and I was thinking “what?” I’m all for protesting and expressing dissent of opninions—that’s healthy in a democracy (as the President has always been for peaceful protest), but I don’t hear anyone’s name being mentioned but PBO. Right now I want the AJA to pass to give the economy a jolt. I reserve my thoughts for a later time—-too many voices with OWS. One thing I do not like….most of the anger directed to the one man pushing to get something done and it never seems to be good enough for some folks.
What is wrong with these people? Seriously. Instead of standing with the President, some is talking about someone to run against him. Do these dam idiots want the Republicans to win in 2012? It is almost like these Democrats are trying to help the Republicans. The goal ought to be to help this President get re-elected, and get control of the House and Senate, put some decent Democrats in there who will work with this President to get this country going again.
These people are phony and just like Rev Al once said, “these people never supported PBO, they were Hillary supporters”. They are phony and their imo their only real agenda is money…keep shit stirred up and they have a show, etc…they think they are so smart, they think they know it all…they don’t know JACK! If they know so much, why don’t one them run for president!!!!
He fought, but what could he do against the Supreme Court? Even if he had gone to Congress (which was the proper venue for a disputed Presidential election), A Republican-controlled Congress would have still given the election to Bush. He had no recourse.
I wouldn’t worry about Gore. He won’t run against Obama. He knows if he ever wants to try again, there’s 2016 and an open field.That’s another reason why nobody is paying attention to cries to “primary Obama”. Why alienate the party in a assuredly losing effort (no sitting President has ever lost his party’s nomination), when you can simply wait? Win or lose with Obama, 2016 for Democrats will be an open race with no incumbent P or VP.
They’re all living in a stoned non-reality Proud. Stupid idiots. Who the hell other than PBO can win re-election and continue implementing and protecting transformative legislation? I’m so tired of a bunch of these morons saying they’re disenfranchised voters and PBO has disappointed them. At this point I want to tell all of them to take a long walk of a short pier. If they can’t see the wheat (PBO) from the chaffe (PL and emoprogs like Cornel, Smiley, Arianna, Katrina Van Deheuvel) in front of them; then they should sit down, STFU, and leave us to do the work of re-electing him. Their so called half-hearted help would only slow down our cause.
Are these people STUPID? Al Gore is not “progressive. He is anti-choice always has been. Al Gore was the first Dem presidential candidate I had to hold my nose to voter for because of his anti woman policy.
It’s amazing to see the love affair from the left with Al Gore now.
It wasn’t the same in 2000 wasn’t it?
Michael Moore who said about Gore in 2000 that the lesser of two evils is still evil….
Michael Moore (quoted on Nader’s web page)
A vote for Gore is a vote for Bush; that is the new equation. A vote for Nader is a political Molotov that we need to throw into a corrupt and bankrupt system filled with its dirty money. We need to do this right now folks. We need to do this. It is a wasted vote if you vote for more of the same, which is what you get with Gore or Bush.”
I find it extremely suspicious that the same frauds who helped Georges Bush get elected are now praising Al Gore. It has nothing to do with conviction, it’s about money.
Michael Moore is a regular guest on Current,
Michael Moore who does everything to undermine the President, to create chaos. The guy who wanted Matt Damon to challenge the President, even Oprah.
He makes millions with this, with his documentaries, his books, etc…..the more people are angry, the more money he makes.
He doesn’t want the US to prosper, he doesn’t want social justice……….he’s going to lose a fortune if it does.
The fact that he was one of the first in the front line in OWS says it all to me……
Moore is politically naive if he thinks that Ralph Nader as POTUS will be any different than any other dem or progressive as long as there are republicans and conservdems in Congress. The key is in getting progressive dems in Congress, not in finding a challenger to PBO. He sure is dumb when it comes to facing the reality of politics!!
I know? I love Randi but since she moved back to florida, she’s buggin’. The caller said he’d vote for Hillary, who she does not like because she did not like Hillary’s attack on candidate Obama. But come on….get over it gurl. Al Gore goes not fight for himself how is he gonna fight for us? Maybe Al grew some nads since he is now single…maybe Tipper was holding him back? He seems ok attacking President Obama which I don’t like.
I don’t think Randi really believes this about Gore…It just struck me that I think she was throwing a statement out there because I think she wants a spot on Current. She had Cenk on and has been speaking highly of the network, and when a caller last week said that she should have a show, she said please write them a letter. Who knows, changes in her life she may want a change into TV. She may be tired of radio. But I just remembered some things she’s said in the past few weeks that would answer why she would just throw out Gore’s name today.
You may be right Janelle. You know when the election heats up, the RW wants to squash liberal voices. Randi’s radio station is owned by the same folks that own Rush, Hannity, etc. I would love for her to go to TV and have a internet radio show. I don’t want her voice squashed in 2012.
I was listening too & was taken back by Randi’s comment. But I remembered her conversation with Cenk. Like you, I believe Randi really wants her own show on Current & she’s kissing butt.
I tried calling Randi to ask about the OWS and I posted this:
I called Randi Rhodes show and the screen would not put be through. I told him that I am concerned about the group behind OWS and that is a Canadian group adbusters. The screen said this was false rumor that this a truly grass roots. So I asked my why were they protesting just PBO’s campaign headquarters and all her screener had to say was, “thats a good question”. He went on to say that they are upset with Obama for siding with Wall Street. I told him that the Republican party is running on supporting wall street why are they singling out just the president? He had no answer and said thanks for calling
JoJo, Sounds like Randi’s screener is not being completely honest. President Obama is not “siding with Wall Street” that is complete and utter disinformation. Secondly, if you go to adbusters website you will see that they did in fact first mention the occupying of Wall Street. And the fact that he couldn’t answer two very simple but important questions, tells me all I need to know.
I know lots of people revere Randi. I’ve personally only heard half of one of her shows once but that is about the dumbest shit thing I’ve ever heard. GAH. Just too hideous for words.
Al Gore is a very rich person he has a lot’s of bagage moraly the PL TRIED to meke him run in 2008 , but
he did not want to do it so tired of those rumors lies, rumors and more so much of B.S so MY onlu source
of information will be PBO and screw everything alse there is so much none sense B.S coming from anywhere
that I. am so tirede speculations, speculations come on>
PBO is working 24/7 and it shows I tearly feel sorry for this President he is a very good Man with the
highest morals than any other president we ever had No. body, ,No body has the the perfect morals as
PBO.
I honestly believe that people such as Hank Williams, Jr and others that hate President Obama do so because of his looks, grace, and education. They are too ignorant to understand any policy arguments.
I totally agree, Bill. I remember one time hearing a clip of Rush going practically crazy behind PBO looking youthful. It was the most bizarre rant ever. He was mad because Prez is good looking. It’s an almost primal reaction to his swagger.
Another agreement. I also think that is why a lot of idiots say things about Michelle. Wow, I envy her “buffness” – but just love her more for it. Wish I could be so determined, yet I’m far from jealous. Same with my DH and PBO. Although the only thing my husband and PBO has in common is their both male, both good looking and they have gray hair, lol. We have the utmost admiration for the first couple (and their daughters) and are so proud of having this lovely (and loving) couple represent our country.
OMG, Tweety is promoting some nutty as a fruitcake segment that Obama has a “people” problem, that he has a problem meeting and being with “people”. What in the world is this? Opposite Day on Tweety? This is senseless. Hopefully, this is not as insane as it sounds. Because right now it sounds like the Biggest Fattest Lie of All Time.
I gotta ask: Why in the name of all that is holy are you still watching Chris Matthews? He has always been and will always be all over the map politically, bruising for a brawl, and rarely making sense about anything. He hasn’t changed one iota in years. Complete waste of your time.
Tweety must not be familiar with the work of Pete Souza. His photos tell a different story. When people are around President Obama they are usually smiling and in a good mood. They want to be close to him, to shake his hand, to give him a hug, to give him a kiss, to get an autograph, to show their support. And he is like the pied piper when he is around children. They love him. They wrap their arms around his waist and his legs. They look up at him with admiration.
Tweety is just going out of his way to be provocative. This is definitely “opposite day”. As far as I am concerned, this just proves that President Obama is getting through to the American people. They are on his side. Tweety must have gotten the memo from the GOP. They have been complaining that President Obama is campaigning. The GOP should know, they have been in campaign mode since January 20, 2009.
Tweety has mental problems; coupled with his habit of spraying spittle across the table. I saw the mini-headlines of what he was covering today and when he said he was going to talk about PBO having a people problem, I changed the channel. I was in no mood for an hour of BS.
Our4thEstate Bobfr
Message to #NEWSTAINER #puffballmathews President Obama stands with and for the people & all your yammering won’t change it. #PRESSON
Tweety unfortunately is doing this quite honestly in my honest and humble opinion to scare away white voters continuing the false idea that the President is “Foreign” to rest of his crowd.
How on earth can he know who the President meets? Is he there inside the Oval Office during office hourse? or is it because the President doesn’t go to bars on a daily basis and get drunk with the Washington people?
Not watching him, but how the hell can he even spout such lies when everyone sees PBO out with people? Here’s an idea: Let’s all send Tweety via twitter a pic of PBO with crowds of supporters. It’ll be fun.
The mainstream media never cover the President’s interaction with people. The videos and pictures we see on this marvelous site are rarely, if ever, covered by the national media. May be Chipsticks could enlighten Chris Matthews by sending him a few of the evidence in TOD’s archives that clearly debunk his claim that the President has problems relating to people. I doubt that Matthews has ever seen that precious video of the President comforting the crying baby. Yesterday I was out celebrating my birthday with friends. Naturally our conversations touched on the current political climate. We were all disappointed for not being able to see the President when he came to San Diego. I’ve been around for some time and I know of no other President, in my lifetime, who genuinely enjoyed being around people than President Obama. Other than JFK, I can’t recall any other president who ordinary people loved to touch, take pictures with, more than they do with President Obama.
dotster….did you just listen to that idiot!…Tweety is just a twerp,and as vacuous as they come…he didn’t even have the balls to stop Ron Christie’s lies that the Tea party revolt last year was very peaceful. I’m going after him on twitter!!.
apparentlt someone (Washington insider) wrote an article that PBO has a “people” problem because he does not socialize with them, drink with them and give the Washington people a hug now and them. so naturally he has his justification for the crap
Tweety is not talking about ordinary people. He’s talking about the cocktail party croud in Washington. From some remarks here and there in the past two and a half years, i gather that the cocktail party goers (media, lobbyists, political operatives) don’t like President Obama because he doesn’t play with them. He doesn’t trade favors, doesn’t play favourites, doesn’t promise scoops in exchange for good treatment in the media, etc, etc…
Make no mistake, the Beltway was PERFECTLY confortable with how things were, but then came into office a president who was NOT interested in the status quo, who was NOT interested in the Washington games. A president whose sole focus has been to SOLVE PROBLEMS, and to be the defender of ORDINARY americans, americans who have NO VOICE in Washington.
Deep down inside and maybe unconsciously, the Beltway resent President Obama because he is asking them to change their ways, and operate at a higher level, both intellectually and morally.
I read a few weeks ago, don’t remember where, someone comparing Washington to Versailles. I thought the comparison was a good one.
**Posted on earlier thread, I’m re-posting it here**
Dear TOD,
I’m afraid of what’s happening to your site. Seems like the last few days many on here have decided to condemn OWS and other ‘occupy’ movements across the country as anti-Obama based on the comments of a few. I finally gave up yesterday after trying to say there are things about the movement that we don’t fully know. Like how they’re being infiltrated by folks who claim to be spokespersons and have ulterior motives, and moles and trolls claiming to represent the entire movement.
If someone is mad at the entire group because a few people said something, isn’t that the same as being mad at all Black people because one or two did something messed up? What’s the difference? Just because Naomi says something doesn’t mean she speaks for everyone out there any more than Tavis or Cornell speak for me. She just got on TV. She’s not even an American. She didn’t get gassed, she’s not camping in the park. Who gives a shit what she thinks?
Saying there are no people of color when, clearly, if you look at the videos there are a variety of people involved. Why disparage these folks by calling them hippies and the like when it’s clear to anyone who wants to see that people of all colors, ages and backgrounds are involved?
Why are you mad because a few didn’t want to listen to John Lewis when Lewis himself says he isn’t mad?? And says he understands?
Do you want your site to become another GOS? With folks just spewing negativity 24/7? Because that’s all I’ve seen here for the last few days. Just because folks here are pro-Obama, please don’t become purity trolls like the tea party or the folks at Daily Kos or FDL. The Democratic Party is a big tent and there is room for many points of view. Some folks are mad at President Obama. So what? He says he supports them, as does Nancy Pelosi. Are you going to be like Bush, “you are either with us or with the terrorists?” They don’t have to speak in favor of AJA to be legitimate. That’s some standard you’ve set.
I don’t know what the entire movement is about. But I do know this. These folks have been LIVING outdoors for weeks in NYC. Most on this blog are sitting at a keyboard complaining and “casting side-eyes” at something that no one totally understands while the folks out there are getting pepper-sprayed and arrested. AND THEY’RE LIVING OUTDOORS!!!
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. OWS is clearly upsetting the right-wingers, Eric Cantor and Fox News and them. If it’s pissing them off, that makes me think there’s something going on that I like. They shouted down Geraldo and Fox News [chanting "fox news lies"] and drove his opportunist ass out of there.
Martin Luther King said, “there is no separate black path to power and fulfillment that does not intersect white paths, and there is no separate white path to power and fulfillment, short of social disaster, that does not share that power with black aspirations for freedom and human dignity We are bound together in a single garment of destiny.”
The pictures that Chips has shown on this very site show that just as many white people love our President as Black people. Why let a few losers spoil that? Why let Karl Rove win by sowing distrust and misinformation? From the looks of things here, he’s succeeding.
I say this as a 56 year old Black woman who was 13 years old when King was assassinated. I come from the old school. I remember the dogs and the fire hoses. I remember the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago when folks got their heads busted. Black people and white people risked being beaten and killed so that you can sit up on this blog and express your opinions rather than pick cotton or clean somebody’s bathroom.
I’m happy to see SOMEBODY out there putting their ass on the line for something, even if I don’t totally understand. And raining down on the right wing and the MSM–making the 1% very afraid in the process.
They don’t have to march to my drum. And I ain’t hating them.
Everyone has the right to their opinion and you have the right to yours, and I would never attack you for them.
One thing I will push back on is your statement that everyone is sitting at their keyboards and doing nothing, this statement I have to disagree with. I like others are very involved in local petition drives and voter registrations. And to that fact I’m proud to say that I worked for weeks and months on end here in Ohio to help stop SB5 and the Voter restriction Bill passed by Kasick.
One of the main reason why I haven’t jumped on board with OWS is becasue unfocused anger leads to confusion. Here in Ohio once the Gov passed each bill we collectively focused our anger on taking down the legisaltion.
I’m sorry but I can’t offer my support at this time.
Jax6655, as I have stated many times and I will repeat again, my main concern right now is to get the AJA passed so that people without Jobs can get back to work. When it comes to defending my President from Teabaggers, PLs, and some in the OWS, I do it with a badge of honor and I DON’T compromise on that. As for the OWS, I still don’t know who they are and I still don’t know what they stand for and i still don’t know who speaks for them. But from now on, I will NOT attack them UNLESS they attack MY President without a good reason and FACTS to back it up. IMHO
Thanks for speaking up, jax. Lots of truths there. I think many have been hesitant about supporting this because they haven’t known what to make of it, didn’t feel comfortable, didn’t know where it was heading, many confusing and contradictory descriptions. I am slowly being brought around, especially when I see Repub rt. wing commentary becoming increasingly condemning, becoming more hateful, trying to mischaracterize it, dismiss it as just a bunch of stoned out hippies. I think they’re scared. And as I am typing, there is horrible, haughty Cantor on the teevee saying he is really becoming concerned about the growing dangerous mobs, and there is Nancy Pelosi voicing support. It is yet to be seen where all this is going to end up, but I appreciate you voicing your thoughtful opinion.
I’m not sure why you think that people are condemning OWS here. People are expressing concerns. People are ‘reacting’ to rumors. I think condemn is too strong a word. I have my doubts about the ‘movement’, but I haven’t looked into it all that much either. So there are doubts and mistrust; there is blind support, too. I don’t think any of us have the complete picture. Neither does OWS. Or the media. We get to stumble around to try to understand it. Seems to me if OWS knew what it was about; then we wouldn’t be so confused.
Tien you are right tomorrow PBO will be in PHILY AND HE MIGHT SAID SOMETHING ON THIS MATTER
pbo ALL READY SAID THAT PEOLPLE ARE FRUSTRATED he understands this issue. I put my full trust
on PBO any time. so please, please people calm down and let PBO handle this issue and do not panic.
Instead of abstractions that movement could focus on 5 achievable goals: 1 Re-election President Obama; 2 Election of progressive Democratic candidates for Federal and State elected offices; 3 Demand #GOPFAIL pass the President’s Jobs Bill; 4 Insist on the repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley in Jan 2013; 5 Work every single day from now until Election Day 2012 to ensure every voting age person has access to a ballot and VOTES.
Actually, from all reporting I’ve seen, it is not fizzling, it is growing. Massive multiple thousands in Chgo today, described as a rapidly growing demonstration, shutting down downtown streets. More are planned for every day this week, with themes like “Take Back our Jobs, and Take Back our Homes” etc. I like how they’re usurped the tea party “take back our country” theme.
I hope to go to “Occupy Charlotte”. Im going to carry a Pass the Bill sign. I cringe when I hear anti Obama stuff at the OWS but there are many opinions there. Including the anti-war folks.
Over all it seems to be anti-greed.
Did you see the twitters that James Okeefe was there? Everyone was watching for him and his dirty tricks on Twitter.
dotster it may be growing now because it’s relatively new, the media has just started paying attention, the blogs are aflame with OWS talk, right now everyone is trying to get on TV or make a name for themselves, so it seems exciting. But months and months of the same nebulous agenda with no action plan and diffuse anger is NOT sustainable. Furthermore, Winter Season is coming and imagine having to go out and stand in sub-freezing temperatures day after day chanting and shouting the same thing with no identifiable goal or trackable progress. That is not as easy as it may sound.
My question is: how do they plan to take back their jobs and their homes without legislation and without voting out obstructionists or even vocalizing the damage that Republicans are intent on doing? So far, I haven’t heard even one word from OWS. I can’t argue with Jax6655′s statement that a few voices shouldn’t paint the whole movement with a dark stain, but they have to have a cause. They have to stand for something tangible, and have a clear objective. Otherwise, they’ll be hijacked. So far, I’ve heard statements that they want a third party, that they hold both parties equally to blame, that they want to primary President Obama, that they have bigger fish to fry than passing the “corrupt” American Jobs Act. I have heard that people aren’t registering voters, that they have been told that voting won’t get them anywhere. That they are simply against the oligarchs. They’ve been visited by many of the same people who spend time talking and doing/achieving nothing – like Dylan Ratigan, Michael Moore, Ed Schultz.
I just won’t throw any support to people who – in an election year – don’t want to talk about voting, politics, legislation. Who allow unofficial spokespeople to make disparaging remarks about the President of the United States and threaten his re-election – and then they don’t rush to dispel the impression that these unofficial spokespeople speak for their entire group. I won’t support that. If they change and become coherent and reasonable and supportive of the only agenda that’s out there and targeted to help their cause, i.e.President Obama’s agenda, then I’ll reconsider. In the meantime, I’ll continue working to support President Obama.
Who is hating on them. I see healthy skepticism, challenging a movement that does not have clearly defined goals. Why do you expect everyone here to automatically agree with this movement. I welcome the discussion.
Members of this site are convicted, convicted to the President of the United States who has enormous forces working against him, and yet works tirelessly to move this country in a positive direction. We do not want to contribute in anyway to those forces that would work against him, knowingly, or as maybe the case with OWS, unknowingly. Is this movement truly’ raining down on the the right-wing and the MSM’……it doesn’t sound as if the evidence of that is unequivical. I think the discussion should continue until the skepticism is assuaged. In the mean time pressure needs to be asserted to see that the President’s AJA is passed, a clear and obtainable goal.
Questioning the Occupy Wall Street movement is not allowed. Only questioning of the questioning of the Occupy Wall Street protests is allowed. Just because they have never denounced any Republican by name who has thwarted Wall Street reform, and just because they boo the only President in the last 60 years who has ushered in unprecedented Wall Street reform and just because they allow Michael Moore and Cornell West to speak but don’t have time for a man like John Lewis who doesn’t have just rhetoric and far left talking points to back up his convictions but a long record and actual bruises from genuinely fighting for civil rights on the streets and not just in TV studios is no reason to question the movement that shall not be questioned.
Desraye, you make a good point, maybe it should be an “OCCUPY CONGRESS” movement. I can understand the outrage at Wall Street, but I would rather see the focus on congress where it belongs. Congress is not doing it’s job. First and foremost, there should be demands about why Dodd-Frank and the CFPB are not being implemented three years after the financial meltdown. The Republican Party is blocking Dodd-Frank. Meanwhile, it was the lack of regulations and accountability in the Bush administration that created the environment for financial disaster. I hope the outrage at Wall Street will translate into demands for action from congress.
This site will never be a GOS because it won’t turn on Obama. The GOS is anti-Obama everyday. The GOS has embrace the OWS, which make me even more suspcious. Civil Rights Movement had a goal. The Wisconsin protesters had a goal. What do the OWS have? I also think that these are the same people that didn’t turn out for the 2010 elections. It would make sense to protest in front of the Capitol and the MSM Corporation, but instead the protest in front of Wall Street who don’t really care.
In one of his diaries, LaGreca unwittingly revealed that he thought that the OWS crowd was mostly “Independents” who could vote for Obama, IF Obama did X, Y or Z. That tells me everything I need to know.
I would’t mind if they came clean and said that they were anti-President Obama. Then we would know that their goal is to ensure his defeat for a second term. Obviously I would be vigorously opposed to such a goal, but I would at least concede that it’s a specific goal that can be attained. I am, however, not sure that even that modest goal could be attained by urging people not to vote. Besides, If not voting eventually helped the election of a Republican president, do people promoting OWS think that that would result in destroying Wall Street and corporate capitalism?
As it stands now, I am not quite sure what OWS movement hopes to accomplish. To compare this to the Arab spring really shows the naivety of the people involved. The Arab revolts have a specific goal: removing dictators who have ruled for decades, and installing democratic governments in the Arab nations. Just in case people haven’t noticed, different countries in the Arab world have employed different tactics to attain the goal of overthrowing dictators. What is still unclear, at least for me, is trying to figure out the ultimate goal of OWS? Is the goal the abolition Wall Street and the destruction of corporate capitalism to be replaced with socialism? Is that a realistic goal? Are the tactics being utilized by OWS movement sufficient to bring about the victory of socialism over capitalism?
I strongly believe that grassroots movements have to focus on attainable goals. It may require utilizing a variety of tactics to attain those
goals. Nevertheless, generalized righteous anger and frustration is not a goal. Rather, anger and frustration should be a spark to focus on defining goals of alleviating the anger and frustration and devising realistic and effective tactics that are likely to bring about success.
I am sorry but I just have not been able to get a handle on what OWS is all about; except that people think they should emulate what took place in Egypt and Tunisia. In the end, people are going to be disillusioned anyway because they will quickly find out that the United States is not a carbon copy of Egypt and Tunisia. If this country could withstand the massive rebellions of the 1960′s and still remain a fiercely capitalist country, I am not at all convinced OWS is going to fundamentally change that reality. For me, I would rather focus on realistic, though obviously incremental, changes that are likely to improve the lives of ordinary people in the existing system. Things like the President’s jobs bill which will put millions of unemployed people to work, and also continue to provide a safety net for those without jobs. I also would like to focus my energy on re-electing the President, and majority Democrats in Congress because I would not like to see the Republicans do away with all the progress this country has made over the past seventy plus years.
Thank you so much UT for your kind words. They mean so much to me because I have the highest respect for you. I truly value all your commentaries. They make me feel good to know that there are young people, like you, who are so wise and not so easily manipulated. Like our young President, you are indeed the future leaders of this country.
nathkatum7 you are right on we lives in Europe and in Asia the Arab spring was a specific movement. people
there were so tired of been opressed for so many years I not sure some people realy understand the diference
Also people have to understand that there will be a stuff lies made up about PBO. but we should not panic. this
is politics we have to focus on Re-electing PBO My family have spend thoundsend of Dollars since PBO was
running and time for his campaing and yes he is doing a fantastic JOB WE put our money where our mouth is.
There is so much speculations whining speculation whining and i want ths to STOP.
I totally agree wit you, Mel. There is a huge difference between fighting rulers who have been in power thirty or forty years, and with no prospect of change, and trying to bring about change in a country that allows elections every two years for Congress, Four years for President, and Six years for Senators. Those of us who are committed to change have to realize that the change we seek can only be realized if we focus on voting for representatives who support our interests. I don’t see how political change can happen in America without being engaged in electoral politics.
Excellent points made Jax6655. I am appalled that folks here are attacking OWS and repeating the MSM lies that they are like the Tea Party. I recalled that the Tea Party carried guns, where are the guns at OWS?
The only concern I see is that there are too many mixed messages with OWS, but they have a noble cause and have the right to voice their opinions. Even if a few are against President Obama, I’m not seeing them calling him a Muslim or a Kenyan like the Tea Party bigots.
We just have to disagree without being disagreeable, many of us have forgotten that from President Obama. President Obama supports the movement, Nancy Pelosi supports the movement, many Democrats support the movement… why are folks echoing the right and condemning it here, just because of a few idiots?
We here at TOD should know better. We shouldn’t be working against OWS, we should be helping them because we could become a HUGE dynamic force against the Republicans and the upper 1%.
A bunch of posters here over the weekend said that they are an extension of the Tea Party, just because a minute few of these protesters idolized the Tea Party. Yet I see no negative Obama signs comparing him to a Kenyan, a witch doctor, or any of these protesters wearing guns.
As far as their goals, I’ve already expressed my concerns that they don’t have a long term goal. But we have the tools to help them decide a long term goal.
Instead of working against them, why not help them out? They probably would know better if a few of us with smarts set them straight, since a lot of them probably listen to too much Teevee and talk radio.
Like I posted below, OFA has the tools to drive the message and establish a goal, why shouldn’t we help them out? Just because a few made stupid comments about Obama? People keep talking about how they should be pushing for AJA, yet most probably don’t even know about it… they probably would if we got down there and helped them.
I’m going to have to disagree. President Obama does not support their movement. That’s not what he said at his press conference. He said he understood their concerns about the predatory practices of Wall Street. Have you done any research on how the group got started in Canada? How about you go read the “chat away” threads from the weekend and get some information about OWS. The people who gave the original call for the movement saw themselves as an extension of the teaparty. That is not a group anyone with a modicum of sense should want to be affiliated with. Why should we not use critical thinking skills before jumping blindly on a bandwagon that is scattered and has no concrete philosophy and message? We’re not repeating any MSM lies; we conducted research for ourselves and before you castigate us how about you provide answers to these questions?
Do you support people telling millions of people not to vote in 2012, do you support people constantly bashing President Obama? Do you support people who are scattered ( that’s putting it kindly) and whose message is convoluted? Do you support a Canadian corporation who sees themself as an extension of the teaparty and were the ones who began this so called “movement?”, do you support a faction that seems to be chock full of Ron Paulites, libertarians, emoprogs, professional lefties who use this so called “movement” as a breeding ground to undermine President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who thought their main mission was to hurl racial slurs and epithets about President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who went to PBO’s Chicago campaign HQ’s to cause a disgusting ruckus? Do you support a so called “movement” who keeps tying PBO to wallstreet and calling him a crony of Wallstreet? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are blocking Richard Cordray’s nomination to head of the CFPB; an agency that actually stops the predatory practices of wallstreet and big banks? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are trying to defund Dodd-Frank financial reform law and drastically slow down the implementation of the law? Do you support a “movement” that aimlessly wanders about chanting in a zombie like manner instead of doing something proactive like registering people to vote in 2012 so GOPTeabaggers can be kicked out, Dems can retain the whitehouse and both chambers of congress and progress can finally be restored? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want money out of elections they should find a legal channel to strike down Citizens United? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want the economy to improve or obtain jobs that will boost the middleclass they should petition congress to pass President Obama’s American Jobs Act?
Until they get their act together; I for one will not blindly be led by the nose to support a faction whose “message” changes at the speed of light and I for one will not be castigated for not throwing my support to a group who doesn’t know left from right.
I’m not suggesting blindly supporting their faction. But a few loudmouths do NOT speak for an entire group, do Maxine Waters, Cornell West, Alan West and Herman Cain speak for ALL African Americans?
You say they are an extension of the Tea Party, where are the guns? The Tea party was largely pro gun violence, calling for “Second Amendment remedies” and being “armed to the teeth,” one of the Teabags even called for an armed revolution against the government. And as I pointed out, NO anti Obama signs filled with hatred like those seen at the Tea Party, just calling for an end to the wars, and signs against rich fat cats… I thought those were causes that we supported.
And as I pointed out, the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s were against JFK because he wasn’t onboard with their cause.
Perhaps they don’t know better because they watch too much Teevee and are leaderless. We have the tools to guide them, all I am suggesting is be a skeptic of the movement if you wish, but to dismiss the movement entirely when they share concerns that we have re: Wall Street and the rich is just foolish and naive IMO.
I’m not dismissing the movement entirely but if they can’t get their act together, they’re nothing more than a ship with no rudder. Everyone has a philosophy. EVERYONE. Even if people were dismissing the movement entirely, that in no way makes them foolish and naive. Where is this movement going? If they can’t come up with a complete set of mission statements then they’re just another distraction and I for one am sick and tired of endless distractions. 2012 is too crucial to mess around with and President Obama is valiantly touring the country spreading the wonderful message of the AJA and how it will concretely help people. Instead of his message being spread to people through various avenues, another distraction like OWS comes along and changes the discussion; which should be about JOBS JOBS JOBS and how the AJA will produce up to 1.9 million JOBS! Just because they don’t carry guns doesn’t mean they don’t harbor some teaparty and libertarian principles. Now the OWS meme du jour is calling for a 3rd party candidate to primary President Obama. Hmmm… sound familiar?
If they were indeed calling for a “third party candidate,” then why are Reverend Al and Van Jones behind the movement? Last time I checked, they are both 100% pro Obama, and I just don’t see them supporting ANY movement that they believe would hurt the President.
I think you’re taking the words of a few crackpots in the movement at face value, propped up by the media. It’s the SAME media that props up Maxine Waters, Cornell West, Alan West, and Herman Cain as voices for African Americans, are you going to take their opinions at face value?
Maybe the AJA is your personal concern, but maybe not to them. Maybe they’re more concerned about making the rich pay their fair share, we don’t all have to share the same goals. Heck, not everyone was onboard with HCR as a cause, yet it got done.
And as I pointed out, we don’t all have to share the same concerns… not everyone had the full passion to repeal DADT or pass HCR.
Although it should be a concern to them, who’s to force them? Last time I checked, we supposedly supported thinking freely and not forcing folks to agree with us, “Disagree without being disagreeable” is an idea that Barack Obama discussed in the primaries that many of us have long forgotten.
Nintendo, this movement claims to be about people’s anger on the economy, the unemployment rate, and the super rich not paying their fair share. The AJA takes a small but significant step towards addressing those very issues. Therefore, It SHOULD be a primary concern and the business of those protesting to ensure that the AJA gets passed.
Nintendow, So a bill that is about putting people back to work and taking a step towards having millionaires pay their fair share in taxes should not be of any concern to a movement that claims to be angry about unemployment, and corporate greed?!?!?!?!?
As I pointed to Desraye, we can’t force folks to support AJA anymore than we couldn’t force folks to get onboard with DADT repeal or HCR, the media did enough to toxify the goals of both DADT repeal and HCR to where it would take folks time to get onboard with both ideas.
Yes, it should be their passion to get behind AJA, but most are probably to the point that they are convinced that it’s just more wasteful spending that will end up favoring Wall Street. Their thinking is obviously wrong, but like I said, we can’t force them to change their minds or thinking, we’ll have to attempt to convince the folks who are willing to listen in order to get AJA done.
But to make a larger point, these OWS folks are fighting the right wing, and a weakened right wing means that we can get the AJA passed. If the right wing wins, then how can we get the AJA passed? Disagree with some of them attacking Obama, but they’re driving the right wing batshit crazy at the same time. IMO, as long as they aren’t attacking President Obama with racial slurs or calling him a Kenyan like the Tea Party nuts did, as long as they aren’t calling for armed revolution and wearing guns like the Tea Party nuts did, they are free to attack the President as much as they want to… I’m just glad they’re driving the right wingers crazy.
In case you don’t remember, the folks who were not on board with DADT repeal or HCR were the SAME anti-Obama folks from the PL factions. The folks who really wanted DADT to be repealed via congress, and who needed Heath care reform , were fully on board and supportive of the President’s efforts and were jubilant when those bills got passed.
Similarly, if someone is now not on board with AJA being passed, it means they are NOT supportive of this President and his goals for the country. Which brings us back to our original question: Who does OWS really support, and what exactly do they stand for?
well nintendo – if making the rich pay their fair share is indeed their concern then they ought to be pushing the only thing that is in the works to make that happen: the AJA wherein taxes will be raised on the wealthy. I’ve heard not a word from these protests on that.. or protecting consumers via the Consumer Protection Agency, and the repub agenda to dismantle that and prevent Cordray from getting approved. If Jobs/ wealth disparity are the issue.. why oh why is the AJA being ignored by the ows?
As to Rev Al, I listened to him today and it was clear that he supports this- he supports protesting, especially when it concerns economic injustice.. I am of the thinking that he very much wants to use this energy to accomplish something also.. we shall see what becomes of all of it.
“But to make a larger point, these OWS folks are fighting the right wing, and a weakened right wing means that we can get the AJA passed.”
Really? The MSM is using the protesters to run a negative narrative about PBO. They energy would much rather be used alling some of the congresscritterss.
The AJA should be their personal concern. A bill that could provide up to 1.9 million jobs should be their personal concern and if it isn’t that just shows me how scattered, disorganized and foolish the group is. They’re chanting day after day. How about they chant to congress Pass President Obama’s jobs bill so they have jobs, have paychecks and can pay their bills. How about they chant for passage of the AJA which puts a 5% sur-tax on the rich so they pay their fair share as you said “they’re more concerned about.” Why did they invite Cornel West and Tavis Smiley, and Michael Moore; three well known grifters to speak at their rallies but not allow Congresman John Lewis? Since you keep comparing them to the Civil Rights movement ( which is an erroneous comparison by the way) why wouldn’t they want a bonafide hero of the Civil Rights era to lend his voice and support? I respect Reverend Al and watching his show, I could see he was behind what the movement could be; but not even he, MHP, and Van Jones could articulate the mandate of OWS. They couldn’t articulate the philosophy of OWS, they couldn’t articulate the goals of OWS, they couldn’t articulate in a nutshell what the core of the movement is about. Rev. Al supports PBO 100% but even he has said he is not above making mistakes.; and I for one am still not 100% on board with OWS and I will be watching them with a very very leery eye.
I spoke with Randi Rhodes screener because I wanted to ask her about the adbuster association. The screener would not let me talk to Ranid but I asked him about this group and he said it is a internet meme that is incorrect. He believes this is a true grass roots organization with a few bad apples. You have done the research, what are your thoughts?
And that’s the point that I’ve been attempting to make with OWS, that they have a few bad apples propped up by the media that don’t speak for the entire movement.
As for Ad Busters, I wouldn’t know about them, so I won’t comment. But I do know that the right wing are being loud and boisterous in order to shut OWS down, so it is NOT a Tea party wing or operation as some here have tried to claim.
JoJo, have you checked the adbusters’ website? And how does he know that this is an “Internet meme that is incorrect?” They published an article about Occupying Wall Street on July 13th of this year. Did any one hear about Occupy Wall Street protests before that date?
Hiya Jojo, I’ve researched Ad Busters and they are not a true grassroots organization. They are a corporation that preaches anti-consumerism, yet they are the biggest partakers of consumerism. They are proud of the fact that they are an extension of the teaparty and their original mission statement for OWS was to petition President Obama in a virulent manner. Their mission statement was a bash President Obama fest. They had magazines they had published that depicted President Obama as a clown and a Wall Street oligarch. It was disgusting. Hopefruit2 also had a wonderful article about them. They’re very very suspect and Randi Rhodes screener is naive if he/she thinks otherwise.
nintendowii10 Right, Right Right the Teaparty were paid by the CHOCH BROTHERS I have not seen any hate
signs of hate against PBO there is a diference and why some people are paying attention to the MSM talking
heads there get paid a lot’s of money to spin there B.S.
Tell me nintendo. Have you seen these ows peeps who appear on teevee sock it to the rethugs as much they have done it to dems ? I haven’t and hence my distrust of that movement.
They aren’t because they want to be an “apolitical” movement which I can understand. The Civil Rights Movement of the 60s was apolitical, do you think that we would have had the Civil Rights Act passed had the liberal Republicans and few liberal Democrats of that time got behind it and used it as a political platform?
And most Americans could care less about “socking it to the Repubs,” that’s political kabuki theater that gets NOTHING done. Anthony Wiener and Alan Grayson socked it to the Republicans all the time, and they got soundly kicked out of office because that’s all they did.
The fact that they launch into dem bashing proves that they aren’t an apolitical movement. Do you seriously think that the fatcats give a shite about what a coupla thousands protest about ? Why should they be afraid (it seems to be a fantasy reality cooked by the lw blogs) of buncha people when they know they own the congress critters who will do anything they want ? As I said above, right cause, wrong target. So it will fail.
Comparing this to civil rights movement ? puhleeze.
Maybe a few of them are upset at Democrats, and that is their right, as I’ve been upset with Democrats myself, especially the extreme left ones like Dennis Kucinich and the right wing ones like Mary Landrieu.
And yes, the fat cats DO give a shit, look at all the Republicans and right wing talkers attempting to stop them… last time I checked, a lot of them ARE millionaires, so they do indeed care about what these folks are doing.
Right cause, wrong target? The right wingers are complaining, how is that the “wrong target”?
You’re saying that it will fail IMO is not different than the right wing saying that it will fail.
Yes, right wingers complaining is a HUGE sign of success, it shows and proves that this ISN’T a Tea Party or Republican operation. Heck why else are right wingers showing up at OWS to muddy up the message? Because these OWS folks are being effective.
And yes, you saying the OWS protests will fail is EXACTLY like the right wing saying it will fail. Have to call a spade a spade. While you might think the protest is “scatterbrained,” they’re actually driving even Glenn Beck insane to the point where he’s saying these OWS folks are going to go out and slaughter people, and anytime the right wing is delusional and crying is a good day in my book.
Say what you want about these OWS folks being crazy, but they are fighting the right wing, and in order for us Obamabots to get the things we want (AJA, Obama re elected) we need to combat and fight the right wing, and that’s what these OWS folks are doing.
I am calling a spade a spade. This wrongly focused ‘protest’ will fail. You can’t seem to handle the truth.
And I have seen the “oh, he/she pwned this or that rw’er on teh teevee/radio” dances too much to give your claim of right wingers being afraid any credence.
When I see the ows folks fighting the right wingers, the corporate media and the corrupt congress critters (dem or rethugs doesn’t matter), I will give them credit. Until then, I will not fall all this hype.
I don’t see how a protest is “wrongly focused” when it’s got 80% of elected Republicans and the right wing being vocally LOUD against it and even sending in their own plants to pose as supporters of the movement in order for it to fail.
Eric Cantor calling them “mobs,” Herman Cain calling them “unAmerican,” Glenn Beck saying that they will drag people into the streets and slaughter them, I’m supposed to believe that they are lying through their teeth and are willing to sink a movement that benefits them?
Then you are NOT “apolitical.” And neither is OWS. So stop using that excuse about being “apolitical.”
And if anyone claims to be upset with the Democrats and are bashing them all the time, then they should be doubly upset with the Repubs and bashing them TWICE as much. Even Landrieu is BETTER than the average Repub in congress.
I never said I was “apolitical,” I said they were.
And like I said, many of them are cynical to the point to where they don’t even care about Democrat or Republican, and I can’t blame them. There have been too many Democrats and Republicans sitting on the sidelines getting nothing done, so I can see why they don’t give a shit about either party at this point.
They are not apolitical either. Almost every other sentence they utter has an Obama criticism. The statement from the original OWS group was to take their grievance to President Obama and demand that he form a Presidential commission to do X, Y and Z. How can you claim that they are apolitical?
With all due respect, nintendowii10, I think you do a great deal of disservice to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960′s by comparing it with this amorphous OWS! The Civil Rights movement had specific goals. The civil rights movements utilized a variety of tactics including: Boycotts, Sit-ins, Freedom rides, Marches, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, massive voter registrations. To suggest that the Civil Rights Movement was “apolitical” or non-partisan is totally false. It’s true that the majority of Southern Democrats (Dixiecrats) opposed the Civil Right Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights of 1965. It is also true that a few liberal Republicans in the North supported both laws. But the vast majority of members of Congress who voted for these laws were Democrats. Hence the reason why African Americans abandoned the party of Lincoln and started voting in overwhelming numbers for Democrats. Besides, many influential Northern Republicans like Ronald Reagan, and Barry Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Laws, particularly the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This is why the passage of these laws precipitated the exodus of the Dixiecrats from the Democratic party to the Republican party. This began with the election of 1964 (Goldwater’s electoral votes were mainly from Southern States) and culminated in Nixon’s Southern strategy that resulted in former Southern Democrats converting to Republicans. For you to suggest, and imply, that the passage of the Civil Rights laws was detached from partisan politics is a total distortion of the history of the Civil Rights Movement and the reality of the politics of the 1960′s and 1970′s.
You are most welcome UT! Like you, I really wish people would refrain from using mythology to support weak arguments. Keep up the good work you do for this site!
Thank you, Nintendo. I am not trying to tell people how to think. I’m not saying those here don’t have a right to their opinion. My concern is the knee-jerk reaction to rumors as truth, as someone stated above. To your point, they aren’t calling President Obama names, carrying racist signs, guns or anything.
Third-party? From the left? Ain’t gonna happen. I don’t care who says it or why. And Democrats don’t typically vote for third parties. It would only hurt Republicans so bring it on. Who are they gonna run? Kucinich? Cornell West, Ralph Nader? Please. Only a fool would primary PBO. And only bigger fools would spend one penny on that effort.
The rumors are planted by Karl and his ilk [Jane and her crew to be sure] Grover, Fox News, RNC to induce panic and create division. That’s all I’m saying. Why listen to them and think what they say is actually going to happen??
Fuck Naomi, and the rest of the haters who are trying to co-opt OWS in to their agenda. I heard someone on a Sunday show say that Michele Bachmann should speak to them and I howled!!!
This reminds me so much of the 60s when anyone over 30 was suspect. John Lewis is over 30 so he gets that. They don’t trust this government at all and for good reason. That doesn’t mean they want to primary PBO. That’s just the moles and trolls. They only win if we get all negative and believe their horseshit and turn on each other.
Telling them what they should do, how they should act, who they should target, what they should believe, what they should support . . . why do they have to do what some here think they should?
bjW2–I never said that folks here aren’t doing anything. You are taking exception to something I didn’t say.
Me4Obama–your main concern may be AJA and that’s good. It doesn’t mean it is everyone’s main concern. And that doesn’t make them suspect or wrong.
It is not my intention to attack anyone. This site has been so positive and suddenly, so fear-filled. We’re a year out. Eric Cantor’s scared. The MSM is trying to dismiss something they don’t even understand as they’re part of the 1%–and they want to keep the status quo.
In the words of the late Curtis Mayfield, I plan to stay a believer.
Yes you did say that folks here aren’t doing anything. You said “Most on this blog are sitting at a keyboard complaining and “casting side-eyes.” That’s being disingenuous. You have no right to just assume that we’re twiddling our thumbs on a keyboard all day. Many of us have jobs to go to, schools and colleges to attend and on top of it all, we’re out there registering people to vote, attending local OFA meetings, attending OFA strategy sessions, working with College Democrats at our various colleges to help and advance President Obama’s jobs bill and advance Democratic candidates. We’re not a bunch of people lazying about on OWS sleeping outside in a blanket, decrying capitalism while using our MACs and PCs, using the internet, collecting money oh.. I’m sorry donations so we can advance our “cause.” Nobody held a gun to their heads. Nobody forced them to sleep outside. How about they go learn of new voter registration laws and register people to vote? That’s actually doing something proactive and advancing a cause instead of chanting zombie like day after day and thinking the media is their friend.
“We’re not a bunch of people lazying about on OWS sleeping outside in a blanket, decrying capitalism while using our MACs and PCs, using the internet”
Call me cynical, but that right there demonstrates one of my points, that some of us attacking this movement are taking talking points against it from the RIGHT WING!!!
I’m sorry, I don’t see these folks “lazing about,” they’re out there making their voices heard and it’s got the right wing running scared. I thought that was something we were supposed to be proud of, that the right wing are scared shitless, and like it or not, we have to fight the right wing, and OWS is one of the many tools at our disposal.
If we don’t fight the right wing, then how can we get the AJA and other important items accomplished? President Obama realizes that while they may not agree with him personally, he can’t dismiss them entirely because they are helping to drive fear into the right wing, which in turn helps him because a weakened and scared right wing = a win for the President = a win for us.
If OWS isn’t your thing, then that’s OK, but I find it extremely hypocritical and foolish to dismiss them entirely and lie about them being a faction of the Tea Party… it’s no different than the right wing saying that George Soros is the secret puppetmaster of the Democrats or that Democrats and Republicans are the same, a lie is a lie.
Thye need to protest in front of the Capitol and the MSM not Wall Street. Wall Street don’t care about the protest, politician do. ABL try to register voters, but she was was not welcome by some. If you not going to register voters or acheived any goals then why protest at all.
This goes back to what I said earlier, we can’t tell others how they should protest. Frankly, I simply don’t believe that these folks are camping out in the park and getting pepper-sprayed and arrested for a month simply because they are anti-Obama.
You’re telling them where they have to protest in order to be ok with you. That’s my point. As Nintento says above, ” they’re out there making their voices heard and it’s got the right wing running scared. I thought that was something we were supposed to be proud of, that the right wing are scared shitless, and like it or not, we have to fight the right wing, and OWS is one of the many tools at our disposal.”
You think just beacause a couple of Republicans are scarer mean mission accomplish. Wall Street is not the only problem. Congress is the problem also. Once again what is there goal.
I agree with what you are saying except it should read …’in front of Congress…’
Think about how the media would spin protesters showing up in front of the Capitol. I first saw this suggestion in a comment to an article from someone who was against PBO. Now I’m seeing it on twitter. Which means it is either catching on or being deliberately pushed. Then innocent folk come along and sign up to the idea and violla! a new talking point for the opposition.
If you’re not paying close attention to what you are saying, they can make it sound like you are for protesting the President.
See how easy this is? Now say you were a famous person and the media just got ahold of that statement. This is what they are doing to lots of PBO supporters in attempts to divide. How fast and furious the spin and manipulation travels round the web. Proceed with caution.
We think we are better equipped to handle this kind of stuff, but I am seeing supporters being challenged and questioned while the real ‘enemy’ is being ignored.
The MSM already got the narrative going that the OWS is against Obama. It wouldn’t be any different. The American people do not like congress. It would not hurt if they protest in front of the Capitol.
Sure, it’s foolish to dismiss a group that allies itself with the teaparty. I’m calling BS on your statement Nin. Outright BS. Sureeeee they’re making the rightwing run scared. Pleeease. How about they go find something concrete to do? We have 2012 to worry about and I for one am not in the mood for their aimless distractions.
Uhh… they ARE making the right wing running scared, are Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Fox Propaganda HAPPY to see OWS folks protesting? Last time I checked, they all said that the OWS are “dirty hippies looking for free handouts,” and other words to that effect.
Sure we have 2012 to worry about, I agree there, but a big part of 2012 is, like it or not, fighting the right wing. OWS is driving the right wing nuts, which means they’ll have less energy come 2012, which means we increase our chances at winning. If the right wing continues to win, then how can we win? How can President Obama get re elected if the right wing isn’t weakened? He knows that, which is why even he hasn’t dismissed the OWS entirely.
Call it a distraction, but at least they are helping to weaken the right wing and make them afraid. At least the right wingers aren’t focused on pushing more useless crap with their attention on OWS, which is a good thing IMO.
so with a weakened right wing.. then tomorrow when the senate votes on the AJA- it ought to pass, as all the repubs are sure to be so frightened by the ows protestors- they’ll vote YES. Frankly we could have used those extra voices making phone calls – those extra fingers tweeting and emailing.. and those extra boots marching to Congress.
I’m curious to see how many take their non-partisan, apolitical protest to President Barack Obama when he speaks (tomorrow, I believe in Miami).. on the AJA.
The right wing is NOT running scared at all. They are just appearing on TV for show to pander to their stupid wingnut base, but they aren’t scared. Meanwhile their media is helping them along by allowing Obama-bashing ONLY from OWS supporters.The right wing folks are laughing…all the way to bank -no pun intended.
Actually they are running scared, or did you miss Eric Can’tor calling these folks “mobs,” Herman Cain calling them “unAmerican,” and Glenn Beck going way off the deep end and suggesting OWS are going to take people out into the streets and slaughter them? Call me crazy but that doesn’t sound like a group of right wingers “laughing to the bank.”
As for the media propping up certain OWS folks to bash Obama, it’s the SAME media that props up Arianna Huffington, Cenk Uygar, Keith Olbermann, and other rich liberals as “Obama’s base.” A few bad apples does NOT speak for the entire group, unless you’re willing to cede that Huffington, Uygar, and Olbermann are “Obama’s base.”
Yup. This meme that the rightwingers are “scared” is a complete delusional chest thumping idiocy. The right never runs and the left never learns. Fucking 2010 is a proof.
2010 is proof that we DIDN’T fight back against the right wing and let them win. They were actually thumping their chests in the runup to the midterms and they won because NOBODY fought against them.
OWS are fighting back against the right wing, Rush Limbaugh, Fox Propaganda, Glenn Beck, the Republicans ALL want to shut this movement down… if it only helps them, then why are they so vocal in their opposition?
And I’ve got proof that the right wing are indeed running scared… Eric Can’tor calling these folks “mobs,” Herman Cain calling them “unAmerican,” and Glenn Beck going way off the deep end and suggesting OWS are going to take people out into the streets and slaughter them are just three examples, and I can come up with plenty more, that does NOT sound like a group that’s “laughing all the way to the bank…” and why else are they hiring right wing plants to diminish the movement?
Again, limp, beck and other rw nutjobs trashing left movements is not new But then left’s political tactics are futile is not new either. ows is the latest shiny object that is dangled before the easily distracted left.
OWS is doing a heck of a lot more to fight against the right wing than ANYONE did last fall. Last fall, I only saw the Teabags protesting, virtually NO counterprotests, and the Teabags won.
I’d rather the OWS folks continue to protest than to sit back and let the right wing continue to talk smack and spread lies and propaganda unchallenged. While many of them may NOT support the President, at least the President isn’t taking on the right wing alone. Would you rather that the President be forced to face the right wing all by himself or would you rather he gets all the help he can get, even from opponents who don’t like Republicans, but aren’t 100% onboard with the President or Democrats? As long as the right wing stay focused more on OWS, they aren’t passing useless crap that gets nothing done, which is good IMO.
I’ve read all your comments. Until I hear somebody in the OWS stand up and say that President Obama has been fighting for the middle class and poor people since entering office, I’m on the sidelines. They have given Cornel West a seat at the table – the man who called the President a “black mascot”. And who accused the President of letting WallStreet crooks walk free. They have given Naomi Klein “more than just a seat” and she goes on TV and tells people NOT to vote. Now maybe OWS cannot control who gets on TV, but somebody ought to have access to media to debunk the anti-Obama crap and the effort to persuade people to stay away from the voting booths.
If the OWS movement is about the middle class and poor people then why in the world are they NOT chanting pass the AMERICAN JOBS ACT? WHAT ELSE IS ON THE TABLE?? Do they think some magical unicorn is going to come down from the skies and make everything all better? Unless they plan on overthrowing the government, they better figure out, FIRST how the government works and SECOND how to get positive legislation passed. OH, BUT REALLY FIRST, they better figure out how the hell we’re going to stop this voter suppression going on that may take away the voting rights of 3 MILLION people .
I give you Alan Grayson, who I believe has praised OWS and did nothing BUT bash Republicans during his entire House tenure, and he got soundly kicked out of office because that’s ALL he did.
As I pointed out, while a few of the OWS folks have bashed Obama, I don’t take their attacks at face value. There’s already at least one account of these “disgruntled Obama supporters” pulling an OKeefe/Brietbart style stunt to diminish the movement. You attempt to make the case that this OWS movement only benefits the right wing, why would the right wing hire plants to diminish their own movement?
At this point, I’m not concerned with them attacking the Republicans as I am concerned with them having no long term goal or objective. But I am not ready to dismiss them outright just because of a few crackpots propped up by the media. At least the right wing is focused more on them than on the President… heck Sean Hannity’s resorted to calling President Obama “President Crybaby” while the OWS movements are happening.
Now you’re being disingenuous. You said they (OWS) were bashing and calling out republicans and that’s why the rightwing was running scared. Now you can’t provide a concrete example of them calling out Cantor, Boehner or even Paul Ryan. You cite Alan Grayson, Mr. PL extraordinaire as an example. Mr. Emoprog himself? How is his congressional career going? Oh yeah… he got kicked out by his constituents because of his verbal diarrhea. How’s that working out for him?
Pleeeeease… unless this movement can get a concrete message, they’re just a bunch of disorganized crackpots popping up in various states and then popping out again. Get a concrete message before you protest and jump on a bandwagon of something that is absolutely rudderless. Until they have a genuine honest concrete philosophy, I for one will continue to watch them with very leery eyes.
@utaustinliberal I NEVER said that they were fighting against the Republicans, I said that they were fighting the right wing, and that is evidenced by 80% of the elected Republicans and right wing media being vocally LOUD against them.
They may not be for President Obama, but they aren’t for the Republicans or right wing either, and last I checked, we’ve gotten more Democrats casually giving support to the movement (President Obama and Nancy Pelosi to name two of them) whereas the right wing wants them to shut up.
You are free to watch them with leery eyes, but dismissing them completely is naive IMO. Like Jax6655 pointed out, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and OWS could be a “frienemy,” a friendly enemy. Oxymoronic I know, but in order to make progress we have to WIN at all costs, which means forming alliances with folks we may not agree with. OWS may or may not last long, but IMO we’d be wise to take advantage of them distracting the right wing.
Nintendo I’m not talking about what Mr. Grayson (who is not even an OWS rep) did while he was in congress. I’m asking you to show me an OWS representative NOW bashing any prominent Republican as part of the OWS protests. The fact that you needed to stretch to Grayson when he was still in congress over a year ago is evident that you don’t really have a credible response to my question.
@hopefruit2 when I say “right wing,” I’m referring to the folks like Limbaugh, Beck, Fox Propaganda who are NOT elected to office.
As for Grayson, I only brought him up because he was on Randi Rhodes show talking about and praising OWS. But if he’s not good enough for you, how about Bernie Sanders, from one of your own links, he’s attacked Republicans and he’s being embraced by OWS according to your own link… and he’s also attacked POTUS, but then again, he’s another one of the “bad apples” speaking for an entire group.
As long as the elected Republicans and the right wingers bitch about OWS, they are free to protest as much as they want, and the more time that the Republicans and right wing spend on attacking OWS, the less time they have to attack our President and derail his agenda. That’s a win-win in my book.
@Nintendowii10. The fact that you trot out Sanders and Grayson means hopefruit was right. You have no credible evidence of the OWS people calling out republicans and rightwingers like they’ve been bashing President Obama. And for your information republican and rightwing are virtually one and the same and for you to separate them shows your political naivete. As for your assertions that we need to court an unknown entity for the battle in 2012 shows even more how politically naive you are. Why would anyone with a modicum of political savvy want to co-opt a group they don’t know their full and honest intentions. You see how the republicans co-opted the teaparty and now the teaparty is ruining the republican party. They’re ruining them because the republicans co-opted a movement they knew virtually nothing about and you suggest President Obama and Democrats do the same. That’s freaking political suicide and the fact you don’t see that goes to show just once again how politically naive you are.
@utaustinliberal “Right wing” and “Republican” are NOT the same, and I explained it. When I said “Right wing,” I was referring to the right wing media folks that aren’t elected into office.
And calling me politically naive? You once again make a false parallel comparing this movement to the Tea Party. The Tea Party was BOUGHT and PAID FOR, and the reason why they are hurting the Republican party is because they actually wasted time elected Tea Party folks to office.
You made a point that OWS aren’t attacking Republicans, which means they are apolitical. The only OWS folks bashing the President are the few crackpots posted by the media, at least one that has been exposed as a right wing plant… and I already made the point that if you want to believe that the crackpots that the media picks from OWS to bash the President respresent ALL of OWS, then you have to also believe that Huffington, Uygar, Olbermann, and other rich liberals are “Obama’s base” because the media props them up as “Obama’s base.” Can’t have it both ways.
And calling me politically naive was the lowest of the low. I never personally insulted you or anyone else who disagreed with me on the topic of OWS, I just posted my thoughts and stated it’s alright to be skeptical, but be skeptical with facts and the truth. The truth is I’m willing to focus on the positive of OWS which is them causing the right wing to be afraid (I’ve been on MediaMatters and seen nothing BUT hatred from the right wing towards OWS) whereas you and others focus on the negative meme from the media.
I’ll admit, I don’t know all the facts, but I’m not willing to dismiss this movement entirely. If the right wing and elected Republicans are up in arms, OWS are doing something right.
@Nintendowii10 In this day and age rightwing and republican are one and the same and if you don’t see that it means your’re politically naive. That’s not an insult. It’s just a fact. How can you say OWS is apolitical. The minute they began bashing President Obama they became political. You think they weren’t funded by some corporation? How about you go research Ad Busters before you keep on naively chastising the rest of us for being skeptical and not jumping on the loony bandwagon. Ad Busters began the OWS faction because they wanted people to go out in the streets and nastily demand President Obama do X, Y, and Z and if he didn’t kowtow to their demands then that showed he was in bed with Wall Street. The minute Ad Busters sent out the memo that people should go into the streets on September 17, 2011 and demand President Obama set up a Presidential Commission to immediately prosecute Wall Street it became political. The minute Ad Busters said it saw itself as an extension of the teaparty it became political. The minute Ad Busters put out magazines depicting President Obama as a clown and a crony of Wall Street it became political. It has always been political before the first leg stepped onto Wall Street and the chanting began. Frankly, it’s politically naive for you not to research the facts before you jump 100% into praising the movement and depiciting them as President Obama’s and the Democrats saviors. Please….. that’s outright hogwash. Come back with sound solid facts before you castigate us skeptics for not blindly following you and your fellow OWS cheer gallery into the crackpot fray.
Jax66555 right again , but why do we have to go back in talking about the past? this is the 21st century
my children do not understand about the civil rights movement and how much they did for the new generations
This is History is like the GOP likes to talk about Ronald Reagan , reagan is the past, PBO is the President for
the 21at Century and a clear VISION for the COUNTRY.
I’ll repost my response from the previous thread (I was late to the game):
Food for thought – thanks.
Keep in mind there also are men and women on TOD who are white and in their 50s – and dare I say 60s (me) – who are from the old school and remember the events of the 1960s, which you describe. Some of our recollections are not nearly as real or vivid as yours, to be sure. But as that personal history will always inform your opinion, it will also inform ours – regarding today’s events in our country and beyond.
What I’ve picked up on @ TOD is not so much negativity, as a learned fear of trusting anything that has the slightest inkling of turning anti-Obama. Why? Because we have all been victims of seeing that since the day after his Inauguration. Hopefully, I’m not the only one that thinks that when we discuss negative thoughts or feelings, we are doing so for the purpose of helping each other get through them – so we may focus on our real, clear mission: to support President Obama now and get him re-elected for a second term, for the good of everybody in our country and the world.
Hope you can understand my point of view, as I do yours.
Jaxx6655; Do you support people telling millions of people not to vote in 2012, do you support people constantly bashing President Obama? Do you support people who are scattered ( that’s putting it kindly) and whose message is convoluted? Do you support a Canadian corporation who sees themself as an extension of the teaparty and were the ones who began this so called “movement?”, do you support a faction that seems to be chock full of Ron Paulites, libertarians, emoprogs, professional lefties who use this so called “movement” as a breeding ground to undermine President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who thought their main mission was to hurl racial slurs and epithets about President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who went to PBO’s Chicago campaign HQ’s to cause a disgusting ruckus? Do you support a so called “movement” who keeps tying PBO to wallstreet and calling him a crony of Wallstreet? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are blocking Richard Cordray’s nomination to head of the CFPB; an agency that actually stops the predatory practices of wallstreet and big banks? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are trying to defund Dodd-Frank financial reform law and drastically slow down the implementation of the law? Do you support a “movement” that aimlessly wanders about chanting in a zombie like manner instead of doing something proactive like registering people to vote in 2012 so GOPTeabaggers can be kicked out, Dems can retain the whitehouse and both chambers of congress and progress can finally be restored? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want money out of elections they should find a legal channel to strike down Citizens United? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want the economy to improve or obtain jobs that will boost the middleclass they should petition congress to pass President Obama’s American Jobs Act?
Don’t harshly castigate us just because unlike you we refuse to jump on the bandwagon of a movement that is scattered and bizzare. Don’t castigate us just because unlike you we refuse to jump on the bandwagon of a movement that is has extensions and connections to the teaparty. This website is NOTHING like GOS so please refrain from using such erroneous and disgusting comparison. We use critical thinking skills on this website and it is human nature to be leery of a disorganized faction instead of jumping in impulsively. So what if they’re living outdoors. No one held a gun to their heads. They have internet, 21st century technology, food, water, music and a whole host of stuff. If they’re whining about being outdoors how about they go back inside. It’s a voluntary movement and I for one am not going to show sympathy for their useless whining and moaning. Are they the only ones who’ve ever protested? Please……. cry me a freaking river. Just because Cantor and Republicans don’t like them doesn’t mean we should automatically cheer their movement. What kind of crappy group think is that? If you want to join their movement that’s your business; but don’t come here and say this website is turning into GOS or spewing negativity 24/7 because in my opinion you do us a grave disservice and are frankly spewing BS.
I hear you Jax6655. Of late there seems to be a constant drum beat of them vs us, as you noted, emanating from this wonderful site. While I also understand most of concerns being posted here, they seem to be amplified quite a bit these days. Oddly both stance are valid and neither should be dismissed.
I am happy for the protests. But if we only focus on the negative side of it, we will never benefit from the positive. The positive is ppl around the country -and world- are saying no more of this crazy disparity between the powerful few and common masses. That is a message we have been saying for years, but no one listened. Now they are. That is good.
Unfortunately we focus on and repeat the most negative sound bites, which gets our blood boiling and we wind up going at each other.
I think the loud noises coming from the RWNJ indicates they are worried. As they get more worried we will hear more news and sound bites designed to divide us. We must not succumb to this tactic.
And yes, the movement has nefarious beginnings. But I think most ppl in the streets are not aware of this. Their presence is genuine. Some may blame Obama, most don’t. I know the unions are most solidly dems and all these nurses, pilots, machine workers and other unions will be able to use this movement wisely, unless we turn them against it.
I also want to again repeat; Know the difference between genuine concern or disagreement and divisive comments. Divisive comments tend to harp on small phrases repeated ad hominem via #mediafail until everyone is agreeing in righteous indignation. From reactions here I believe most know that already but it bears repeating.
Please, our paths may be different but our goals are the same more or less. One of the ways the republicans calvanized different factions was they had a common anti-abortion theme among groups who were suspicious of each other.
We have a unifying theme here of wall st versus the middle class. Let’s not do that Dem thing and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory…..again!
Please , please, please please listen to George Clooney he was right we at TOD are on the same page
we support PBO all the way and respect our opinions it’s O.K we are in this together press on.
I haven’t really commented on the OWS protests, mainly because I’m a bit of a skeptic with most things, especially things that are as non-specific as the OWS protest currently seem to be, I have nothing against them, but I’m not totally 100% comfortable supporting them, so I’ve chosen to just not comment on threads or post about them. That has been hard to do, since it seems that a good number of the blogs I frequent is all OWS all the time. I’ve found that I’ve subconsciously stopped frequenting some of those blogs I used to because even though I’m cynical about the OWS movement and I do think something important is happening, BUT there are other just as important things happening as the OWS, like voter suppression laws, the AJA, unemployment, education disparity…etc that I would also like to discuss, but OWS is kinda pushing those things off the page.
I’m not bothered by the OWS protest, nor am I bothered by all the talk about the OWS protest, but I am bothered by the sense that some of the more sympathetic OWS supporters are going around and making it seem like those of us who are real concerned skeptics about the OWS protest, are somehow “against” the protests, and that couldn’t be farthest from the case. I think things are happening, but I’ve been focusing my attention on those other things, and just keeping abreast of the reports from OWS. Right now, I’m just not feeling them, but doesn’t mean I don’t think they are important.
With all due respect – I have said and continue to say that unless I have evidence to the contrary, I will treat OWS as a third party movement. On one of the threads yesterday, you asked me specific questions about where did I get the “third party” from. I provided you links to the original OWS creators’ website (Adbusters.org). I also cited where the magazine editor (KALLE LASN) and company founder specifically stated his desire to form a third party which was separate from either the Democrats or Republicans. I also showed you where he said that the Tea Party had a “promising start” in holding corporations accountable, but that more was needed.
I notice that you did not refute or challenge any of my responses to your questions, or links provided. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps you did not even get a chance to read my responses to your questions. Here is a link to the thread in which our exchange took place.
Now you stated that “you are afraid of what is happening to our site.” What exactly are you afraid of? That we are unequivocal in our support for President Obama? That we are highly focused and dedicated towards getting him re-elected in 2012? In case you aren’t aware, the name of this site is “The OBAMA Diary.” That should tell you that this is a site that is 100% pro-Obama and yes you SHOULD expect to find people who are 100% supportive of this President, and skeptical of others or organizations who are vague about their intentions, attitudes and level of support for him.
In the earlier thread that I linked, you spoke very highly of Jesse LaGreca (DKOS Blogger) as someone who represented OWS, and said that his message was apolitical. You also implied in your comment above that “no one from OWS listens to or cares about Cornel West.” Really? Because I have a link to a DKOS diary written by Jesse LaGreca, who spoke of meeting Cornel West who gave a speech at one of the OWS gatherings. The diary in fact was ABOUT CORNEL WEST’s SPEECH, and LaGreca was extremely impressed by that speech. In fact there was a second diary from this same blogger that featured Cornel West in relation to the OWS protests.
Cornel West is well known for his antagonism towards the President, and had recently went on some endeavor to mount a primary against the President. So maybe I’m a little less than comfortable with the idea of OWS embracing someone like West. West is certainly not “apolitical.” Neither is Michael Moore who has also called for a primary to our President, and who was also praised and featured in a different diary by the same Jesse LaGreca.
After someone asked why weren’t the OWS protesters trying to pass the AJA bill, or supporting Warren’s vetted nominee for the consumer bureau protections, you responded by saying that because LaGreca was “apolitical” he would not and should not be talking about Liz Warren, or President Obama since they are both involved in politics. So then why is Senator Bernie Sanders featured front and center in one of LaGreca’s OWS diaries? They claimed they didn’t want it to be political, but they are honored to have Sanders as an ally in OWS?
Furthermore, in the last several months to a year, all three of these individuals have been highly critical of the President, and have had very little to say about the Republicans. So I guess you can understand where I’m coming from when I express concern and extraordinary skepticism about this movement.
Hopefruit you are so on the job, thank you! Again I certainly was unaware of this info.. and shines a brighter light (for me) on Mr. LaGreca.. although I knew of him somewhat from dkos. Yep just too many questions about this whole thing.
hopefruit, I want to be like you and utaustin, You two take no prisoners and got the facts to back them up. Well stated and documented. Listen up, lurkers and deniers, and anyone else (no offense to the commenters here), hopefruit and utaustin, they got skills and will rag on you if you don’t come correct. Mercy
Thank you so much for those pesky facts. I’m not a joiner by nature. So there’s no way I’m jumping on the OWS bandwagon without knowing what their agenda is. Besides where some folks reside I just don’t want to be.
Bravo, hopefruit! Thanks for expressing so well what I ,and many others on this site, think and believe. The people at OWS can’t have it both ways. They can’t expect our support: when they prominently feature vocal bashers of President Obama; pretend to be neutral, nonpatisan, and “apolitical,” in this highly partisan environment, when the teabag-Republicans are sayin NO to everything President Obama proposes to help the poor and middle class workers; or are totaly silent when it comes to supporting the President’s jobs bill aimed at putting millions of unemployed Americans to work as well continue to provide unemployment insurance for those still unable to find jobs. Speaking for myself I just can’t enthusiastically embrace this conflicted amorphous movement that has not clearly stated its goals. I just want to know what the movement hopes to accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished by massive mobilization of voters to vote against the enablers of Wall Street in Congress and the Presidency. Many of us on this site have been upfront and honest about our committed support for President Obama. Many of us have also been very clear that we prefer pragmatic and concrete solutions to problems rather than the constant complaints that undermine efforts to make progress in addressing the immediate needs of people. We also prefer programs that lay the foundation for future and more meaningful change. I understand and share many of the frustrations by those OWS movement. I can even go along with the tactic of protesting on Wall Street, if it is one of the tactics used that include mobilizing voters to elect people who support the cause of neutralizing the power of corporate America. But simply making OWS the end while neglecting the importance of electing a government to rein corporate power, seems to me to be self defeating.
You and I are the same age. Yes there are some here (including myself) that suspicous of this group and there intentions to bring down the president when he is trying his best to make things better only to be stopped by the RW GOTP. My concern is that they are not protesting the names of Boehner, McConnell, Cantor, etc. They seem to only call out the Presidents name and are showing disrespect.
OWS is very diverse with hispanic, black, asian, young and old. Whoever is seeing very few black and saying it’s not diverse I would disagree with that. However, I would like to know more about what they want and how they are going to get what they want politically. I saw Jesse La Greca on CNN Sunday and they tried very hard to get him to say whether he was made at the President. I think what he said was fair that he wanted the politicians to LISTEN to them. He was not advocating for one side or the other, just whichever side that would come to them and LISTEN. I am just wondering if this is what the group wants, why did they turn away Rep John Lewis? I understand he was not mad and maybe they had other speakers and he could not stick around….then bad on him. He should have stuck around.
Jax6655, school us here….tell us what is it that OWS is trying to achieve now that they have gotten the media’s attention. Do they want it to continue to grow until it is in all 50 states and territories? Do they want the pols to come to them? what?
I am in no way a representative of OWS so I can’t school you. I am basically concerned about the dismissal out of hand by some commentors on this site. I don’t think that we can say that because they don’t 1. actively support AJA, 2. protest Boehner, Cantor, et al, or 3. think the movement is diverse [wrong] that they are not to be trusted.
Also, OWS has gotten the media’s attention, but the people that they’re allowing to speak are not necessarily representative of the movement. It seems to represent discontent and then manifest itself . . . however.
What are they trying to achieve? I think we’ll have to look to YouTube and other INDEPENDENT sources to determine that for ourselves. MSM is trying to spin it for the 1%. And to piss off folks who frequent sites like these. Which is why I am pushing back.
I neither support or disparage OWS, I’m just saying there’s more to this movement than the MSM is telling us. And that it’s spun in large part by forces who are trying to co-opt it for their own purposes. Like the Tea Party. Except it won’t work this time.
Saw this coming from a mile away. Always does…like clockwork.
As I was explaining the other day, I feel this is a “divide and conquer” tactic now with the MegaMedia and Repub operatives. I’ll give the last 48 hours in the comments of this blog alone as more evidence. Curious why you’d get so insulting toward many readers here as you did above, especially since my comments, and the comments from others to you the other day were respectful for the most part. Just honest difference of opinion about a group.
We have a major piece of legislation and a nominee for the Conumer Protection Bureau happening RIGHT NOW, and it needs every bit of support and activism possible to help our President.
I asked this one question many times the other day here and received no answer, including from you, Jax. I have seen no mention of this question in the MegaMedia I’ve seen cover this OWS thing. It is the most fundamental question of all this and it’s being avoided completely as far I can tell…
Why now? Why right when we have these historic legislative battles right before us does the supposed “movement” spring up and take all the oxygen from what the President is trying to do, including here on this blog. Why now?
Can any OWS supporters here imagine with me all this energy and time expended upon OWS instead spent on Pass This Bill. Where do you think support for AJA would be right now if all these people were out there chanting Pass This Bill? Seems like a fair question.
JAX6655, I have become confused as to why OWS’s message keeps changing. The first one in NY was towards Wall Street and in support of 99% – was ok. Then groups began to pop up in various city/states. Like the one we have here in Los Angeles. A reporter from our local television station, KTLA asked one of the campers (at our City Hall), what was the message and what would it take for the campers to leave the lawn of City Hall, and the guy stated that the message had not been clearly defined and he wasn’t sure what it would take because he didn’t know who the leader(s) were. Now, they’ve been camped out on the lawn for a couple of weeks and he doesn’t know who the leader is and what’s the message?
How can I support this?
I’m all for supporting a message – like the one’s our President presents for AJA and health care, jobs, voter rights.
I’ve seen this video. It’s very powerful. It’s amazing that the lefties who bow to Bill Clinton never bring up the absolutely devastating effects of the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act. The financial crash of 2008 can be traced back to that horrendous legislative act.
Al is on board with the occupation, so I assume many here who like and respect him might rethink their opinion. Sounds like the same with Melissa Harris-Perry.
I love and respect Rev Al and Melissa Harris-Perry. However, besides their words on MSNBC, nothing has changed from from my vantage point between this afternoon when I was highly skeptical to now when I’m still highly skeptical.
I always leave open the possibility that I am wrong about OWS, and there is nothing that would relieve me more than to find out that I was in fact mistaken.
Actually dotster, even though I like and respect Rev. Al Sharpton, I watched the segment with MHP and Van Jones and I’m still not rethinking my opinion on OWS. None of them could articulate the philosophy of OWS. None of them could articulate in a nutshell exactly what OWS stood for. None of them could articulate what OWS’s mandate is. None of them could articulate concrete measures OWS could take to make sure whatever message they eventually come up with could reach the halls of congress. So, nope; I’m not 100% sold on OWS and I’m still watching them with very very leery eyes.
Not biting. Just because Rev Al is for it, doesn’t mean I am. He’s my go-to person of radio for info and championing PBO’s agenda. Other than that, I think about this a bit more skeptically. Who knows, maybe Rev Al is just feeling this all out for himself, and will form a more concrete opinion on the OWS. I think this also helps him get his agenda across for the march on October 16, so hopefully some of those “enlightened” folks protesting God knows what will join him for a specific agenda, and that is jobs, which is the number one concern for most Americans these days.
Just because Rev Al is for the “occupation” (was that a put-down because that’s what he called it – Wall Street “Occupation instead of “Occupy”) doesn’t mean that because I respect him and Harris-Perry is enough to persuade me. I don’t agree with Rev Al nor Harris-Perry about everything they say. I disagreed with Harris-Perry’s opinion on Lawrence O’Donnell’s question to Herman Cain – I had no problem with it. So for me, two endorsements are not enough.
I could not bear to read it cause it’s inside the beltway bullshit and does not reflect how the people feel about PBO.
Just wait until he really starts campaigning. UGH.
That is what bothers them the most, he doesn’t attend their cocktail parties, and he didn’t invite Sally whatshername to the WH. It really gets them that POTUS and FLOTUS invite the children in DC to the WH and like to spend time with real people instead of beltway gossips!!
W didn’t invite Sally and her crowd over and they didn’t like it, but his reason included having to be asleep by 8 or 9 p.m., after he ate his pretzels. Or else they were at Crawford.
I don’t remember the Clintons out carousing much with the D.C. social crowd, either.
His close friends are old Chgo friends. They are the ones he vacatons with, golfs with, and Camp Davids with. He trusts them. And President Obama did try in the beginning, inviting Congress people over for games, some Repubs too, and like they said, the Wed. cocktail parties. But there was no reciprocation to all that kindness, just more obstruction and false slander. And I think he just decided to heck with them, and just kept pressing on. The one thing I will agree with in that dumb report was that he could use some surrogates speaking on his behalf. I have been so disappointed and disgusted that more Democrats have not stepped forward to support him on important initiatives. And he will need Dems to be agressive in getting air time to support his campaign and to defend his policies. So often it does seem like it’s Obama or nobody selling his policies and having to shoulder the whole burden by himself.
Because for years it has been all about “THEM”. Remember, the president was only in the state senate two years and in the Senate for two years so he has not been soiled with “the business as usual” crap that they have endured. They need Wall Street so they won’t have to campaign very hard. They can collect money and dole out favors after they get re-elected.
Even if PBO has ever wanted to socialize with these miscreants, how the heck does he have the time? Look at how little time he is afforded for his only family. Two wars, other conflicts, ever-present homeland security issues, a recalcitrant economy, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, horrilbe congresscritters constantly obstructing his attempts, mid term elections with his input, the msm 24/7 abuse. All this besides the many diplomatic occasions as President. They try to say he’s always campaigning, and actually he’s never had the luxury of not doing so as he is his best representative. I thank God for him and will not take any shit thrown at him from anybody. Anyone should just put their self in his place for one day. Yes, he is the President and yes, he did run for this job, but he had millions supporting him in that effort, and now finds thousands abandoning him. Luckily the number is comparatively small, but in this climate, he needs us even more than before. So, he has no time for the schmoozing, except for with his die hard supporters. Why waste time on rubbish ?
AND LETS NOT FORGET…MANY IN THE DEM PARTY ARE PISSED AT THE PRESIDENT FOR NOT ASKING for THEIR PERMISSION TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT…THEY ALL WERE FOR HILARY(at least 1/2 of them) he was suppose to wait his turn…UGH!!!!
Not only that, but he actually likes to spend time with his kids and family instead of hanging out at cocktail parties. He prefers trying to have a normal grounded life like he had before. Plus Obama has always stuck me as a man who likes simple pleasures such as reading, tv, nibbling on his favorite foods, enjoying a round of golf, to spending nights at somebody’s cocktail party. And he knows he’ll be going back to Chicago in a few years, so why not keep up his ties?
PBO doesn’t frequent their ridiculous cocktail weenie parties so their fee fees are hurt. Waaaah. They are complete bores and do nothing to contribute to the progress of our nation, so of course he doesn’t associate with their ilk. Not enough hours in the day to bide his time with empty social climbers. PFFFFTTT!! Screw them.
OKay. Settling in with Rev. Al re: the OWS movement. He’s making it plain. In typical Al fashion, he’s beating the repugs about the head and shoulders.
Wisconsin had a clear goal, with a clear step-by-step plan on how to achieve it. Tents were set up at the protests for registering voters and providing information for the recalls, and they’ve shifted that now after the success of the legislative recalls, to the governor.
Wisconsin was the opposite of “apolitical” and “unfocused.” They were and are laser-focused on the politics. Nothing like OWS, who are actually hurting the chances of good legislation getting passed by sucking up all the energy and media time.
With all due respect to Van Jones, having “moral clarity” means nothing for the poor and unemployed if you have not mobilized political power to try to address their real needs. Even Jesus, with all his moral clarity, had to perform miracles, with bread and fish, in order to feed the multitudes of the poor. My fundamental problem with the OWS movement is the lack of specific and practical goals that are to be achieved as a result of occupying Wall Street. Why occupy Wall Street and not Capital Hill? Or, if you must occupy Wall Street, for some psychic gratification, why not occupy both Wall Street and Capital Hill? How is the occupation of Wall Street going to help ease unemployment? Will the occupation of Wall Street force Congress to pass the AJA, which includes the extension of Unemployment insurance set to expire at the end of the year? Is the occupation of Wall Street aimed at putting teachers fire fighters, police and construction workers back to work? Or is the main goal of OWS the shaming of corporate capitalists to induce them to turn against the evils of corporate capitalism and become “born again” socialists? Obviously, if OWS is all about expressing anger and frustration about the evils of corporate capitalism I am all for it. So long as this expression is not seen as the solution to the economic problems, both short and long term, that are facing the country. And, so long as it is not seen as a substitute for political mobilization aimed at preventing Republicans from regaining total power of the U.S. government by controlling all the three branches. Obviously, if OWS degenerates into an Obama bash feast, then I should absolutely nothing to do with it.
I just got chills behind what Melissa Hart Perry just said about Americans using their physical bodies in public spaces because it’s all they have left to speak against the power of money.
Anyone who actually thinks Black people would abandon President Obama need to have their heads examined. Black people are fiercely loyal Democrats and after seeing how President Obama has been treated, it strengthens their resolve to stand with him. We just have to make sure they get to the polls and vote in 2012.
Van Jones and MHP on Reverend Al discussing OWS and making excellent points.
I think folks here need to think twice about dismissing OWS, just because a few are anti Obama. I’m sure with the Civil Rights movement of the 60s, folks were against JFK because he wasn’t fully onboard but ultimately Civil Rights Act got passed because people joined and supported the cause.
The Republicans are doing enough to diminish these movements, what the heck are those on here doing by HELPING them? I thought we were supposed to be AGAINST the Republicans?
We need to steer the OWS in the right direction; we’ve got the means to do so, with OFA. OFA knows how to organize and drive the message.
It’s OK to express legit concerns, but to dismiss these OWS protests entirely makes us no different from the Republicans.
As much as I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic about the OWS movement, I can truly understand why others wouldn’t be. I can understand why they would be suspicious of it, and why the would dismiss it. Time will tell, and it will all shake out in the end.
It’s okay — there’s enough work to be done. The AJA, Rev. Al’s March, OFA, voter registration, OWS…… whatever floats your boat. We don’t all have to agree .
I’m with you, PJ. We don’t all have to agree. I also don’t think there are too many who are totally dismissing OWS, because not too many of us know what it’s all about yet – with the details’ being so scarce. I’m staying very cautiously optimistic, but I’m going to learn for myself whether or not I can support it. To feel comfortable giving my [incredibly important - ha ha] support, I just really don’t want to take someone else’s word for their goals.
Will they protest in front of congress? Will the protest transferred to voting booth? This whole discussion about OWS is making me depressed and its my birthday.
I haven’t really commented on the OWS protests, mainly because I’m a bit of a skeptic with most things, especially things that are as non-specific as the OWS protest currently seem to be, I have nothing against them, but I’m not totally 100% comfortable supporting them, so I’ve chosen to just not comment on threads or post about them. That has been hard to do, since it seems that a good number of the blogs I frequent is all OWS all the time. I’ve found that I’ve subconsciously stopped frequenting some of those blogs I used to because even though I’m cynical about the OWS movement and I do think something important is happening, BUT there are other just as important things happening as the OWS, like voter suppression laws, the AJA, unemployment, education disparity…etc that I would also like to discuss, but OWS is kinda pushing those things off the page.
I’m not bothered by the OWS protest, nor am I bothered by all the talk about the OWS protest, but I am bothered by the sense that some of the more sympathetic OWS supporters are going around and making it seem like those of us who are real concerned skeptics about the OWS protest, are somehow “against” the protests, and that couldn’t be farthest from the case. I think things are happening, but I’ve been focusing my attention on those other things, and just keeping abreast of the reports from OWS. Right now, I’m just not feeling them, but doesn’t mean I don’t think they are important.
But, for the #ows folk, I just want to realize that if they achieved only two outcomes – repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley and overturn Citizens United – as a result of achieving #1 and 2, they would have an enormous impact on precisely that which apparently concerns them.
It would help if they realized that the reason(s) ‘Wall Street’ is the problem is not because it’s actions are illegal but because Pres Clinton made what were illegal activities, legitimate irrespective of how unethical, immoral they are.
Thank You Bobfr, “KNOWLEDGE IS POWER” and apparently some of the OWS protesters can benefit from your wisdom and insight. You are doing an amazing job of pushing back and providing the facts. I really admire your focused messages. We are so lucky to have you here.
Posted upthread:
I haven’t really commented on the OWS protests, mainly because I’m a bit of a skeptic with most things, especially things that are as non-specific as the OWS protest currently seem to be, I have nothing against them, but I’m not totally 100% comfortable supporting them, so I’ve chosen to just not comment on threads or post about them. That has been hard to do, since it seems that a good number of the blogs I frequent is all OWS all the time. I’ve found that I’ve subconsciously stopped frequenting some of those blogs I used to because even though I’m cynical about the OWS movement and I do think something important is happening, BUT there are other just as important things happening as the OWS, like voter suppression laws, the AJA, unemployment, education disparity…etc that I would also like to discuss, but OWS is kinda pushing those things off the page.
I’m not bothered by the OWS protest, nor am I bothered by all the talk about the OWS protest, but I am bothered by the sense that some of the more sympathetic OWS supporters are going around and making it seem like those of us who are real concerned skeptics about the OWS protest, are somehow “against” the protests, and that couldn’t be farthest from the case. I think things are happening, but I’ve been focusing my attention on those other things, and just keeping abreast of the reports from OWS. Right now, I’m just not feeling them, but doesn’t mean I don’t think they are important.
This is what we need. Efforts on multiple fronts, because that is how we are being attacked by the Koch Machine. If we all push from different standpoints we can move that big ball up the hill. The key is not to de-legitimize those that take a different path.
Let’s make them welcomed to the fold in whatever form they present and appreciate their efforts as we want them to appreciate ours. United we stand
lamh31 – I think you’ve nicely captured what I’ve been trying to formulate in my own mind and with my own words.
And since there are plenty of folks concentrating on the OWS protest, I’ll concentrate on the other important things, while keeping abreast of OWS activities … even if that means tomorrow morning I have to again contact one of my two Senators, who’s that dreaded Republican Kirk.
Does anyone know of any groups that may have buses going from Maine/Mass? There were last time before the cancellation, but I haven’t heard of any new ones. Any leads welcomed
I thought this quote was spot on from a participant in the Indy OWS demonstration: “I’m not anti-capitalist,” said Hank Kratky, 50, Pendleton. “Is it wrong to acquire wealth? Absolutely not. People deserve what they earn through the sweat of their brow or their intelligence. What I object to is the cloistering of wealth and the systematic gaming of the rules to keep wealth in fewer and fewer hands.”
It was in an Indy Star story on their website. I didn’t link because the comments are hideous, as the rt. gets more and more anxious and more and more hostile toward the movement.
Sorry to say that’s my city and newspaper. Hideous RW garbage every day. Daniels is our gov, who they wanted to run for president but his wife wouldn’t let him. He’s the one who was Bush’s first OMB director and squandered the Clinton surplus. He’s not even 5 feet tall and an egomaniac. Ugh.
Then it is surprising they posted that. Maybe the protests are getting thru; Wall St. Bad! Many will still want to blame PBO but the anger is shifting to wall st and their enablers. Our job is to keep highlighting the steps PBO has taken to rein in wall st and how the rethugs keep carrying their water.
Stream of consciousness here on OWS…..I think these demonstrations are a buildup of angst and anxiety that has been seething and fermenting since the election of 2000….now that may seem farfetched, but many of us were thorougly disgusted at the election being stolen and decided by the Supreme Court. But, we followed Al Gore, and “for the good of the country” went along with it. Then came 9/11, and to be good patriots we had to support GWB. Then came the Iraq War….some protests took place then, but they couldn’t get any traction or news coverage. We were still told to “support the troops” and by exension GWB. Then came the stock market crash, and the results weren’t seen immediately…we elected president Obama and expected him to make everything right. He is one person….this mess is too much for one person and one term. . He discovered AFTER the election, how false the reports were and how much worse off we were. Then came the health care fight….then the horrible tea parties, then the election of last November, and all the time, this anger and frustration has been seething. It is what I think is an inchoate anger….not truly defined, yet. I think, and hope it will be. Now the far right…Glenn Beck, etc. are attacking the OWS people…illustrating exactly what they are protesting against.
At all the points I’ve mentioned, there should have been protests, but the fear kept coming from the Bush admin, and we kept being told to be good patriots and support the president. FINALLY, that pressure has been lifted, and we see what has been seething underneath for at least 10 years. Rev. Al is down among them, he will find out what is truly going on, and I have no doubt that the president has people there too.
I trust Rev. Al and other ministers to find out what is really going on. I’m hoping this energy will be focused on passing the jobs bill and electing solid Democrat senators and reps. These people feel powerless…and they need to be shown that they’re fighting the Koch Brothers and Karl Rove, not the President.
I’m with you on trusting Rev. Al on this. So far, he is in support of OWS. He said he is going to go back and spend a night there, bringing some of his clergy friends. We shall see how it all pans out. If anybody can get to the bottom of something, Rev. can.
And Rev. Al is one of the few I trust at this point. In fact, he’s the only one on MSNBC I now trust – and thank God he has that show! He helps me keep my sanity, daily.
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@OWS, if you can achieve 2 Goals you will have enormous impact: Elect a Congress that repeals Gramm-Leach-Bliley & overturns Citizens United
Our4thEstate Bobfr
IF us 99%ers really want to scare the oligarchs we’d focus on repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley, Overturn Citizens United & 50% Capital Gains Tax
lol Good idea, but I think I’ll refrain. Don’t want them using my pennies for nefarious ads. But I will drop some money off at a homeless shelter and let them know it is in solidarity for the 99%
Book details American letters to Obama White House
(Reuters) – Every evening President Barack Obama is handed what he calls his “homework packet,” a thin folder of 10 letters from the American people offering him an unvarnished view of the citizens he governs.
Obama asked for the unvetted correspondence on the second day of his tenure and has used them to help shape policy and to enliven his speeches with the stories of real people.
The correspondence, featured in the book “Ten Letters,” shows that America is struggling.
“The one way where Obama still has some intimate interaction with ordinary American people is through these 10 letters,” author Eli Saslow told Reuters in an interview.
“This is his one authentic place of interaction about what is going on in people’s lives,” said Saslow, who has covered the Obama White House for The Washington Post.
His book is published this week by Doubleday.
[snip]
Saslow said Obama told him, “The letters sometimes make him feel so powerless because these problems are so real and urgent and desperate and the act of governing is so slow that he sometimes recognizes there is nothing he can do to help.”
Saslow said Obama admitted that on a few occasions he had written a check or made a phone call to help fix someone’s problem because he felt it was all he could do.
The letters Obama receives six days a week reflect the overall mail. For example, if 20 percent of letters are from military families, he will receive two such letters in his daily packet and if 50 percent of the letters were about being jobless, five of his 10 letters will be about that topic.
Similarly, if two thirds have a negative sentiment and one third are upbeat, that will be reflected.
Most of the letters detail problems and suffering in people’s lives. Joblessness, foreclosures and economic woes make up a huge portion of the correspondence.
Still, the book is not without hope. It opens with a woman who wrote to Obama after she lost her job, her boyfriend’s business went bust and the bank foreclosed on their house. Then, days after she lost her health benefits she found out she was pregnant with her second child.
The book ends with her selling Obama’s response to an autograph dealer for $7,000 and reading his response to her one last time. “Things will get better,” Obama wrote.
Thanks so much for this story Meta. This part absolutely melted my heart “Saslow said Obama admitted that on a few occasions he had written a check or made a phone call to help fix someone’s problem because he felt it was all he could do.” What a decent, kind-hearted, wonderful human being we have for a President. Stories like this make me fight even harder for his re-election and make me fight rightwingers and liberals who want to tarnish his progressive and transformative legislative record.
When I read this, I couldn’t help but shed a few tears….
“Saslow said Obama admitted that on a few occasions he had written a check or made a phone call to help fix someone’s problem because he felt it was all he could do.”
America has no clue what a good man we have…God Bless him
He has a heart the size of Manhattan. Such a dear, compassionate person and I don’t think we’ve seen this sort of thing in the WH in our lifetimes. We live in a very crazy cold world and I will always praise him for this.
Good evening everyone. I have been reading the comments all day and I have to say although I agree with some of them I have to say I disagree that we have to completely be against OWS or the CBC. I do not like some of the things SOME of the people with OWS and in the CBC have said but I for one refuse to completely disregard the CBC. Not everyone in the CBC is against PBO and they have done some good for the AA community(and yes I am AA). Also I agree we should see what direction OWS will take but as of now I think it is working for the Prez. With those dumbass greedy repubs calling them mobs and the one guy saying that they need to work with the Prez I don’t think we should completely discount them. Also I will never be completely against the CBC yeah there are alot of old heads that need to be replaced but I refuse to agree to the dismanteling of an organization that has done a lot for AAs and who I know will continue to.
agree, I read most every comment and I’ve rarely seen absolutes applied here by folks.. lotsa wait and see and as to the CBC, we clearly called out the actual culprits- primarily Maxine Waters.
That’s the point I’ve been attempting to make, not to completely discredit OWS just because a few of them bash the President and want a third party. This blog likes to talk about how it’s bad to let a few bad apples speak for everyone, yet here people are taking the words of a few crackpots in the movement and taking them at face value.
And as you pointed out, they’ve got the right wing calling them mobs and whatnot, which is useful to President Obama because the right wing gets weakened and we need the right wing to be weakened in order to win. The right wing Teabags won last year because we didn’t fight back enough against them and we virtually allowed the loud crackpots on the left to take a crap on the accomplishments of President Obama and the Democrats.
While I’ll be honest to admit that there are crackpots in the group that seem to be against Obama and calling for third parties, as I pointed out, I would take them with a grain of salt… for all we know, they may be right wing plants posing as third party voters to shut the movement down, there’s at least one account of an internet blogger essentially pulling a Brietbart/O Keefe style stunt and posing as a disgruntled Obama supporter at OWS that I read from Think Progress.
I have no problems with anyone being skeptical of this movement, but be skeptical with the truth and facts. That is all.
We are skeptical of OWS with truth and facts. You just refuse to even acknowledge the majority of our concerns and the many facts we’ve thrown your way and keep chastising us for not jumping in blindly into the menagerie of some crackpots and a few meaning people (hopefully). We’re all thought to use critical thinking skills but you on the other hand are leveling disappointment at us because we won’t participate in you and others forced groupthink mentality. Until they get a concrete message you should not castigate ANYONE of us for looking at them with a leery and wary eye.
Don’t know if anyone posted this, but because of “ObamaCares” we added 44,000 new jobs in healthcare industry last month! Tell me why that’s bad? http://www.politicususa.com/en/obamacare-heathcare-booming Also, TPV has a great piece up by Deaniac that explains a few things about why this administration isn’t perp walking those crooks and liars on Wall St…..it’s a MUST READ:)
Was going to post this. It’s excellent. Shoots down all the PL outrage over the bank fiasco. Pres Obama had nothing to do with any of it. Seeing how many Dems supported the deregulation, I think also explains some of the wishy washy support the President gets from his own party. They are GUILTY! and he is not. so lets ptry and project our guilt off on Pres Obama. Sherrod Brown, Mr. Holier Than Though Progressive, voted to repeal regulation. How in the hell can they criticize Pres Obama on anything? Cowards and liars. And I mean the Dems.
We need to tweet this and remind them of their responsibility for this mess.
Thanks for posting this ds. When Jake “The Snarl” Tapper asked President Obama about Wall Street prosecutions, I thought to myself how many American realize that it was just a free for all during the Bush administration. No regulations, no accountability. I loved the way he responded to the question. He made such a good point about there being no regulations and that Wall Street’s actions were unethical and immoral. That’s why we need Dodd-Frank and the CFPB. And that is why I keep saying the OWL crowd should be demanding the implementation of Dodd-Frank and the CFPB. The focus should be on the congress. This post from TPV is just music to my ears. It needs to be circulated far and wide.
Whatever OWS is about or is going to be about, at this point in time I’m laser focused on presidential politics and my local election. I’m working to re-elect President Obama and am not interested in moving off that subject for the next year. I do believe that people are suffering due to Wall St excess, but I don’t feel the impulse to talk about promoting anarchy to end capitalism or creating a third party. Ultimately, I fail to see how that is particularly useful or relevant right now. President Obama has been a remarkable president and he has my full and complete support. I hope whatever the OWS movement is accomplishing is helpful toward our OFA goals but I’m not counting on it because I haven’t seen any such demonstration or heard any such declaration. I’m also very turned off by what I’ve seen of their process. But I wish them the best if they hope to change what’s wrong with our financial systems. Whatever comes of that will have to make its way through Congress, which as we have all witnessed, isn’t a piece of cake.
Brilliantly said Meta. Right now they’re just another media distraction. I’m focused and concerned with making sure the senate passes AJA, that more and more people are aware of the benefits of President Obama’s AJA, that AJA could create up to 1.9 million jobs. I’m more focused with working with working with College Democrats at my school to spread the message of how AJA is beneficial to Texas. I’m more interested in championing local Democratic candidates and making sure that Texas turns blue brick by painstaking brick. I’m more interested in doing something concretely proactive rather than chanting all day about anarchy and creating a third party. 2012 is too crucial for me and we so badly need President Obama and the Dems to win or else these OWS folks will really have something to whine about when republicans destroy our whole infrastructure again.
I’m in total agreement. I can understand their frustration, but it would be unwise to put my full weight behind it, without knowing where it’s going. I have nothing against those who support them, or are at least more open than I – I have people in my family that are feeling the OWS movement big time. I’m just not there at this point. We shall see. I’m just trying to have patience, question them, and focus on getting our president re-elected and keep the Senate Democratically controlled, and flip the House.
Tweety and other pundits and longtime insders have something wrong with them! Now President Obama has “People Problem” because get this: he does not “do the back slapping of politicians when thet make a difficult vote, …., spends very little time on the ropeline shaking hands, … sticks with a few tight-knight longterm friends…., likes to retire to his residence reading policy papers and spending time with his family rather than hang out with donor and elected members … unlike Bill Clinton”
what a load of crap!!! last week he was called “debonaire (spelling?), exotic and aloof” and now he has a “people problem”.
It does not occur to them that President Obama avoids people who do not understand that they are elected to serve people rather than their donors and lobbyist
I tweeted Tweety (ha!) some photos of people loving on Pres Obama when he was out pushing the jobs bill. Photos with people hugging him, photos with kids. They are a bunch of liars. Do they think we haven’t seen the coverage of the President shaking hands and greeting people? Do they think we haven’t seen how much time he and Michelle spent greeting people in Moneygall and how much they were loved there?
And they forget how PBO when he first took office had Wednesday get together for Congress and he had lunch with the media too. They didn’t appreciate any of it. Lied on him then and said awful things. Rs obstructed anyway.
They do not deserve to be in his presence if you ask me and certainly not part of his inner circle. And the man works harder than any of them ever will. What makes them think he wants to spend his free time with a bunch of liars and greedy pundits instead of his precious family?
These people with their lies are just too much. I am so sick of the lies.
Hello everyone, I’ve been missing In action for the past few days, but I sure did miss you Guys. My Son Is visiting me here In West Palm Beach, he’s from from New Hampshire, and really , we’ve just been enjoying each other’s company, spending lots of quality time together, It’s all good I just want to give a shout out to everyone, to let you know that I’m still among the living, Thank God so take care everyone and have a good one. My Son will be leaving on Saturday I’m trying to enjoy every day, and each moment while he’s here.
I did that with a daughter a couple weeks ago. They may grow up but they’ll always be our kids. I actually like mine as just nice people to be around. It sounds like it’s the same for you. Enjoy your visit.
The head of the American Federation of Teachers, Randi Weingarten, was on with Rev. Al tonight (I’m watching my recording), and did a masterful job in support of President Obama and the “Occupy” movement. The first thing she said was that passing the AJA is a no-brainer.
Yes, I think they have a good and long-standing association. Believe she’ll be in D.C. with him this weekend, too. She certainly is passionate – something sorely needed, along with all of us who are in PBO’s corner!
You’re welcome,Tien! I don’t pay any attention to what all the pundits and talking heads have to say…they always think that what they say is somehow relevant, and it hardly ever is. They all hold themselves and their opinions in MUCH higher regard than I do….thank goodness that PBO keeps the listening of these bozos to a bare minimum.They are giants only in their OWN MINDS.To me, they’re just about useless.
Rachel Maddow did a great segment tonight on the beltway media giving the GOP a pass. It’s not a disconnect, the media is just looking the other way and giving them cover. I’ll try to post it when it is available.
This is my prediction for OWS: As the general elections nears and the Repub candidate is revealed, a lot of those involved in OWS will be coming home or turning to the Democratic party. As Pres. Obama goes up against his Republican opponent, the answer will be clear about who is on which side. Pres. Obama and his team will be touting their accomplishments day in and day out and the people will hear. He will be going all over the country and the people will know. So don’t worry about a third party or the professional left. Neither one can touch the dedication and discipline of OFA. The Tea Party outflanked the left but they can’t touch the true grassroots organizational skills of OFA. How could anyone form a third party from OWS if they don’t want to be lead or vote or get a universal message or list of demands? Pffffft……fuggedaboutit.
I also want to push back on those who don’t understand why some people are skeptical. It is perfectly OK to have doubts about any movements that just pops up out of nowhere. Or seemed to have popped up out of nowhere. It is perfectly OK to ask this group what do they stand for and where do you want this to go? Ron Paul wants to get corporations out of politics too, but he would also deregulate corporations, leave you with no protections and allow them to feast on your bones. We may all believe DC is corrupt but we don’t all believe that Democrats and Republicans are the same or that Pres. Obama is the problem. This is why so many here are hesitant. Its a question of what do we do once we get there. You don’t think these are important concerns to have? I mean, come on. Have any of you ever joined a group, club, or organization thinking that they shared your beliefs and then found out later, sometimes too late, that yeah, not so much? People have been burned before and don’t want to experience that feeling of betrayal or shame again.
I want to support OWS and I hope they start to listen and learn from REAL activists who have gotten their hands dirty like Rep. John Lewis (by the way I read that they regret their decision and want to invite him back), but I already belong to a group whose goals and endgame are clear and they have a leader who I trust and know – The Democratic party and Pres. Obama.
I want to post the interview with John Lewis here so that anyone who has not heard it can decide for themselves. I can see both sides of this but think that if the Democrats don’t jump in then it will leave the field wide open for the libertarians and they are the worst kind of selfish in my opinion. I’m pointing out on twitter that it was Cantor who called them a mob.
Has anyone seen the Occupy The Hood group. they have an article in AlJazeera website today (see the link below). Looks like they have grown fairly quickly and having a rally tomorrow in Detroit because of major cuts in Welfare/aid to Detroit residents. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/10/2011109191019708786.html
I just saw tha Buddy Romer character on L. O’Donnell talking about candidates and money and he had the nerve to quote that bogus article saying that PBO’s small donors were drying up and criticizing the Obama campaign for announcing that they will raise one billion. The fact that he said he doesn’t take certain money is precisely why he is going no further than tv appearances.
Romer the former Democrat turned Libertarian wants to attend the OWS and says that he’s supportive of the movement. Of course he is. Now that he’s already benefited from all the banks he owned, plus the billions he stashed away from his investment firms. The crap about Obama’s small donors is a lie perpetuated by media and others to set up an argument that somehow he’s funded by corporations aka Wall Street. Hence this sudden yet PHONY interest in “taking money out of elections.”
That’s good news Ms. O’Boomer. Hopefully other sites will follow. I saw Russell Simmon on KO tonight. Kayne West has also jumped on the OWS bamdwagon. Since Rev. Al is spending the night there and embracing the movement, hopefully he can express the importance of voting in order to make change. Simmons said that hopefully someone from the Democratic party would start writing legislation addressing some of their needs just by listening to the movement.
Wow, Hopefruit, I had no idea that Kayne was Cornel West’s brother. I may be mistaking him for P. Diddy who I think is now known by another name. I think the photo they showed was P. Diddy. BTW, what name is he known by these days?
I thought I had seen it on Wikipedia or possibly on a blog (which may not have been accurate in the first place). But now I don’t see any evidence outside of speculation that they are biologically related. It’s also possible that because Cornel calls other black men “brother” that someone may have confused the term to mean biologically related!
Nobody knows how long the current Wall Street occupation will last or how exactly the media virus that has sprung from it will mutate and spread. It seems that its own core organizers have set up a cumbersome and easily coopted consensus process by which not even they can steer the ship. And has there been any strategic aforethought whatsoever about timing this thing in harmony with the seasons and the weather? As Ezra Pound knew: “Winter is icumin in Lhude sing Goddamn. Raineth drop and staineth slop, And how the wind doth ramm!” By November or December, Lower Manhattan becomes an icy wind tunnel. “We’re staying here and we’re not leaving” therefore isn’t the sort of declaration that inspires public confidence among the 99 percent. Making promises that one can’t keep: Isn’t that what caused us all to lose faith in Wall Street and the rest of today’s institutions in the first place?
The bolded part reaffirms what hopefruit said about the genesis of this movement. Now that Al has confirmed, I will watch this movement with even more apprehension.
Been gone all day at the eye Dr, and get home to this bit of heavy drama. Good, bad, or indifferent, we’re all have for the same thing. Our love and support for this President. i ,for one, will never question ones motives as long as we’re moving in the same direction.
I am ok with OW protesting..what I don’t agree with is what Van Jones said, “The White House” fell asleep during the 2010 primary. I asked Van Jones, where was he…when PBO was traveling the country asking folks not to give them “The Keys” back and warned them, that if they sat this one out..there will be major consequences and they will undo progress done in his 2.0 years. When Repubs were campaigning they promised Jobs and Jobs, instead the idiots that voted for them, what they got is: Union Busting, Stripping Social Services, We are now fighting Woman’s Rights, Voters Right…Just as PBO warned us.
I am sure the OW demonstrators are mad as hell and mean well…but why not Occupy Congress….were legislation/Laws are passed…While OW hold Wall Street hostage, this rich folks couldn’t give a damn how many people or how many days or nights march out there…..But let it be known that the Republicans are the enemy here..Congress lead by Teaparty Repubs are the one holding the 99% Percent hostage, by not passing the job bill. I guess my question is, Is Wall Street going to give you a Job? Health Care? Fix the street and bridges you’re marching on?
Kasai, I have no problems with OW protesting Wall Street and corporations if that’s really what they’re doing. However, it appears that they are more about airing their grievances with the President and his WH cabinet than anything else – even more than Wall Street per se.
I know Hope, I feel the same way..when they say “They Don’t have Party Affiliation” Yet they quick to bash PBO…it’s troublesome, and it’s not just a few…most of them repeat the same message..
If they knew the difference between a Democrat and Republican, they wouldn’t dump them in the same category, it makes it easier for them to attack PBO
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@VanJones68 Checked the web site. Only mention of Pres Obama & Dems was a ‘hold them accountable’ link. Interesting way to create solidarity
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@VanJones68 IF you want to restrain the oligarchs Re-elect Obama & Turn Congress a Progressive shade of Blue. Are those your goals?
We’ll see how he responds. Last thing America and the world needs is a 2012 version of the 2000 Nader.
I like when we talk like this and challenge each other (with respect of course). No one can rightly call any of us mindless Obots. We are not afraid to speak our minds here, that’s for sure.
I soooooooo agree! I wouldn’t want to hash an issue out with any other group than the TOD Family. This is the best place on the internet, if I may humbly say so myself.
I just have to say, I love the vigorous debate being had on this thread.
Like I said up thread, until more is none I will hold my support, but until then I will be working phone banks here in Ohio, up till 11/08 to get the vote out.
The President put forth a Job Bill…So all that the OW could get a job, a better education, health care, infrastructure, financial reform..and so on.
Why are we having this debate?? Have they Not been hearing or watching PBO traveling around the country fighting for the middle class (99%), So if you want progress and immediate help, I suggest you call congress and Pass the Bill….we can then fight Wall Street…first thing first.
Oh, they’ve heard. Which is why they are not listening now. They want to make their own mark, frame the debate, be heard. Shame they were so silent 2000-2008. Still have my doubts, and wonder how the hell we got this major shift during the mid-terms. Where the hell was everybody then? Ah the heck with this crap. Signing off for tonite, except to say, using that old adage……..shit or get off the pot. That’s for the OWS. Nite all
I don’t care so much for this article because it implies that President Obama’s liberal base is disenchanted with him, which is not true. Poll after poll has shown that President Obama is still supported by well over 75% of liberal democrats. The “disenchanted” folks are those who didn’t really support him even in 2008. How can the article claim that African Americans are disillusioned based on Cornel West’s rantings? Was West ever gung ho about President Obama? Please.
It is healthy -to a degree. I miss the more serene /escapist times I used to spend here. Used to go to BWD for healthy debate then here to chill out. Alas. Things evolve. This is still my favorite site on the web.
Well enough angst for me for one day. I think I’ll go visit WiW for more positive outlook and to plan my action for tomorrow, ie faxing and emailing and calling. Will check back later and perhaps ChipsChica would’ve posted a soothing ‘nite nite/pretty pic’ post by then.
Lunar don’t feel discouraged. Sometimes I miss the lighthearted moments too. But this is transient and it too shall pass. we are in an election year and the stakes are high, so there are going to be some not-so-serene moments. But as our President always says, we don’t quit when things seem tough. He doesn’t quit and neither should we. I look forward to seeing his speech tomorrow in Pittsburgh. I’m sure it will be an uplifting and inspiring message. Have a wonderful restful night and hope to see you hear tomorrow!
Thanks you’l. I appreciate the uplifting words of encouragement. And no I’m not discouraged about 2012. I really think if we just keep at it and keep people informed, given the choices and the record PBO has to run on -we will win.
I just think that 2nd to apathy, division will do us in quicker that voter disenfranchisement. It is good to keep informed in what some ‘so called’ supporters are up to or where they are coming from. But we do have to make sure not to turn people away because they are coming from a different place. It is imperative that we recognize if we ask 100 people what motivates them you get 100 different answers. Each valid.
Anyway not making sense. Am running late and typing fast. Just know that hope never fades for me.
@buddyroemer For anyone ticked off at Buddy Roemer about the billion dollar quote that the media made up and ran with, here’s his twitter handle. I already did it and I’m tweeted out for the night.
whoa! Picture #3 just became my new background picture.
I’m with ya aamom, that’s a striking photo of our guy. He’s such a sweetheart. Love that man.
While PBO is doing his job as President of the USA and working 24/7 everybody alse are talking B.S
with the GOP now religion is an issue woow I so glad my family is not religous all of us were born catholics
for our family religion is a big business and We do not want part of it our faith is personal and it should be for
everyone alse , We must respect each other irregarless of what faith you believe. But now that religion is
becaming in issue on the GOP some have said that religion should not prevent any body of becoming President.
But it becomes an issue only PBO woow this is B.S. We do not trust some of those religious leaders. the are
using people to make a living.
Whoa, baby! Mine too. Dang it why does our President have to be so fine?
OT: Listening to Randi Rhodes and some caller was talking about a primary against the President. Randi said she’s not there, but if she were the candidate she would want would be Al Gore. Are these people just nuts? Gore didn’t have the guts to challenge Bush’s stealing the election from him.
I love Randi, but sometimes she just looses me completely. I really don’t get the love fest with Dylan Ratigan. The guy makes my skin crawl. He is a blowhard. He puts the gas in “gasbag”. He is very quick to criticize President Obama for any and everything. I wish he would spend more time calling out the Republican Party for their obstruction and intransigence.
LOL at “he puts the gas in gasbag.” Dylan is nothing but a republican. As I said before, you didn’t hear him ranting about getting money out of politics until Pres Obama showed he could raise more than the GOP. Dylan was at CNBC and I believe knew all about what was going on on Wall Street. Now he wants to act like he’s so against WS.
He has an ugly personality. Likes to try to disparage people. He never has anything good to say about Pres Obama which tells me all I need to know. He’s a blow hard, loud and ignorant. I don’t know how his show is staying on. Who watches his ugliness?
I just cannot stand the phony.
Wow, you nailed my sentiments exactly!
I have yet been able to watch an entire show. He’s such an arrogant bully. I don’t know how he stays on either. I say it’s time for MHP to get her own show. Dump one of Tweety’s hours. He just started going off about PBO not being a good politician cause he doesn’t have the right kind of “friends” to nudge him if he’s supposedly off course.
CM then said something about the Rendell’s of the world would do anything for the Clintons and give them better advice. WTF?? Obviously, Tweety hasn’t been told that Hillary lost.
Yep, dump Ratigan, dump one of Tweety’s time slots and put in MHP.
I heard that too Proud and I was thinking “what?” I’m all for protesting and expressing dissent of opninions—that’s healthy in a democracy (as the President has always been for peaceful protest), but I don’t hear anyone’s name being mentioned but PBO. Right now I want the AJA to pass to give the economy a jolt. I reserve my thoughts for a later time—-too many voices with OWS. One thing I do not like….most of the anger directed to the one man pushing to get something done and it never seems to be good enough for some folks.
What is wrong with these people? Seriously. Instead of standing with the President, some is talking about someone to run against him. Do these dam idiots want the Republicans to win in 2012? It is almost like these Democrats are trying to help the Republicans. The goal ought to be to help this President get re-elected, and get control of the House and Senate, put some decent Democrats in there who will work with this President to get this country going again.
These people are phony and just like Rev Al once said, “these people never supported PBO, they were Hillary supporters”. They are phony and their imo their only real agenda is money…keep shit stirred up and they have a show, etc…they think they are so smart, they think they know it all…they don’t know JACK! If they know so much, why don’t one them run for president!!!!
amen.
Gore wouldn’t even fight in 2000. fuck him.
rikyrah, I agree.
He fought, but what could he do against the Supreme Court? Even if he had gone to Congress (which was the proper venue for a disputed Presidential election), A Republican-controlled Congress would have still given the election to Bush. He had no recourse.
I wouldn’t worry about Gore. He won’t run against Obama. He knows if he ever wants to try again, there’s 2016 and an open field.That’s another reason why nobody is paying attention to cries to “primary Obama”. Why alienate the party in a assuredly losing effort (no sitting President has ever lost his party’s nomination), when you can simply wait? Win or lose with Obama, 2016 for Democrats will be an open race with no incumbent P or VP.
They’re all living in a stoned non-reality Proud. Stupid idiots. Who the hell other than PBO can win re-election and continue implementing and protecting transformative legislation? I’m so tired of a bunch of these morons saying they’re disenfranchised voters and PBO has disappointed them. At this point I want to tell all of them to take a long walk of a short pier. If they can’t see the wheat (PBO) from the chaffe (PL and emoprogs like Cornel, Smiley, Arianna, Katrina Van Deheuvel) in front of them; then they should sit down, STFU, and leave us to do the work of re-electing him. Their so called half-hearted help would only slow down our cause.
You’re so right, UT, there isn’t one Democrat that could win the presidential election besides PBO. Not one. Fools.
Are these people STUPID? Al Gore is not “progressive. He is anti-choice always has been. Al Gore was the first Dem presidential candidate I had to hold my nose to voter for because of his anti woman policy.
It’s amazing to see the love affair from the left with Al Gore now.
It wasn’t the same in 2000 wasn’t it?
Michael Moore who said about Gore in 2000 that the lesser of two evils is still evil….
Michael Moore (quoted on Nader’s web page)
A vote for Gore is a vote for Bush; that is the new equation. A vote for Nader is a political Molotov that we need to throw into a corrupt and bankrupt system filled with its dirty money. We need to do this right now folks. We need to do this. It is a wasted vote if you vote for more of the same, which is what you get with Gore or Bush.”
I find it extremely suspicious that the same frauds who helped Georges Bush get elected are now praising Al Gore. It has nothing to do with conviction, it’s about money.
Michael Moore is a regular guest on Current,
Michael Moore who does everything to undermine the President, to create chaos. The guy who wanted Matt Damon to challenge the President, even Oprah.
He makes millions with this, with his documentaries, his books, etc…..the more people are angry, the more money he makes.
He doesn’t want the US to prosper, he doesn’t want social justice……….he’s going to lose a fortune if it does.
The fact that he was one of the first in the front line in OWS says it all to me……
Oh Christi thanks for that info on Michael Moore , I had no idea he’d been a gainst Gore. Chaos seems to be what some folks are after.
Moore is politically naive if he thinks that Ralph Nader as POTUS will be any different than any other dem or progressive as long as there are republicans and conservdems in Congress. The key is in getting progressive dems in Congress, not in finding a challenger to PBO. He sure is dumb when it comes to facing the reality of politics!!
al gore with all his ‘baggage’ ??? good luck randi.
I know? I love Randi but since she moved back to florida, she’s buggin’. The caller said he’d vote for Hillary, who she does not like because she did not like Hillary’s attack on candidate Obama. But come on….get over it gurl. Al Gore goes not fight for himself how is he gonna fight for us? Maybe Al grew some nads since he is now single…maybe Tipper was holding him back? He seems ok attacking President Obama which I don’t like.
I don’t think Randi really believes this about Gore…It just struck me that I think she was throwing a statement out there because I think she wants a spot on Current. She had Cenk on and has been speaking highly of the network, and when a caller last week said that she should have a show, she said please write them a letter. Who knows, changes in her life she may want a change into TV. She may be tired of radio. But I just remembered some things she’s said in the past few weeks that would answer why she would just throw out Gore’s name today.
You may be right Janelle. You know when the election heats up, the RW wants to squash liberal voices. Randi’s radio station is owned by the same folks that own Rush, Hannity, etc. I would love for her to go to TV and have a internet radio show. I don’t want her voice squashed in 2012.
If that’s the case, then it’s CHEESY BS MEDIA BUNK. Too craven for words.
I was listening too & was taken back by Randi’s comment. But I remembered her conversation with Cenk. Like you, I believe Randi really wants her own show on Current & she’s kissing butt.
I tried calling Randi to ask about the OWS and I posted this:
I called Randi Rhodes show and the screen would not put be through. I told him that I am concerned about the group behind OWS and that is a Canadian group adbusters. The screen said this was false rumor that this a truly grass roots. So I asked my why were they protesting just PBO’s campaign headquarters and all her screener had to say was, “thats a good question”. He went on to say that they are upset with Obama for siding with Wall Street. I told him that the Republican party is running on supporting wall street why are they singling out just the president? He had no answer and said thanks for calling
JoJo, Sounds like Randi’s screener is not being completely honest. President Obama is not “siding with Wall Street” that is complete and utter disinformation. Secondly, if you go to adbusters website you will see that they did in fact first mention the occupying of Wall Street. And the fact that he couldn’t answer two very simple but important questions, tells me all I need to know.
I know lots of people revere Randi. I’ve personally only heard half of one of her shows once but that is about the dumbest shit thing I’ve ever heard. GAH. Just too hideous for words.
She is a personal friend of Al Gore. Goes to social events with him. Melissa Ethridge also. I used to listen to Randi a few years ago.
Al Gore is a very rich person he has a lot’s of bagage moraly the PL TRIED to meke him run in 2008 , but
he did not want to do it so tired of those rumors lies, rumors and more so much of B.S so MY onlu source
of information will be PBO and screw everything alse there is so much none sense B.S coming from anywhere
that I. am so tirede speculations, speculations come on>
WOW,,My President is tres handsome!!!
Yep. Yep. Fully concur.
It should be a SIN to see this GREAT Human being covering his KILLER SMILE. He has the Best Smile in the World. Love you Mr. President. #PressOn.
Mr President that suit is a tad too large on you;have it taken in to fit you better
He does appear to be much thinner than before.
unfortunately
PBO is working 24/7 and it shows I tearly feel sorry for this President he is a very good Man with the
highest morals than any other president we ever had No. body, ,No body has the the perfect morals as
PBO.
He looks fine in the suit. If y’all prefer a Christie sized prez…then be my guest. But for now, I’ll settle for lean and mean.
HE LOOKS JUST FINE IN THAT SUIT !!!!!
YES,HE’S SLIM BUT SO WHAT!!!!!
How can a human being be this Damn Good Looking???? Not Fair.
I honestly believe that people such as Hank Williams, Jr and others that hate President Obama do so because of his looks, grace, and education. They are too ignorant to understand any policy arguments.
I totally agree, Bill. I remember one time hearing a clip of Rush going practically crazy behind PBO looking youthful. It was the most bizarre rant ever. He was mad because Prez is good looking. It’s an almost primal reaction to his swagger.
Another agreement. I also think that is why a lot of idiots say things about Michelle. Wow, I envy her “buffness” – but just love her more for it. Wish I could be so determined, yet I’m far from jealous. Same with my DH and PBO. Although the only thing my husband and PBO has in common is their both male, both good looking and they have gray hair, lol. We have the utmost admiration for the first couple (and their daughters) and are so proud of having this lovely (and loving) couple represent our country.
Nice!
Look at that gorgeous man. Lawd he’s fine.
I second that!!!
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@PaulKrugman ‘the real extremists here are America’s oligarchs’ In_DEED nyti.ms/r490BQ #PASSAJA #PRESSON #YesWeCanDOMoreTogther
He tries to contain that beautiful smile but the joy just bubbles up out of him and POW!!! the smile shows up.
OMG, Tweety is promoting some nutty as a fruitcake segment that Obama has a “people” problem, that he has a problem meeting and being with “people”. What in the world is this? Opposite Day on Tweety? This is senseless. Hopefully, this is not as insane as it sounds. Because right now it sounds like the Biggest Fattest Lie of All Time.
I gotta ask: Why in the name of all that is holy are you still watching Chris Matthews? He has always been and will always be all over the map politically, bruising for a brawl, and rarely making sense about anything. He hasn’t changed one iota in years. Complete waste of your time.
I totally agree with you Tien! Chris Matthews is the Mitt Romney of cable news shows.
I just tweeted tweety.
@hardball Yes Chris, the president has a problem meeting with “PEOPLE” all community organizers have this problem. Seriously!!!
ROFLMAO!!!! Great tweet
Tweety must not be familiar with the work of Pete Souza. His photos tell a different story. When people are around President Obama they are usually smiling and in a good mood. They want to be close to him, to shake his hand, to give him a hug, to give him a kiss, to get an autograph, to show their support. And he is like the pied piper when he is around children. They love him. They wrap their arms around his waist and his legs. They look up at him with admiration.
Tweety is just going out of his way to be provocative. This is definitely “opposite day”. As far as I am concerned, this just proves that President Obama is getting through to the American people. They are on his side. Tweety must have gotten the memo from the GOP. They have been complaining that President Obama is campaigning. The GOP should know, they have been in campaign mode since January 20, 2009.
Tweety has mental problems; coupled with his habit of spraying spittle across the table. I saw the mini-headlines of what he was covering today and when he said he was going to talk about PBO having a people problem, I changed the channel. I was in no mood for an hour of BS.
Tweety needs a big ol’ TWEET about the wonderful work of Pete Souza! Maybe that will give bubble boy a CLUE. Maybe not.
LOL. Zing.
Our4thEstate Bobfr
Message to #NEWSTAINER #puffballmathews President Obama stands with and for the people & all your yammering won’t change it. #PRESSON
Tweety unfortunately is doing this quite honestly in my honest and humble opinion to scare away white voters continuing the false idea that the President is “Foreign” to rest of his crowd.
How on earth can he know who the President meets? Is he there inside the Oval Office during office hourse? or is it because the President doesn’t go to bars on a daily basis and get drunk with the Washington people?
What does he think about the “people” he meet on his bus tour? Oh the president must have been hugging that elderly “corporation”.
I the part about: hugging that elderly “corporation”, what creativity!!! I like, like, like it!!!!!
Tweety is full of SHIT!!!!!!! Period!
Nice!! I never watch his show he sound like a used car salesman realy;
Not watching him, but how the hell can he even spout such lies when everyone sees PBO out with people? Here’s an idea: Let’s all send Tweety via twitter a pic of PBO with crowds of supporters. It’ll be fun.
The mainstream media never cover the President’s interaction with people. The videos and pictures we see on this marvelous site are rarely, if ever, covered by the national media. May be Chipsticks could enlighten Chris Matthews by sending him a few of the evidence in TOD’s archives that clearly debunk his claim that the President has problems relating to people. I doubt that Matthews has ever seen that precious video of the President comforting the crying baby. Yesterday I was out celebrating my birthday with friends. Naturally our conversations touched on the current political climate. We were all disappointed for not being able to see the President when he came to San Diego. I’ve been around for some time and I know of no other President, in my lifetime, who genuinely enjoyed being around people than President Obama. Other than JFK, I can’t recall any other president who ordinary people loved to touch, take pictures with, more than they do with President Obama.
dotster….did you just listen to that idiot!…Tweety is just a twerp,and as vacuous as they come…he didn’t even have the balls to stop Ron Christie’s lies that the Tea party revolt last year was very peaceful. I’m going after him on twitter!!.
Tweety is talking out of the wrong orifice
Amazing how freely these political pundits lie.
I turned him off after his last disloyal rant and wont turn him on again, Sure love Rev Al tho.
apparentlt someone (Washington insider) wrote an article that PBO has a “people” problem because he does not socialize with them, drink with them and give the Washington people a hug now and them. so naturally he has his justification for the crap
Tweety is not talking about ordinary people. He’s talking about the cocktail party croud in Washington. From some remarks here and there in the past two and a half years, i gather that the cocktail party goers (media, lobbyists, political operatives) don’t like President Obama because he doesn’t play with them. He doesn’t trade favors, doesn’t play favourites, doesn’t promise scoops in exchange for good treatment in the media, etc, etc…
Make no mistake, the Beltway was PERFECTLY confortable with how things were, but then came into office a president who was NOT interested in the status quo, who was NOT interested in the Washington games. A president whose sole focus has been to SOLVE PROBLEMS, and to be the defender of ORDINARY americans, americans who have NO VOICE in Washington.
Deep down inside and maybe unconsciously, the Beltway resent President Obama because he is asking them to change their ways, and operate at a higher level, both intellectually and morally.
I read a few weeks ago, don’t remember where, someone comparing Washington to Versailles. I thought the comparison was a good one.
**Posted on earlier thread, I’m re-posting it here**
Dear TOD,
I’m afraid of what’s happening to your site. Seems like the last few days many on here have decided to condemn OWS and other ‘occupy’ movements across the country as anti-Obama based on the comments of a few. I finally gave up yesterday after trying to say there are things about the movement that we don’t fully know. Like how they’re being infiltrated by folks who claim to be spokespersons and have ulterior motives, and moles and trolls claiming to represent the entire movement.
If someone is mad at the entire group because a few people said something, isn’t that the same as being mad at all Black people because one or two did something messed up? What’s the difference? Just because Naomi says something doesn’t mean she speaks for everyone out there any more than Tavis or Cornell speak for me. She just got on TV. She’s not even an American. She didn’t get gassed, she’s not camping in the park. Who gives a shit what she thinks?
Saying there are no people of color when, clearly, if you look at the videos there are a variety of people involved. Why disparage these folks by calling them hippies and the like when it’s clear to anyone who wants to see that people of all colors, ages and backgrounds are involved?
Why are you mad because a few didn’t want to listen to John Lewis when Lewis himself says he isn’t mad?? And says he understands?
Do you want your site to become another GOS? With folks just spewing negativity 24/7? Because that’s all I’ve seen here for the last few days. Just because folks here are pro-Obama, please don’t become purity trolls like the tea party or the folks at Daily Kos or FDL. The Democratic Party is a big tent and there is room for many points of view. Some folks are mad at President Obama. So what? He says he supports them, as does Nancy Pelosi. Are you going to be like Bush, “you are either with us or with the terrorists?” They don’t have to speak in favor of AJA to be legitimate. That’s some standard you’ve set.
I don’t know what the entire movement is about. But I do know this. These folks have been LIVING outdoors for weeks in NYC. Most on this blog are sitting at a keyboard complaining and “casting side-eyes” at something that no one totally understands while the folks out there are getting pepper-sprayed and arrested. AND THEY’RE LIVING OUTDOORS!!!
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. OWS is clearly upsetting the right-wingers, Eric Cantor and Fox News and them. If it’s pissing them off, that makes me think there’s something going on that I like. They shouted down Geraldo and Fox News [chanting "fox news lies"] and drove his opportunist ass out of there.
Martin Luther King said, “there is no separate black path to power and fulfillment that does not intersect white paths, and there is no separate white path to power and fulfillment, short of social disaster, that does not share that power with black aspirations for freedom and human dignity We are bound together in a single garment of destiny.”
The pictures that Chips has shown on this very site show that just as many white people love our President as Black people. Why let a few losers spoil that? Why let Karl Rove win by sowing distrust and misinformation? From the looks of things here, he’s succeeding.
I say this as a 56 year old Black woman who was 13 years old when King was assassinated. I come from the old school. I remember the dogs and the fire hoses. I remember the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago when folks got their heads busted. Black people and white people risked being beaten and killed so that you can sit up on this blog and express your opinions rather than pick cotton or clean somebody’s bathroom.
I’m happy to see SOMEBODY out there putting their ass on the line for something, even if I don’t totally understand. And raining down on the right wing and the MSM–making the 1% very afraid in the process.
They don’t have to march to my drum. And I ain’t hating them.
That is all.
Jax6655,
Everyone has the right to their opinion and you have the right to yours, and I would never attack you for them.
One thing I will push back on is your statement that everyone is sitting at their keyboards and doing nothing, this statement I have to disagree with. I like others are very involved in local petition drives and voter registrations. And to that fact I’m proud to say that I worked for weeks and months on end here in Ohio to help stop SB5 and the Voter restriction Bill passed by Kasick.
One of the main reason why I haven’t jumped on board with OWS is becasue unfocused anger leads to confusion. Here in Ohio once the Gov passed each bill we collectively focused our anger on taking down the legisaltion.
I’m sorry but I can’t offer my support at this time.
Jax6655 Thank you, Thank you Thank you!!!!!!
Jax6655, as I have stated many times and I will repeat again, my main concern right now is to get the AJA passed so that people without Jobs can get back to work. When it comes to defending my President from Teabaggers, PLs, and some in the OWS, I do it with a badge of honor and I DON’T compromise on that. As for the OWS, I still don’t know who they are and I still don’t know what they stand for and i still don’t know who speaks for them. But from now on, I will NOT attack them UNLESS they attack MY President without a good reason and FACTS to back it up. IMHO
Thanks for speaking up, jax. Lots of truths there. I think many have been hesitant about supporting this because they haven’t known what to make of it, didn’t feel comfortable, didn’t know where it was heading, many confusing and contradictory descriptions. I am slowly being brought around, especially when I see Repub rt. wing commentary becoming increasingly condemning, becoming more hateful, trying to mischaracterize it, dismiss it as just a bunch of stoned out hippies. I think they’re scared. And as I am typing, there is horrible, haughty Cantor on the teevee saying he is really becoming concerned about the growing dangerous mobs, and there is Nancy Pelosi voicing support. It is yet to be seen where all this is going to end up, but I appreciate you voicing your thoughtful opinion.
I’m not sure why you think that people are condemning OWS here. People are expressing concerns. People are ‘reacting’ to rumors. I think condemn is too strong a word. I have my doubts about the ‘movement’, but I haven’t looked into it all that much either. So there are doubts and mistrust; there is blind support, too. I don’t think any of us have the complete picture. Neither does OWS. Or the media. We get to stumble around to try to understand it. Seems to me if OWS knew what it was about; then we wouldn’t be so confused.
Tien you are right tomorrow PBO will be in PHILY AND HE MIGHT SAID SOMETHING ON THIS MATTER
pbo ALL READY SAID THAT PEOLPLE ARE FRUSTRATED he understands this issue. I put my full trust
on PBO any time. so please, please people calm down and let PBO handle this issue and do not panic.
ows – right goal, wrong target. So it will fizzle out.
And to compare themselves to the arab spring movement is the height of hubris.
Perfect summary.
Instead of abstractions that movement could focus on 5 achievable goals: 1 Re-election President Obama; 2 Election of progressive Democratic candidates for Federal and State elected offices; 3 Demand #GOPFAIL pass the President’s Jobs Bill; 4 Insist on the repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley in Jan 2013; 5 Work every single day from now until Election Day 2012 to ensure every voting age person has access to a ballot and VOTES.
#PRESSON
Actually, from all reporting I’ve seen, it is not fizzling, it is growing. Massive multiple thousands in Chgo today, described as a rapidly growing demonstration, shutting down downtown streets. More are planned for every day this week, with themes like “Take Back our Jobs, and Take Back our Homes” etc. I like how they’re usurped the tea party “take back our country” theme.
I hope to go to “Occupy Charlotte”. Im going to carry a Pass the Bill sign. I cringe when I hear anti Obama stuff at the OWS but there are many opinions there. Including the anti-war folks.
Over all it seems to be anti-greed.
Did you see the twitters that James Okeefe was there? Everyone was watching for him and his dirty tricks on Twitter.
dotster it may be growing now because it’s relatively new, the media has just started paying attention, the blogs are aflame with OWS talk, right now everyone is trying to get on TV or make a name for themselves, so it seems exciting. But months and months of the same nebulous agenda with no action plan and diffuse anger is NOT sustainable. Furthermore, Winter Season is coming and imagine having to go out and stand in sub-freezing temperatures day after day chanting and shouting the same thing with no identifiable goal or trackable progress. That is not as easy as it may sound.
Bingo. Just wait till the novelty factor wears out. Effecting change a la mcdonald’s fast food style is only a librul fantasy.
My question is: how do they plan to take back their jobs and their homes without legislation and without voting out obstructionists or even vocalizing the damage that Republicans are intent on doing? So far, I haven’t heard even one word from OWS. I can’t argue with Jax6655′s statement that a few voices shouldn’t paint the whole movement with a dark stain, but they have to have a cause. They have to stand for something tangible, and have a clear objective. Otherwise, they’ll be hijacked. So far, I’ve heard statements that they want a third party, that they hold both parties equally to blame, that they want to primary President Obama, that they have bigger fish to fry than passing the “corrupt” American Jobs Act. I have heard that people aren’t registering voters, that they have been told that voting won’t get them anywhere. That they are simply against the oligarchs. They’ve been visited by many of the same people who spend time talking and doing/achieving nothing – like Dylan Ratigan, Michael Moore, Ed Schultz.
I just won’t throw any support to people who – in an election year – don’t want to talk about voting, politics, legislation. Who allow unofficial spokespeople to make disparaging remarks about the President of the United States and threaten his re-election – and then they don’t rush to dispel the impression that these unofficial spokespeople speak for their entire group. I won’t support that. If they change and become coherent and reasonable and supportive of the only agenda that’s out there and targeted to help their cause, i.e.President Obama’s agenda, then I’ll reconsider. In the meantime, I’ll continue working to support President Obama.
Thanks amk for Obama for succinctly expressing my feelings about OWS!
Who is hating on them. I see healthy skepticism, challenging a movement that does not have clearly defined goals. Why do you expect everyone here to automatically agree with this movement. I welcome the discussion.
Members of this site are convicted, convicted to the President of the United States who has enormous forces working against him, and yet works tirelessly to move this country in a positive direction. We do not want to contribute in anyway to those forces that would work against him, knowingly, or as maybe the case with OWS, unknowingly. Is this movement truly’ raining down on the the right-wing and the MSM’……it doesn’t sound as if the evidence of that is unequivical. I think the discussion should continue until the skepticism is assuaged. In the mean time pressure needs to be asserted to see that the President’s AJA is passed, a clear and obtainable goal.
Questioning the Occupy Wall Street movement is not allowed. Only questioning of the questioning of the Occupy Wall Street protests is allowed. Just because they have never denounced any Republican by name who has thwarted Wall Street reform, and just because they boo the only President in the last 60 years who has ushered in unprecedented Wall Street reform and just because they allow Michael Moore and Cornell West to speak but don’t have time for a man like John Lewis who doesn’t have just rhetoric and far left talking points to back up his convictions but a long record and actual bruises from genuinely fighting for civil rights on the streets and not just in TV studios is no reason to question the movement that shall not be questioned.
Right on.
-ReadyToGoInCA
Whew Firedup. That was the longest sentence I’ve read in a long time. I got breathless reading it
But, so succinct, so true !
And that deserves an Amen, FiredUp.
FiredUp, you are on the ball! And I agree.
Amen!
Nailed it firedup.
THIS!!
Amen!
What is their goal? Until the occupy congress , I won’t be backing it.
Desraye, you make a good point, maybe it should be an “OCCUPY CONGRESS” movement. I can understand the outrage at Wall Street, but I would rather see the focus on congress where it belongs. Congress is not doing it’s job. First and foremost, there should be demands about why Dodd-Frank and the CFPB are not being implemented three years after the financial meltdown. The Republican Party is blocking Dodd-Frank. Meanwhile, it was the lack of regulations and accountability in the Bush administration that created the environment for financial disaster. I hope the outrage at Wall Street will translate into demands for action from congress.
I think the outrage at WS will translate into demands for action in Congress. therefore the AJA BILL will pass
let’s be optimistic about it.
This site will never be a GOS because it won’t turn on Obama. The GOS is anti-Obama everyday. The GOS has embrace the OWS, which make me even more suspcious. Civil Rights Movement had a goal. The Wisconsin protesters had a goal. What do the OWS have? I also think that these are the same people that didn’t turn out for the 2010 elections. It would make sense to protest in front of the Capitol and the MSM Corporation, but instead the protest in front of Wall Street who don’t really care.
In one of his diaries, LaGreca unwittingly revealed that he thought that the OWS crowd was mostly “Independents” who could vote for Obama, IF Obama did X, Y or Z. That tells me everything I need to know.
I would’t mind if they came clean and said that they were anti-President Obama. Then we would know that their goal is to ensure his defeat for a second term. Obviously I would be vigorously opposed to such a goal, but I would at least concede that it’s a specific goal that can be attained. I am, however, not sure that even that modest goal could be attained by urging people not to vote. Besides, If not voting eventually helped the election of a Republican president, do people promoting OWS think that that would result in destroying Wall Street and corporate capitalism?
As it stands now, I am not quite sure what OWS movement hopes to accomplish. To compare this to the Arab spring really shows the naivety of the people involved. The Arab revolts have a specific goal: removing dictators who have ruled for decades, and installing democratic governments in the Arab nations. Just in case people haven’t noticed, different countries in the Arab world have employed different tactics to attain the goal of overthrowing dictators. What is still unclear, at least for me, is trying to figure out the ultimate goal of OWS? Is the goal the abolition Wall Street and the destruction of corporate capitalism to be replaced with socialism? Is that a realistic goal? Are the tactics being utilized by OWS movement sufficient to bring about the victory of socialism over capitalism?
I strongly believe that grassroots movements have to focus on attainable goals. It may require utilizing a variety of tactics to attain those
goals. Nevertheless, generalized righteous anger and frustration is not a goal. Rather, anger and frustration should be a spark to focus on defining goals of alleviating the anger and frustration and devising realistic and effective tactics that are likely to bring about success.
I am sorry but I just have not been able to get a handle on what OWS is all about; except that people think they should emulate what took place in Egypt and Tunisia. In the end, people are going to be disillusioned anyway because they will quickly find out that the United States is not a carbon copy of Egypt and Tunisia. If this country could withstand the massive rebellions of the 1960′s and still remain a fiercely capitalist country, I am not at all convinced OWS is going to fundamentally change that reality. For me, I would rather focus on realistic, though obviously incremental, changes that are likely to improve the lives of ordinary people in the existing system. Things like the President’s jobs bill which will put millions of unemployed people to work, and also continue to provide a safety net for those without jobs. I also would like to focus my energy on re-electing the President, and majority Democrats in Congress because I would not like to see the Republicans do away with all the progress this country has made over the past seventy plus years.
Brilliantly stated Nath. Brilliantly stated.
Thank you so much UT for your kind words. They mean so much to me because I have the highest respect for you. I truly value all your commentaries. They make me feel good to know that there are young people, like you, who are so wise and not so easily manipulated. Like our young President, you are indeed the future leaders of this country.
nathkatum7 you are right on we lives in Europe and in Asia the Arab spring was a specific movement. people
there were so tired of been opressed for so many years I not sure some people realy understand the diference
Also people have to understand that there will be a stuff lies made up about PBO. but we should not panic. this
is politics we have to focus on Re-electing PBO My family have spend thoundsend of Dollars since PBO was
running and time for his campaing and yes he is doing a fantastic JOB WE put our money where our mouth is.
There is so much speculations whining speculation whining and i want ths to STOP.
I totally agree wit you, Mel. There is a huge difference between fighting rulers who have been in power thirty or forty years, and with no prospect of change, and trying to bring about change in a country that allows elections every two years for Congress, Four years for President, and Six years for Senators. Those of us who are committed to change have to realize that the change we seek can only be realized if we focus on voting for representatives who support our interests. I don’t see how political change can happen in America without being engaged in electoral politics.
Bravo.
Excellent points made Jax6655. I am appalled that folks here are attacking OWS and repeating the MSM lies that they are like the Tea Party. I recalled that the Tea Party carried guns, where are the guns at OWS?
The only concern I see is that there are too many mixed messages with OWS, but they have a noble cause and have the right to voice their opinions. Even if a few are against President Obama, I’m not seeing them calling him a Muslim or a Kenyan like the Tea Party bigots.
We just have to disagree without being disagreeable, many of us have forgotten that from President Obama. President Obama supports the movement, Nancy Pelosi supports the movement, many Democrats support the movement… why are folks echoing the right and condemning it here, just because of a few idiots?
We here at TOD should know better. We shouldn’t be working against OWS, we should be helping them because we could become a HUGE dynamic force against the Republicans and the upper 1%.
Who compare to the tea party? And again what are their goals?
A bunch of posters here over the weekend said that they are an extension of the Tea Party, just because a minute few of these protesters idolized the Tea Party. Yet I see no negative Obama signs comparing him to a Kenyan, a witch doctor, or any of these protesters wearing guns.
As far as their goals, I’ve already expressed my concerns that they don’t have a long term goal. But we have the tools to help them decide a long term goal.
Instead of working against them, why not help them out? They probably would know better if a few of us with smarts set them straight, since a lot of them probably listen to too much Teevee and talk radio.
Like I posted below, OFA has the tools to drive the message and establish a goal, why shouldn’t we help them out? Just because a few made stupid comments about Obama? People keep talking about how they should be pushing for AJA, yet most probably don’t even know about it… they probably would if we got down there and helped them.
I’m going to have to disagree. President Obama does not support their movement. That’s not what he said at his press conference. He said he understood their concerns about the predatory practices of Wall Street. Have you done any research on how the group got started in Canada? How about you go read the “chat away” threads from the weekend and get some information about OWS. The people who gave the original call for the movement saw themselves as an extension of the teaparty. That is not a group anyone with a modicum of sense should want to be affiliated with. Why should we not use critical thinking skills before jumping blindly on a bandwagon that is scattered and has no concrete philosophy and message? We’re not repeating any MSM lies; we conducted research for ourselves and before you castigate us how about you provide answers to these questions?
Do you support people telling millions of people not to vote in 2012, do you support people constantly bashing President Obama? Do you support people who are scattered ( that’s putting it kindly) and whose message is convoluted? Do you support a Canadian corporation who sees themself as an extension of the teaparty and were the ones who began this so called “movement?”, do you support a faction that seems to be chock full of Ron Paulites, libertarians, emoprogs, professional lefties who use this so called “movement” as a breeding ground to undermine President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who thought their main mission was to hurl racial slurs and epithets about President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who went to PBO’s Chicago campaign HQ’s to cause a disgusting ruckus? Do you support a so called “movement” who keeps tying PBO to wallstreet and calling him a crony of Wallstreet? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are blocking Richard Cordray’s nomination to head of the CFPB; an agency that actually stops the predatory practices of wallstreet and big banks? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are trying to defund Dodd-Frank financial reform law and drastically slow down the implementation of the law? Do you support a “movement” that aimlessly wanders about chanting in a zombie like manner instead of doing something proactive like registering people to vote in 2012 so GOPTeabaggers can be kicked out, Dems can retain the whitehouse and both chambers of congress and progress can finally be restored? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want money out of elections they should find a legal channel to strike down Citizens United? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want the economy to improve or obtain jobs that will boost the middleclass they should petition congress to pass President Obama’s American Jobs Act?
Until they get their act together; I for one will not blindly be led by the nose to support a faction whose “message” changes at the speed of light and I for one will not be castigated for not throwing my support to a group who doesn’t know left from right.
I’m not suggesting blindly supporting their faction. But a few loudmouths do NOT speak for an entire group, do Maxine Waters, Cornell West, Alan West and Herman Cain speak for ALL African Americans?
You say they are an extension of the Tea Party, where are the guns? The Tea party was largely pro gun violence, calling for “Second Amendment remedies” and being “armed to the teeth,” one of the Teabags even called for an armed revolution against the government. And as I pointed out, NO anti Obama signs filled with hatred like those seen at the Tea Party, just calling for an end to the wars, and signs against rich fat cats… I thought those were causes that we supported.
And as I pointed out, the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s were against JFK because he wasn’t onboard with their cause.
Perhaps they don’t know better because they watch too much Teevee and are leaderless. We have the tools to guide them, all I am suggesting is be a skeptic of the movement if you wish, but to dismiss the movement entirely when they share concerns that we have re: Wall Street and the rich is just foolish and naive IMO.
I’m not dismissing the movement entirely but if they can’t get their act together, they’re nothing more than a ship with no rudder. Everyone has a philosophy. EVERYONE. Even if people were dismissing the movement entirely, that in no way makes them foolish and naive. Where is this movement going? If they can’t come up with a complete set of mission statements then they’re just another distraction and I for one am sick and tired of endless distractions. 2012 is too crucial to mess around with and President Obama is valiantly touring the country spreading the wonderful message of the AJA and how it will concretely help people. Instead of his message being spread to people through various avenues, another distraction like OWS comes along and changes the discussion; which should be about JOBS JOBS JOBS and how the AJA will produce up to 1.9 million JOBS! Just because they don’t carry guns doesn’t mean they don’t harbor some teaparty and libertarian principles. Now the OWS meme du jour is calling for a 3rd party candidate to primary President Obama. Hmmm… sound familiar?
If they were indeed calling for a “third party candidate,” then why are Reverend Al and Van Jones behind the movement? Last time I checked, they are both 100% pro Obama, and I just don’t see them supporting ANY movement that they believe would hurt the President.
I think you’re taking the words of a few crackpots in the movement at face value, propped up by the media. It’s the SAME media that props up Maxine Waters, Cornell West, Alan West, and Herman Cain as voices for African Americans, are you going to take their opinions at face value?
Maybe the AJA is your personal concern, but maybe not to them. Maybe they’re more concerned about making the rich pay their fair share, we don’t all have to share the same goals. Heck, not everyone was onboard with HCR as a cause, yet it got done.
“Maybe the AJA is your personal concern, but maybe not to them. ”
It should be a major concern to them.
And as I pointed out, we don’t all have to share the same concerns… not everyone had the full passion to repeal DADT or pass HCR.
Although it should be a concern to them, who’s to force them? Last time I checked, we supposedly supported thinking freely and not forcing folks to agree with us, “Disagree without being disagreeable” is an idea that Barack Obama discussed in the primaries that many of us have long forgotten.
Nintendo, this movement claims to be about people’s anger on the economy, the unemployment rate, and the super rich not paying their fair share. The AJA takes a small but significant step towards addressing those very issues. Therefore, It SHOULD be a primary concern and the business of those protesting to ensure that the AJA gets passed.
Nintendow, So a bill that is about putting people back to work and taking a step towards having millionaires pay their fair share in taxes should not be of any concern to a movement that claims to be angry about unemployment, and corporate greed?!?!?!?!?
How exactly do you explain that one.
AJA ? What AJA ? Can’t you see we’re protestin’ man !!!
As I pointed to Desraye, we can’t force folks to support AJA anymore than we couldn’t force folks to get onboard with DADT repeal or HCR, the media did enough to toxify the goals of both DADT repeal and HCR to where it would take folks time to get onboard with both ideas.
Yes, it should be their passion to get behind AJA, but most are probably to the point that they are convinced that it’s just more wasteful spending that will end up favoring Wall Street. Their thinking is obviously wrong, but like I said, we can’t force them to change their minds or thinking, we’ll have to attempt to convince the folks who are willing to listen in order to get AJA done.
But to make a larger point, these OWS folks are fighting the right wing, and a weakened right wing means that we can get the AJA passed. If the right wing wins, then how can we get the AJA passed? Disagree with some of them attacking Obama, but they’re driving the right wing batshit crazy at the same time. IMO, as long as they aren’t attacking President Obama with racial slurs or calling him a Kenyan like the Tea Party nuts did, as long as they aren’t calling for armed revolution and wearing guns like the Tea Party nuts did, they are free to attack the President as much as they want to… I’m just glad they’re driving the right wingers crazy.
@amk funny!! LOL
NINTENDO,
In case you don’t remember, the folks who were not on board with DADT repeal or HCR were the SAME anti-Obama folks from the PL factions. The folks who really wanted DADT to be repealed via congress, and who needed Heath care reform , were fully on board and supportive of the President’s efforts and were jubilant when those bills got passed.
Similarly, if someone is now not on board with AJA being passed, it means they are NOT supportive of this President and his goals for the country. Which brings us back to our original question: Who does OWS really support, and what exactly do they stand for?
well nintendo – if making the rich pay their fair share is indeed their concern then they ought to be pushing the only thing that is in the works to make that happen: the AJA wherein taxes will be raised on the wealthy. I’ve heard not a word from these protests on that.. or protecting consumers via the Consumer Protection Agency, and the repub agenda to dismantle that and prevent Cordray from getting approved. If Jobs/ wealth disparity are the issue.. why oh why is the AJA being ignored by the ows?
As to Rev Al, I listened to him today and it was clear that he supports this- he supports protesting, especially when it concerns economic injustice.. I am of the thinking that he very much wants to use this energy to accomplish something also.. we shall see what becomes of all of it.
“But to make a larger point, these OWS folks are fighting the right wing, and a weakened right wing means that we can get the AJA passed.”
Really? The MSM is using the protesters to run a negative narrative about PBO. They energy would much rather be used alling some of the congresscritterss.
The AJA should be their personal concern. A bill that could provide up to 1.9 million jobs should be their personal concern and if it isn’t that just shows me how scattered, disorganized and foolish the group is. They’re chanting day after day. How about they chant to congress Pass President Obama’s jobs bill so they have jobs, have paychecks and can pay their bills. How about they chant for passage of the AJA which puts a 5% sur-tax on the rich so they pay their fair share as you said “they’re more concerned about.” Why did they invite Cornel West and Tavis Smiley, and Michael Moore; three well known grifters to speak at their rallies but not allow Congresman John Lewis? Since you keep comparing them to the Civil Rights movement ( which is an erroneous comparison by the way) why wouldn’t they want a bonafide hero of the Civil Rights era to lend his voice and support? I respect Reverend Al and watching his show, I could see he was behind what the movement could be; but not even he, MHP, and Van Jones could articulate the mandate of OWS. They couldn’t articulate the philosophy of OWS, they couldn’t articulate the goals of OWS, they couldn’t articulate in a nutshell what the core of the movement is about. Rev. Al supports PBO 100% but even he has said he is not above making mistakes.; and I for one am still not 100% on board with OWS and I will be watching them with a very very leery eye.
Utaustinliberal,
I spoke with Randi Rhodes screener because I wanted to ask her about the adbuster association. The screener would not let me talk to Ranid but I asked him about this group and he said it is a internet meme that is incorrect. He believes this is a true grass roots organization with a few bad apples. You have done the research, what are your thoughts?
And that’s the point that I’ve been attempting to make with OWS, that they have a few bad apples propped up by the media that don’t speak for the entire movement.
As for Ad Busters, I wouldn’t know about them, so I won’t comment. But I do know that the right wing are being loud and boisterous in order to shut OWS down, so it is NOT a Tea party wing or operation as some here have tried to claim.
JoJo, have you checked the adbusters’ website? And how does he know that this is an “Internet meme that is incorrect?” They published an article about Occupying Wall Street on July 13th of this year. Did any one hear about Occupy Wall Street protests before that date?
Hiya Jojo, I’ve researched Ad Busters and they are not a true grassroots organization. They are a corporation that preaches anti-consumerism, yet they are the biggest partakers of consumerism. They are proud of the fact that they are an extension of the teaparty and their original mission statement for OWS was to petition President Obama in a virulent manner. Their mission statement was a bash President Obama fest. They had magazines they had published that depicted President Obama as a clown and a Wall Street oligarch. It was disgusting. Hopefruit2 also had a wonderful article about them. They’re very very suspect and Randi Rhodes screener is naive if he/she thinks otherwise.
nintendowii10 Right, Right Right the Teaparty were paid by the CHOCH BROTHERS I have not seen any hate
signs of hate against PBO there is a diference and why some people are paying attention to the MSM talking
heads there get paid a lot’s of money to spin there B.S.
Tell me nintendo. Have you seen these ows peeps who appear on teevee sock it to the rethugs as much they have done it to dems ? I haven’t and hence my distrust of that movement.
They aren’t because they want to be an “apolitical” movement which I can understand. The Civil Rights Movement of the 60s was apolitical, do you think that we would have had the Civil Rights Act passed had the liberal Republicans and few liberal Democrats of that time got behind it and used it as a political platform?
And most Americans could care less about “socking it to the Repubs,” that’s political kabuki theater that gets NOTHING done. Anthony Wiener and Alan Grayson socked it to the Republicans all the time, and they got soundly kicked out of office because that’s all they did.
The fact that they launch into dem bashing proves that they aren’t an apolitical movement. Do you seriously think that the fatcats give a shite about what a coupla thousands protest about ? Why should they be afraid (it seems to be a fantasy reality cooked by the lw blogs) of buncha people when they know they own the congress critters who will do anything they want ? As I said above, right cause, wrong target. So it will fail.
Comparing this to civil rights movement ? puhleeze.
Maybe a few of them are upset at Democrats, and that is their right, as I’ve been upset with Democrats myself, especially the extreme left ones like Dennis Kucinich and the right wing ones like Mary Landrieu.
And yes, the fat cats DO give a shit, look at all the Republicans and right wing talkers attempting to stop them… last time I checked, a lot of them ARE millionaires, so they do indeed care about what these folks are doing.
Right cause, wrong target? The right wingers are complaining, how is that the “wrong target”?
You’re saying that it will fail IMO is not different than the right wing saying that it will fail.
Right wingers complaining is a mark of success ? Really ? They have been complaining for decades now. So what else is new ?
“You’re saying that it will fail IMO is not different than the right wing saying that it will fail.”.
Yeah, that’s the same. I am a right winger since I don’t “support” some scatter brained protest. Got it.
Yes, right wingers complaining is a HUGE sign of success, it shows and proves that this ISN’T a Tea Party or Republican operation. Heck why else are right wingers showing up at OWS to muddy up the message? Because these OWS folks are being effective.
And yes, you saying the OWS protests will fail is EXACTLY like the right wing saying it will fail. Have to call a spade a spade. While you might think the protest is “scatterbrained,” they’re actually driving even Glenn Beck insane to the point where he’s saying these OWS folks are going to go out and slaughter people, and anytime the right wing is delusional and crying is a good day in my book.
Say what you want about these OWS folks being crazy, but they are fighting the right wing, and in order for us Obamabots to get the things we want (AJA, Obama re elected) we need to combat and fight the right wing, and that’s what these OWS folks are doing.
I am calling a spade a spade. This wrongly focused ‘protest’ will fail. You can’t seem to handle the truth.
And I have seen the “oh, he/she pwned this or that rw’er on teh teevee/radio” dances too much to give your claim of right wingers being afraid any credence.
When I see the ows folks fighting the right wingers, the corporate media and the corrupt congress critters (dem or rethugs doesn’t matter), I will give them credit. Until then, I will not fall all this hype.
I don’t see how a protest is “wrongly focused” when it’s got 80% of elected Republicans and the right wing being vocally LOUD against it and even sending in their own plants to pose as supporters of the movement in order for it to fail.
Eric Cantor calling them “mobs,” Herman Cain calling them “unAmerican,” Glenn Beck saying that they will drag people into the streets and slaughter them, I’m supposed to believe that they are lying through their teeth and are willing to sink a movement that benefits them?
Then you are NOT “apolitical.” And neither is OWS. So stop using that excuse about being “apolitical.”
And if anyone claims to be upset with the Democrats and are bashing them all the time, then they should be doubly upset with the Repubs and bashing them TWICE as much. Even Landrieu is BETTER than the average Repub in congress.
I never said I was “apolitical,” I said they were.
And like I said, many of them are cynical to the point to where they don’t even care about Democrat or Republican, and I can’t blame them. There have been too many Democrats and Republicans sitting on the sidelines getting nothing done, so I can see why they don’t give a shit about either party at this point.
They are not apolitical either. Almost every other sentence they utter has an Obama criticism. The statement from the original OWS group was to take their grievance to President Obama and demand that he form a Presidential commission to do X, Y and Z. How can you claim that they are apolitical?
if OWS is frustraited equally with democrats and repubs, why are they only bashing the president and democrats?
This is NOT a civil rights movement this is an economic movement we are in a diferent time zone.
With all due respect, nintendowii10, I think you do a great deal of disservice to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960′s by comparing it with this amorphous OWS! The Civil Rights movement had specific goals. The civil rights movements utilized a variety of tactics including: Boycotts, Sit-ins, Freedom rides, Marches, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, massive voter registrations. To suggest that the Civil Rights Movement was “apolitical” or non-partisan is totally false. It’s true that the majority of Southern Democrats (Dixiecrats) opposed the Civil Right Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights of 1965. It is also true that a few liberal Republicans in the North supported both laws. But the vast majority of members of Congress who voted for these laws were Democrats. Hence the reason why African Americans abandoned the party of Lincoln and started voting in overwhelming numbers for Democrats. Besides, many influential Northern Republicans like Ronald Reagan, and Barry Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Laws, particularly the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This is why the passage of these laws precipitated the exodus of the Dixiecrats from the Democratic party to the Republican party. This began with the election of 1964 (Goldwater’s electoral votes were mainly from Southern States) and culminated in Nixon’s Southern strategy that resulted in former Southern Democrats converting to Republicans. For you to suggest, and imply, that the passage of the Civil Rights laws was detached from partisan politics is a total distortion of the history of the Civil Rights Movement and the reality of the politics of the 1960′s and 1970′s.
BOOYAH!!!! Nath you’ve done it again. Used fact to debunk crappy made up mythology. Love it. Thanks so much.
You are most welcome UT! Like you, I really wish people would refrain from using mythology to support weak arguments. Keep up the good work you do for this site!
Thank you, Nintendo. I am not trying to tell people how to think. I’m not saying those here don’t have a right to their opinion. My concern is the knee-jerk reaction to rumors as truth, as someone stated above. To your point, they aren’t calling President Obama names, carrying racist signs, guns or anything.
Third-party? From the left? Ain’t gonna happen. I don’t care who says it or why. And Democrats don’t typically vote for third parties. It would only hurt Republicans so bring it on. Who are they gonna run? Kucinich? Cornell West, Ralph Nader? Please. Only a fool would primary PBO. And only bigger fools would spend one penny on that effort.
The rumors are planted by Karl and his ilk [Jane and her crew to be sure] Grover, Fox News, RNC to induce panic and create division. That’s all I’m saying. Why listen to them and think what they say is actually going to happen??
Fuck Naomi, and the rest of the haters who are trying to co-opt OWS in to their agenda. I heard someone on a Sunday show say that Michele Bachmann should speak to them and I howled!!!
This reminds me so much of the 60s when anyone over 30 was suspect. John Lewis is over 30 so he gets that. They don’t trust this government at all and for good reason. That doesn’t mean they want to primary PBO. That’s just the moles and trolls. They only win if we get all negative and believe their horseshit and turn on each other.
Telling them what they should do, how they should act, who they should target, what they should believe, what they should support . . . why do they have to do what some here think they should?
bjW2–I never said that folks here aren’t doing anything. You are taking exception to something I didn’t say.
Me4Obama–your main concern may be AJA and that’s good. It doesn’t mean it is everyone’s main concern. And that doesn’t make them suspect or wrong.
It is not my intention to attack anyone. This site has been so positive and suddenly, so fear-filled. We’re a year out. Eric Cantor’s scared. The MSM is trying to dismiss something they don’t even understand as they’re part of the 1%–and they want to keep the status quo.
In the words of the late Curtis Mayfield, I plan to stay a believer.
I’m not scared. This is just new noise.
Yes you did say that folks here aren’t doing anything. You said “Most on this blog are sitting at a keyboard complaining and “casting side-eyes.” That’s being disingenuous. You have no right to just assume that we’re twiddling our thumbs on a keyboard all day. Many of us have jobs to go to, schools and colleges to attend and on top of it all, we’re out there registering people to vote, attending local OFA meetings, attending OFA strategy sessions, working with College Democrats at our various colleges to help and advance President Obama’s jobs bill and advance Democratic candidates. We’re not a bunch of people lazying about on OWS sleeping outside in a blanket, decrying capitalism while using our MACs and PCs, using the internet, collecting money oh.. I’m sorry donations
so we can advance our “cause.” Nobody held a gun to their heads. Nobody forced them to sleep outside. How about they go learn of new voter registration laws and register people to vote? That’s actually doing something proactive and advancing a cause instead of chanting zombie like day after day and thinking the media is their friend.
“We’re not a bunch of people lazying about on OWS sleeping outside in a blanket, decrying capitalism while using our MACs and PCs, using the internet”
Call me cynical, but that right there demonstrates one of my points, that some of us attacking this movement are taking talking points against it from the RIGHT WING!!!
I’m sorry, I don’t see these folks “lazing about,” they’re out there making their voices heard and it’s got the right wing running scared. I thought that was something we were supposed to be proud of, that the right wing are scared shitless, and like it or not, we have to fight the right wing, and OWS is one of the many tools at our disposal.
If we don’t fight the right wing, then how can we get the AJA and other important items accomplished? President Obama realizes that while they may not agree with him personally, he can’t dismiss them entirely because they are helping to drive fear into the right wing, which in turn helps him because a weakened and scared right wing = a win for the President = a win for us.
If OWS isn’t your thing, then that’s OK, but I find it extremely hypocritical and foolish to dismiss them entirely and lie about them being a faction of the Tea Party… it’s no different than the right wing saying that George Soros is the secret puppetmaster of the Democrats or that Democrats and Republicans are the same, a lie is a lie.
Just some food for thought.
Thye need to protest in front of the Capitol and the MSM not Wall Street. Wall Street don’t care about the protest, politician do. ABL try to register voters, but she was was not welcome by some. If you not going to register voters or acheived any goals then why protest at all.
This goes back to what I said earlier, we can’t tell others how they should protest. Frankly, I simply don’t believe that these folks are camping out in the park and getting pepper-sprayed and arrested for a month simply because they are anti-Obama.
You’re telling them where they have to protest in order to be ok with you. That’s my point. As Nintento says above, ” they’re out there making their voices heard and it’s got the right wing running scared. I thought that was something we were supposed to be proud of, that the right wing are scared shitless, and like it or not, we have to fight the right wing, and OWS is one of the many tools at our disposal.”
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
You think just beacause a couple of Republicans are scarer mean mission accomplish. Wall Street is not the only problem. Congress is the problem also. Once again what is there goal.
I agree with what you are saying except it should read …’in front of Congress…’
Think about how the media would spin protesters showing up in front of the Capitol. I first saw this suggestion in a comment to an article from someone who was against PBO. Now I’m seeing it on twitter. Which means it is either catching on or being deliberately pushed. Then innocent folk come along and sign up to the idea and violla! a new talking point for the opposition.
If you’re not paying close attention to what you are saying, they can make it sound like you are for protesting the President.
See how easy this is? Now say you were a famous person and the media just got ahold of that statement. This is what they are doing to lots of PBO supporters in attempts to divide. How fast and furious the spin and manipulation travels round the web. Proceed with caution.
We think we are better equipped to handle this kind of stuff, but I am seeing supporters being challenged and questioned while the real ‘enemy’ is being ignored.
All excellent points LunarSea.
The MSM already got the narrative going that the OWS is against Obama. It wouldn’t be any different. The American people do not like congress. It would not hurt if they protest in front of the Capitol.
Sure, it’s foolish to dismiss a group that allies itself with the teaparty. I’m calling BS on your statement Nin. Outright BS. Sureeeee they’re making the rightwing run scared. Pleeease. How about they go find something concrete to do? We have 2012 to worry about and I for one am not in the mood for their aimless distractions.
Uhh… they ARE making the right wing running scared, are Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Fox Propaganda HAPPY to see OWS folks protesting? Last time I checked, they all said that the OWS are “dirty hippies looking for free handouts,” and other words to that effect.
Sure we have 2012 to worry about, I agree there, but a big part of 2012 is, like it or not, fighting the right wing. OWS is driving the right wing nuts, which means they’ll have less energy come 2012, which means we increase our chances at winning. If the right wing continues to win, then how can we win? How can President Obama get re elected if the right wing isn’t weakened? He knows that, which is why even he hasn’t dismissed the OWS entirely.
Call it a distraction, but at least they are helping to weaken the right wing and make them afraid. At least the right wingers aren’t focused on pushing more useless crap with their attention on OWS, which is a good thing IMO.
so with a weakened right wing.. then tomorrow when the senate votes on the AJA- it ought to pass, as all the repubs are sure to be so frightened by the ows protestors- they’ll vote YES. Frankly we could have used those extra voices making phone calls – those extra fingers tweeting and emailing.. and those extra boots marching to Congress.
I’m curious to see how many take their non-partisan, apolitical protest to President Barack Obama when he speaks (tomorrow, I believe in Miami).. on the AJA.
The right wing is NOT running scared at all. They are just appearing on TV for show to pander to their stupid wingnut base, but they aren’t scared. Meanwhile their media is helping them along by allowing Obama-bashing ONLY from OWS supporters.The right wing folks are laughing…all the way to bank -no pun intended.
Actually they are running scared, or did you miss Eric Can’tor calling these folks “mobs,” Herman Cain calling them “unAmerican,” and Glenn Beck going way off the deep end and suggesting OWS are going to take people out into the streets and slaughter them? Call me crazy but that doesn’t sound like a group of right wingers “laughing to the bank.”
As for the media propping up certain OWS folks to bash Obama, it’s the SAME media that props up Arianna Huffington, Cenk Uygar, Keith Olbermann, and other rich liberals as “Obama’s base.” A few bad apples does NOT speak for the entire group, unless you’re willing to cede that Huffington, Uygar, and Olbermann are “Obama’s base.”
This is the usual GOP drivel. It doesn’t man that they are scare.
Yup. This meme that the rightwingers are “scared” is a complete delusional chest thumping idiocy. The right never runs and the left never learns. Fucking 2010 is a proof.
2010 is proof that we DIDN’T fight back against the right wing and let them win. They were actually thumping their chests in the runup to the midterms and they won because NOBODY fought against them.
OWS are fighting back against the right wing, Rush Limbaugh, Fox Propaganda, Glenn Beck, the Republicans ALL want to shut this movement down… if it only helps them, then why are they so vocal in their opposition?
And I’ve got proof that the right wing are indeed running scared… Eric Can’tor calling these folks “mobs,” Herman Cain calling them “unAmerican,” and Glenn Beck going way off the deep end and suggesting OWS are going to take people out into the streets and slaughter them are just three examples, and I can come up with plenty more, that does NOT sound like a group that’s “laughing all the way to the bank…” and why else are they hiring right wing plants to diminish the movement?
Again, limp, beck and other rw nutjobs trashing left movements is not new But then left’s political tactics are futile is not new either. ows is the latest shiny object that is dangled before the easily distracted left.
OWS is doing a heck of a lot more to fight against the right wing than ANYONE did last fall. Last fall, I only saw the Teabags protesting, virtually NO counterprotests, and the Teabags won.
I’d rather the OWS folks continue to protest than to sit back and let the right wing continue to talk smack and spread lies and propaganda unchallenged. While many of them may NOT support the President, at least the President isn’t taking on the right wing alone. Would you rather that the President be forced to face the right wing all by himself or would you rather he gets all the help he can get, even from opponents who don’t like Republicans, but aren’t 100% onboard with the President or Democrats? As long as the right wing stay focused more on OWS, they aren’t passing useless crap that gets nothing done, which is good IMO.
dood, I am done.
I’ve read all your comments. Until I hear somebody in the OWS stand up and say that President Obama has been fighting for the middle class and poor people since entering office, I’m on the sidelines. They have given Cornel West a seat at the table – the man who called the President a “black mascot”. And who accused the President of letting WallStreet crooks walk free. They have given Naomi Klein “more than just a seat” and she goes on TV and tells people NOT to vote. Now maybe OWS cannot control who gets on TV, but somebody ought to have access to media to debunk the anti-Obama crap and the effort to persuade people to stay away from the voting booths.
If the OWS movement is about the middle class and poor people then why in the world are they NOT chanting pass the AMERICAN JOBS ACT? WHAT ELSE IS ON THE TABLE?? Do they think some magical unicorn is going to come down from the skies and make everything all better? Unless they plan on overthrowing the government, they better figure out, FIRST how the government works and SECOND how to get positive legislation passed. OH, BUT REALLY FIRST, they better figure out how the hell we’re going to stop this voter suppression going on that may take away the voting rights of 3 MILLION people .
Nintendo, please give me an example of an OWS representative bashing a prominent Repblican – like speaker Boehner, or GOP candidate like Mitt Romney.
I give you Alan Grayson, who I believe has praised OWS and did nothing BUT bash Republicans during his entire House tenure, and he got soundly kicked out of office because that’s ALL he did.
As I pointed out, while a few of the OWS folks have bashed Obama, I don’t take their attacks at face value. There’s already at least one account of these “disgruntled Obama supporters” pulling an OKeefe/Brietbart style stunt to diminish the movement. You attempt to make the case that this OWS movement only benefits the right wing, why would the right wing hire plants to diminish their own movement?
At this point, I’m not concerned with them attacking the Republicans as I am concerned with them having no long term goal or objective. But I am not ready to dismiss them outright just because of a few crackpots propped up by the media. At least the right wing is focused more on them than on the President… heck Sean Hannity’s resorted to calling President Obama “President Crybaby” while the OWS movements are happening.
Now you’re being disingenuous. You said they (OWS) were bashing and calling out republicans and that’s why the rightwing was running scared. Now you can’t provide a concrete example of them calling out Cantor, Boehner or even Paul Ryan. You cite Alan Grayson, Mr. PL extraordinaire as an example. Mr. Emoprog himself? How is his congressional career going? Oh yeah… he got kicked out by his constituents because of his verbal diarrhea. How’s that working out for him?
Pleeeeease… unless this movement can get a concrete message, they’re just a bunch of disorganized crackpots popping up in various states and then popping out again. Get a concrete message before you protest and jump on a bandwagon of something that is absolutely rudderless. Until they have a genuine honest concrete philosophy, I for one will continue to watch them with very leery eyes.
@utaustinliberal I NEVER said that they were fighting against the Republicans, I said that they were fighting the right wing, and that is evidenced by 80% of the elected Republicans and right wing media being vocally LOUD against them.
They may not be for President Obama, but they aren’t for the Republicans or right wing either, and last I checked, we’ve gotten more Democrats casually giving support to the movement (President Obama and Nancy Pelosi to name two of them) whereas the right wing wants them to shut up.
You are free to watch them with leery eyes, but dismissing them completely is naive IMO. Like Jax6655 pointed out, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and OWS could be a “frienemy,” a friendly enemy. Oxymoronic I know, but in order to make progress we have to WIN at all costs, which means forming alliances with folks we may not agree with. OWS may or may not last long, but IMO we’d be wise to take advantage of them distracting the right wing.
Nintendo I’m not talking about what Mr. Grayson (who is not even an OWS rep) did while he was in congress. I’m asking you to show me an OWS representative NOW bashing any prominent Republican as part of the OWS protests. The fact that you needed to stretch to Grayson when he was still in congress over a year ago is evident that you don’t really have a credible response to my question.
Ninento,
isnt Ron Paul part of the Right Wing? Isn’t he a Repub? Aren’t Republicans part of the right-wing?
@hopefruit2 when I say “right wing,” I’m referring to the folks like Limbaugh, Beck, Fox Propaganda who are NOT elected to office.
As for Grayson, I only brought him up because he was on Randi Rhodes show talking about and praising OWS. But if he’s not good enough for you, how about Bernie Sanders, from one of your own links, he’s attacked Republicans and he’s being embraced by OWS according to your own link… and he’s also attacked POTUS, but then again, he’s another one of the “bad apples” speaking for an entire group.
As long as the elected Republicans and the right wingers bitch about OWS, they are free to protest as much as they want, and the more time that the Republicans and right wing spend on attacking OWS, the less time they have to attack our President and derail his agenda. That’s a win-win in my book.
@Nintendowii10. The fact that you trot out Sanders and Grayson means hopefruit was right. You have no credible evidence of the OWS people calling out republicans and rightwingers like they’ve been bashing President Obama. And for your information republican and rightwing are virtually one and the same and for you to separate them shows your political naivete. As for your assertions that we need to court an unknown entity for the battle in 2012 shows even more how politically naive you are. Why would anyone with a modicum of political savvy want to co-opt a group they don’t know their full and honest intentions. You see how the republicans co-opted the teaparty and now the teaparty is ruining the republican party. They’re ruining them because the republicans co-opted a movement they knew virtually nothing about and you suggest President Obama and Democrats do the same. That’s freaking political suicide and the fact you don’t see that goes to show just once again how politically naive you are.
@utaustinliberal “Right wing” and “Republican” are NOT the same, and I explained it. When I said “Right wing,” I was referring to the right wing media folks that aren’t elected into office.
And calling me politically naive? You once again make a false parallel comparing this movement to the Tea Party. The Tea Party was BOUGHT and PAID FOR, and the reason why they are hurting the Republican party is because they actually wasted time elected Tea Party folks to office.
You made a point that OWS aren’t attacking Republicans, which means they are apolitical. The only OWS folks bashing the President are the few crackpots posted by the media, at least one that has been exposed as a right wing plant… and I already made the point that if you want to believe that the crackpots that the media picks from OWS to bash the President respresent ALL of OWS, then you have to also believe that Huffington, Uygar, Olbermann, and other rich liberals are “Obama’s base” because the media props them up as “Obama’s base.” Can’t have it both ways.
And calling me politically naive was the lowest of the low. I never personally insulted you or anyone else who disagreed with me on the topic of OWS, I just posted my thoughts and stated it’s alright to be skeptical, but be skeptical with facts and the truth. The truth is I’m willing to focus on the positive of OWS which is them causing the right wing to be afraid (I’ve been on MediaMatters and seen nothing BUT hatred from the right wing towards OWS) whereas you and others focus on the negative meme from the media.
I’ll admit, I don’t know all the facts, but I’m not willing to dismiss this movement entirely. If the right wing and elected Republicans are up in arms, OWS are doing something right.
@Nintendowii10 In this day and age rightwing and republican are one and the same and if you don’t see that it means your’re politically naive. That’s not an insult. It’s just a fact. How can you say OWS is apolitical. The minute they began bashing President Obama they became political. You think they weren’t funded by some corporation? How about you go research Ad Busters before you keep on naively chastising the rest of us for being skeptical and not jumping on the loony bandwagon. Ad Busters began the OWS faction because they wanted people to go out in the streets and nastily demand President Obama do X, Y, and Z and if he didn’t kowtow to their demands then that showed he was in bed with Wall Street. The minute Ad Busters sent out the memo that people should go into the streets on September 17, 2011 and demand President Obama set up a Presidential Commission to immediately prosecute Wall Street it became political. The minute Ad Busters said it saw itself as an extension of the teaparty it became political. The minute Ad Busters put out magazines depicting President Obama as a clown and a crony of Wall Street it became political. It has always been political before the first leg stepped onto Wall Street and the chanting began. Frankly, it’s politically naive for you not to research the facts before you jump 100% into praising the movement and depiciting them as President Obama’s and the Democrats saviors. Please….. that’s outright hogwash. Come back with sound solid facts before you castigate us skeptics for not blindly following you and your fellow OWS cheer gallery into the crackpot fray.
Jax66555 right again , but why do we have to go back in talking about the past? this is the 21st century
my children do not understand about the civil rights movement and how much they did for the new generations
This is History is like the GOP likes to talk about Ronald Reagan , reagan is the past, PBO is the President for
the 21at Century and a clear VISION for the COUNTRY.
People are just expressing differences of opinion, Jax. Everybody doesn’t have to agree. It’s okay
.
Amen.
I’ll repost my response from the previous thread (I was late to the game):
Food for thought – thanks.
Keep in mind there also are men and women on TOD who are white and in their 50s – and dare I say 60s (me) – who are from the old school and remember the events of the 1960s, which you describe. Some of our recollections are not nearly as real or vivid as yours, to be sure. But as that personal history will always inform your opinion, it will also inform ours – regarding today’s events in our country and beyond.
What I’ve picked up on @ TOD is not so much negativity, as a learned fear of trusting anything that has the slightest inkling of turning anti-Obama. Why? Because we have all been victims of seeing that since the day after his Inauguration. Hopefully, I’m not the only one that thinks that when we discuss negative thoughts or feelings, we are doing so for the purpose of helping each other get through them – so we may focus on our real, clear mission: to support President Obama now and get him re-elected for a second term, for the good of everybody in our country and the world.
Hope you can understand my point of view, as I do yours.
Thank you for that thoughtful comment, JOB.
Jaxx6655; Do you support people telling millions of people not to vote in 2012, do you support people constantly bashing President Obama? Do you support people who are scattered ( that’s putting it kindly) and whose message is convoluted? Do you support a Canadian corporation who sees themself as an extension of the teaparty and were the ones who began this so called “movement?”, do you support a faction that seems to be chock full of Ron Paulites, libertarians, emoprogs, professional lefties who use this so called “movement” as a breeding ground to undermine President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who thought their main mission was to hurl racial slurs and epithets about President Obama? Do you support OWS Chicago who went to PBO’s Chicago campaign HQ’s to cause a disgusting ruckus? Do you support a so called “movement” who keeps tying PBO to wallstreet and calling him a crony of Wallstreet? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are blocking Richard Cordray’s nomination to head of the CFPB; an agency that actually stops the predatory practices of wallstreet and big banks? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to see the truth in front of them that republicans are trying to defund Dodd-Frank financial reform law and drastically slow down the implementation of the law? Do you support a “movement” that aimlessly wanders about chanting in a zombie like manner instead of doing something proactive like registering people to vote in 2012 so GOPTeabaggers can be kicked out, Dems can retain the whitehouse and both chambers of congress and progress can finally be restored? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want money out of elections they should find a legal channel to strike down Citizens United? Do you support a “movement” that doesn’t seem to understand that if they want the economy to improve or obtain jobs that will boost the middleclass they should petition congress to pass President Obama’s American Jobs Act?
Don’t harshly castigate us just because unlike you we refuse to jump on the bandwagon of a movement that is scattered and bizzare. Don’t castigate us just because unlike you we refuse to jump on the bandwagon of a movement that is has extensions and connections to the teaparty. This website is NOTHING like GOS so please refrain from using such erroneous and disgusting comparison. We use critical thinking skills on this website and it is human nature to be leery of a disorganized faction instead of jumping in impulsively. So what if they’re living outdoors. No one held a gun to their heads. They have internet, 21st century technology, food, water, music and a whole host of stuff. If they’re whining about being outdoors how about they go back inside. It’s a voluntary movement and I for one am not going to show sympathy for their useless whining and moaning. Are they the only ones who’ve ever protested? Please……. cry me a freaking river. Just because Cantor and Republicans don’t like them doesn’t mean we should automatically cheer their movement. What kind of crappy group think is that? If you want to join their movement that’s your business; but don’t come here and say this website is turning into GOS or spewing negativity 24/7 because in my opinion you do us a grave disservice and are frankly spewing BS.
I hear you Jax6655. Of late there seems to be a constant drum beat of them vs us, as you noted, emanating from this wonderful site. While I also understand most of concerns being posted here, they seem to be amplified quite a bit these days. Oddly both stance are valid and neither should be dismissed.
I am happy for the protests. But if we only focus on the negative side of it, we will never benefit from the positive. The positive is ppl around the country -and world- are saying no more of this crazy disparity between the powerful few and common masses. That is a message we have been saying for years, but no one listened. Now they are. That is good.
Unfortunately we focus on and repeat the most negative sound bites, which gets our blood boiling and we wind up going at each other.
I think the loud noises coming from the RWNJ indicates they are worried. As they get more worried we will hear more news and sound bites designed to divide us. We must not succumb to this tactic.
And yes, the movement has nefarious beginnings. But I think most ppl in the streets are not aware of this. Their presence is genuine. Some may blame Obama, most don’t. I know the unions are most solidly dems and all these nurses, pilots, machine workers and other unions will be able to use this movement wisely, unless we turn them against it.
I also want to again repeat; Know the difference between genuine concern or disagreement and divisive comments. Divisive comments tend to harp on small phrases repeated ad hominem via #mediafail until everyone is agreeing in righteous indignation. From reactions here I believe most know that already but it bears repeating.
Please, our paths may be different but our goals are the same more or less. One of the ways the republicans calvanized different factions was they had a common anti-abortion theme among groups who were suspicious of each other.
We have a unifying theme here of wall st versus the middle class. Let’s not do that Dem thing and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory…..again!
/rant
Luvs
Very well said. You make some excellent points. Thanks.
Please , please, please please listen to George Clooney he was right we at TOD are on the same page
we support PBO all the way and respect our opinions it’s O.K we are in this together press on.
I haven’t really commented on the OWS protests, mainly because I’m a bit of a skeptic with most things, especially things that are as non-specific as the OWS protest currently seem to be, I have nothing against them, but I’m not totally 100% comfortable supporting them, so I’ve chosen to just not comment on threads or post about them. That has been hard to do, since it seems that a good number of the blogs I frequent is all OWS all the time. I’ve found that I’ve subconsciously stopped frequenting some of those blogs I used to because even though I’m cynical about the OWS movement and I do think something important is happening, BUT there are other just as important things happening as the OWS, like voter suppression laws, the AJA, unemployment, education disparity…etc that I would also like to discuss, but OWS is kinda pushing those things off the page.
I’m not bothered by the OWS protest, nor am I bothered by all the talk about the OWS protest, but I am bothered by the sense that some of the more sympathetic OWS supporters are going around and making it seem like those of us who are real concerned skeptics about the OWS protest, are somehow “against” the protests, and that couldn’t be farthest from the case. I think things are happening, but I’ve been focusing my attention on those other things, and just keeping abreast of the reports from OWS. Right now, I’m just not feeling them, but doesn’t mean I don’t think they are important.
Jax6655,
With all due respect – I have said and continue to say that unless I have evidence to the contrary, I will treat OWS as a third party movement. On one of the threads yesterday, you asked me specific questions about where did I get the “third party” from. I provided you links to the original OWS creators’ website (Adbusters.org). I also cited where the magazine editor (KALLE LASN) and company founder specifically stated his desire to form a third party which was separate from either the Democrats or Republicans. I also showed you where he said that the Tea Party had a “promising start” in holding corporations accountable, but that more was needed.
I notice that you did not refute or challenge any of my responses to your questions, or links provided. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps you did not even get a chance to read my responses to your questions. Here is a link to the thread in which our exchange took place.
http://theobamadiary.com/2011/10/09/chat-away-3/#comments
Now you stated that “you are afraid of what is happening to our site.” What exactly are you afraid of? That we are unequivocal in our support for President Obama? That we are highly focused and dedicated towards getting him re-elected in 2012? In case you aren’t aware, the name of this site is “The OBAMA Diary.” That should tell you that this is a site that is 100% pro-Obama and yes you SHOULD expect to find people who are 100% supportive of this President, and skeptical of others or organizations who are vague about their intentions, attitudes and level of support for him.
In the earlier thread that I linked, you spoke very highly of Jesse LaGreca (DKOS Blogger) as someone who represented OWS, and said that his message was apolitical. You also implied in your comment above that “no one from OWS listens to or cares about Cornel West.” Really? Because I have a link to a DKOS diary written by Jesse LaGreca, who spoke of meeting Cornel West who gave a speech at one of the OWS gatherings. The diary in fact was ABOUT CORNEL WEST’s SPEECH, and LaGreca was extremely impressed by that speech. In fact there was a second diary from this same blogger that featured Cornel West in relation to the OWS protests.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/28/1020852/-Dr-Cornel-West,-OccupyWallStreet-AMAZING-speech,-MLK-Jr-would-smile-from-the-grave!-OUR-VOICE!?via=blog_643492
Cornel West is well known for his antagonism towards the President, and had recently went on some endeavor to mount a primary against the President. So maybe I’m a little less than comfortable with the idea of OWS embracing someone like West. West is certainly not “apolitical.” Neither is Michael Moore who has also called for a primary to our President, and who was also praised and featured in a different diary by the same Jesse LaGreca.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/29/1021128/-Michael-Moore-TORCHES-Class-War-meme-at-OccupyWallStreet,-Day-12-photo-blog?via=blog_643492
After someone asked why weren’t the OWS protesters trying to pass the AJA bill, or supporting Warren’s vetted nominee for the consumer bureau protections, you responded by saying that because LaGreca was “apolitical” he would not and should not be talking about Liz Warren, or President Obama since they are both involved in politics. So then why is Senator Bernie Sanders featured front and center in one of LaGreca’s OWS diaries? They claimed they didn’t want it to be political, but they are honored to have Sanders as an ally in OWS?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/30/1021452/-Bernie-Sanders-supports-OccupyWallStreet,-I-interview-CBS-and-HankNYNY-rocks-the-house?via=blog_643492
Furthermore, in the last several months to a year, all three of these individuals have been highly critical of the President, and have had very little to say about the Republicans. So I guess you can understand where I’m coming from when I express concern and extraordinary skepticism about this movement.
Hopefruit you are so on the job, thank you! Again I certainly was unaware of this info.. and shines a brighter light (for me) on Mr. LaGreca.. although I knew of him somewhat from dkos. Yep just too many questions about this whole thing.
Wow. Great information. “That is all,” as they say.
hopefruit, I want to be like you and utaustin, You two take no prisoners and got the facts to back them up. Well stated and documented. Listen up, lurkers and deniers, and anyone else (no offense to the commenters here), hopefruit and utaustin, they got skills and will rag on you if you don’t come correct. Mercy
I have to speak to you about this before. Your nasty habit of bringing in facts when we are all having a bong party.
Thank you so much for those pesky facts. I’m not a joiner by nature. So there’s no way I’m jumping on the OWS bandwagon without knowing what their agenda is. Besides where some folks reside I just don’t want to be.
Bravo, hopefruit! Thanks for expressing so well what I ,and many others on this site, think and believe. The people at OWS can’t have it both ways. They can’t expect our support: when they prominently feature vocal bashers of President Obama; pretend to be neutral, nonpatisan, and “apolitical,” in this highly partisan environment, when the teabag-Republicans are sayin NO to everything President Obama proposes to help the poor and middle class workers; or are totaly silent when it comes to supporting the President’s jobs bill aimed at putting millions of unemployed Americans to work as well continue to provide unemployment insurance for those still unable to find jobs. Speaking for myself I just can’t enthusiastically embrace this conflicted amorphous movement that has not clearly stated its goals. I just want to know what the movement hopes to accomplish that couldn’t be accomplished by massive mobilization of voters to vote against the enablers of Wall Street in Congress and the Presidency. Many of us on this site have been upfront and honest about our committed support for President Obama. Many of us have also been very clear that we prefer pragmatic and concrete solutions to problems rather than the constant complaints that undermine efforts to make progress in addressing the immediate needs of people. We also prefer programs that lay the foundation for future and more meaningful change. I understand and share many of the frustrations by those OWS movement. I can even go along with the tactic of protesting on Wall Street, if it is one of the tactics used that include mobilizing voters to elect people who support the cause of neutralizing the power of corporate America. But simply making OWS the end while neglecting the importance of electing a government to rein corporate power, seems to me to be self defeating.
Reposting my reply:
Jax6655,
You and I are the same age. Yes there are some here (including myself) that suspicous of this group and there intentions to bring down the president when he is trying his best to make things better only to be stopped by the RW GOTP. My concern is that they are not protesting the names of Boehner, McConnell, Cantor, etc. They seem to only call out the Presidents name and are showing disrespect.
OWS is very diverse with hispanic, black, asian, young and old. Whoever is seeing very few black and saying it’s not diverse I would disagree with that. However, I would like to know more about what they want and how they are going to get what they want politically. I saw Jesse La Greca on CNN Sunday and they tried very hard to get him to say whether he was made at the President. I think what he said was fair that he wanted the politicians to LISTEN to them. He was not advocating for one side or the other, just whichever side that would come to them and LISTEN. I am just wondering if this is what the group wants, why did they turn away Rep John Lewis? I understand he was not mad and maybe they had other speakers and he could not stick around….then bad on him. He should have stuck around.
Jax6655, school us here….tell us what is it that OWS is trying to achieve now that they have gotten the media’s attention. Do they want it to continue to grow until it is in all 50 states and territories? Do they want the pols to come to them? what?
I am in no way a representative of OWS so I can’t school you. I am basically concerned about the dismissal out of hand by some commentors on this site. I don’t think that we can say that because they don’t 1. actively support AJA, 2. protest Boehner, Cantor, et al, or 3. think the movement is diverse [wrong] that they are not to be trusted.
Also, OWS has gotten the media’s attention, but the people that they’re allowing to speak are not necessarily representative of the movement. It seems to represent discontent and then manifest itself . . . however.
What are they trying to achieve? I think we’ll have to look to YouTube and other INDEPENDENT sources to determine that for ourselves. MSM is trying to spin it for the 1%. And to piss off folks who frequent sites like these. Which is why I am pushing back.
I neither support or disparage OWS, I’m just saying there’s more to this movement than the MSM is telling us. And that it’s spun in large part by forces who are trying to co-opt it for their own purposes. Like the Tea Party. Except it won’t work this time.
There’s something happening here. . . .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjSpO2B6G4s
Thank you Jax6655. I will check it out.
Saw this coming from a mile away. Always does…like clockwork.
As I was explaining the other day, I feel this is a “divide and conquer” tactic now with the MegaMedia and Repub operatives. I’ll give the last 48 hours in the comments of this blog alone as more evidence. Curious why you’d get so insulting toward many readers here as you did above, especially since my comments, and the comments from others to you the other day were respectful for the most part. Just honest difference of opinion about a group.
We have a major piece of legislation and a nominee for the Conumer Protection Bureau happening RIGHT NOW, and it needs every bit of support and activism possible to help our President.
I asked this one question many times the other day here and received no answer, including from you, Jax. I have seen no mention of this question in the MegaMedia I’ve seen cover this OWS thing. It is the most fundamental question of all this and it’s being avoided completely as far I can tell…
Why now? Why right when we have these historic legislative battles right before us does the supposed “movement” spring up and take all the oxygen from what the President is trying to do, including here on this blog. Why now?
Can any OWS supporters here imagine with me all this energy and time expended upon OWS instead spent on Pass This Bill. Where do you think support for AJA would be right now if all these people were out there chanting Pass This Bill? Seems like a fair question.
It’s a very fair question.
I FEEL YA…COMPLETELY!!!!
WE MUST CONTINUE TO PRESS ON!!!!!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!!
JAX6655, I have become confused as to why OWS’s message keeps changing. The first one in NY was towards Wall Street and in support of 99% – was ok. Then groups began to pop up in various city/states. Like the one we have here in Los Angeles. A reporter from our local television station, KTLA asked one of the campers (at our City Hall), what was the message and what would it take for the campers to leave the lawn of City Hall, and the guy stated that the message had not been clearly defined and he wasn’t sure what it would take because he didn’t know who the leader(s) were. Now, they’ve been camped out on the lawn for a couple of weeks and he doesn’t know who the leader is and what’s the message?
How can I support this?
I’m all for supporting a message – like the one’s our President presents for AJA and health care, jobs, voter rights.
Just make the message clear and consistent.
I hope this OK to put this here.
Eliabeth Warren.
I’ve seen this video. It’s very powerful. It’s amazing that the lefties who bow to Bill Clinton never bring up the absolutely devastating effects of the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act. The financial crash of 2008 can be traced back to that horrendous legislative act.
Al is on board with the occupation, so I assume many here who like and respect him might rethink their opinion. Sounds like the same with Melissa Harris-Perry.
I love and respect Rev Al and Melissa Harris-Perry. However, besides their words on MSNBC, nothing has changed from from my vantage point between this afternoon when I was highly skeptical to now when I’m still highly skeptical.
I always leave open the possibility that I am wrong about OWS, and there is nothing that would relieve me more than to find out that I was in fact mistaken.
Actually dotster, even though I like and respect Rev. Al Sharpton, I watched the segment with MHP and Van Jones and I’m still not rethinking my opinion on OWS. None of them could articulate the philosophy of OWS. None of them could articulate in a nutshell exactly what OWS stood for. None of them could articulate what OWS’s mandate is. None of them could articulate concrete measures OWS could take to make sure whatever message they eventually come up with could reach the halls of congress. So, nope; I’m not 100% sold on OWS and I’m still watching them with very very leery eyes.
dotster3 – If Rev Al and MHP can’t make it clear what the OWS message is, then, I still can’t just BLINDLY support it.
Don’t you think your statement was a little condescending?
Not biting. Just because Rev Al is for it, doesn’t mean I am. He’s my go-to person of radio for info and championing PBO’s agenda. Other than that, I think about this a bit more skeptically. Who knows, maybe Rev Al is just feeling this all out for himself, and will form a more concrete opinion on the OWS. I think this also helps him get his agenda across for the march on October 16, so hopefully some of those “enlightened” folks protesting God knows what will join him for a specific agenda, and that is jobs, which is the number one concern for most Americans these days.
Just because Rev Al is for the “occupation” (was that a put-down because that’s what he called it – Wall Street “Occupation instead of “Occupy”) doesn’t mean that because I respect him and Harris-Perry is enough to persuade me. I don’t agree with Rev Al nor Harris-Perry about everything they say. I disagreed with Harris-Perry’s opinion on Lawrence O’Donnell’s question to Herman Cain – I had no problem with it. So for me, two endorsements are not enough.
If Rev Aland MHP are able to swing the present narrative towards proper target, I am all for it.
Love this. Love the drums. The drumming in the state capitol in Madison was so fantastic. Protesting has been taken to a new level!
WOW!!!!
That got me fired up!~
This should be addressed to Congress and not Wall Street! Wall Street has no power to “reinstate Glass Steagal!”
The “loner” crap started with WAPO over the weekend
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/obama-the-loner/2011/10/10/gIQAF2u8ZL_blog.html
I could not bear to read it cause it’s inside the beltway bullshit and does not reflect how the people feel about PBO.
Just wait until he really starts campaigning. UGH.
I guess if you don’t have a bevy of friends from DC, then you’re a loner.
I’m glad he’s kept his close circle of friends from DC….it keeps down the back-biters.
That is what bothers them the most, he doesn’t attend their cocktail parties, and he didn’t invite Sally whatshername to the WH. It really gets them that POTUS and FLOTUS invite the children in DC to the WH and like to spend time with real people instead of beltway gossips!!
W didn’t invite Sally and her crowd over and they didn’t like it, but his reason included having to be asleep by 8 or 9 p.m., after he ate his pretzels. Or else they were at Crawford.
I don’t remember the Clintons out carousing much with the D.C. social crowd, either.
LMAO! “after he ate all his pretzels!”
Hahahaha, ate his pretzels. Oh God, that was a LOL for me just now.
LOL!
His close friends are old Chgo friends. They are the ones he vacatons with, golfs with, and Camp Davids with. He trusts them. And President Obama did try in the beginning, inviting Congress people over for games, some Repubs too, and like they said, the Wed. cocktail parties. But there was no reciprocation to all that kindness, just more obstruction and false slander. And I think he just decided to heck with them, and just kept pressing on. The one thing I will agree with in that dumb report was that he could use some surrogates speaking on his behalf. I have been so disappointed and disgusted that more Democrats have not stepped forward to support him on important initiatives. And he will need Dems to be agressive in getting air time to support his campaign and to defend his policies. So often it does seem like it’s Obama or nobody selling his policies and having to shoulder the whole burden by himself.
Yup dotser. No dem talking heads I have seen but some one here claimed that dems are holding PC’s everywhere but I am not seeing it reported anywhere.
Because for years it has been all about “THEM”. Remember, the president was only in the state senate two years and in the Senate for two years so he has not been soiled with “the business as usual” crap that they have endured. They need Wall Street so they won’t have to campaign very hard. They can collect money and dole out favors after they get re-elected.
Even if PBO has ever wanted to socialize with these miscreants, how the heck does he have the time? Look at how little time he is afforded for his only family. Two wars, other conflicts, ever-present homeland security issues, a recalcitrant economy, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, horrilbe congresscritters constantly obstructing his attempts, mid term elections with his input, the msm 24/7 abuse. All this besides the many diplomatic occasions as President. They try to say he’s always campaigning, and actually he’s never had the luxury of not doing so as he is his best representative. I thank God for him and will not take any shit thrown at him from anybody. Anyone should just put their self in his place for one day. Yes, he is the President and yes, he did run for this job, but he had millions supporting him in that effort, and now finds thousands abandoning him. Luckily the number is comparatively small, but in this climate, he needs us even more than before. So, he has no time for the schmoozing, except for with his die hard supporters. Why waste time on rubbish ?
AND LETS NOT FORGET…MANY IN THE DEM PARTY ARE PISSED AT THE PRESIDENT FOR NOT ASKING for THEIR PERMISSION TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT…THEY ALL WERE FOR HILARY(at least 1/2 of them) he was suppose to wait his turn…UGH!!!!
I read ‘loner” = not corrupted by beltway. Fuck’em.
Exactly, they can’t handle that he isn’t clamoring to be part of their inner sanctum……they are rejected, dejected and very, very, bitter.
Not only that, but he actually likes to spend time with his kids and family instead of hanging out at cocktail parties. He prefers trying to have a normal grounded life like he had before. Plus Obama has always stuck me as a man who likes simple pleasures such as reading, tv, nibbling on his favorite foods, enjoying a round of golf, to spending nights at somebody’s cocktail party. And he knows he’ll be going back to Chicago in a few years, so why not keep up his ties?
Don’t forget playing with his many electronic gadgets….his personal ipad2 from his late friend Steve Jobs.
THIS
PBO doesn’t frequent their ridiculous cocktail weenie parties so their fee fees are hurt. Waaaah. They are complete bores and do nothing to contribute to the progress of our nation, so of course he doesn’t associate with their ilk. Not enough hours in the day to bide his time with empty social climbers. PFFFFTTT!! Screw them.
OKay. Settling in with Rev. Al re: the OWS movement. He’s making it plain. In typical Al fashion, he’s beating the repugs about the head and shoulders.
Rev. Al is going to go back and spend a night at OWS and bring some clergy with him.
Van Jones: “There may not be message clarity, but there is moral clarity.”
Great quote. That could have been describing Madison this spring! In many ways I see OWS as a natural extension of what started in Madison.
Hiya Vicky, don’t forget to sign in when you’re commenting, I keep finding you sad and lonely in pending!
Wisconsin had a clear goal, with a clear step-by-step plan on how to achieve it. Tents were set up at the protests for registering voters and providing information for the recalls, and they’ve shifted that now after the success of the legislative recalls, to the governor.
Wisconsin was the opposite of “apolitical” and “unfocused.” They were and are laser-focused on the politics. Nothing like OWS, who are actually hurting the chances of good legislation getting passed by sucking up all the energy and media time.
Exactly.
Amen, Bonkers.
Happy Birthday, Desraye! Fired up for your birthday, and 2012 elections!
Thank you.
With all due respect to Van Jones, having “moral clarity” means nothing for the poor and unemployed if you have not mobilized political power to try to address their real needs. Even Jesus, with all his moral clarity, had to perform miracles, with bread and fish, in order to feed the multitudes of the poor. My fundamental problem with the OWS movement is the lack of specific and practical goals that are to be achieved as a result of occupying Wall Street. Why occupy Wall Street and not Capital Hill? Or, if you must occupy Wall Street, for some psychic gratification, why not occupy both Wall Street and Capital Hill? How is the occupation of Wall Street going to help ease unemployment? Will the occupation of Wall Street force Congress to pass the AJA, which includes the extension of Unemployment insurance set to expire at the end of the year? Is the occupation of Wall Street aimed at putting teachers fire fighters, police and construction workers back to work? Or is the main goal of OWS the shaming of corporate capitalists to induce them to turn against the evils of corporate capitalism and become “born again” socialists? Obviously, if OWS is all about expressing anger and frustration about the evils of corporate capitalism I am all for it. So long as this expression is not seen as the solution to the economic problems, both short and long term, that are facing the country. And, so long as it is not seen as a substitute for political mobilization aimed at preventing Republicans from regaining total power of the U.S. government by controlling all the three branches. Obviously, if OWS degenerates into an Obama bash feast, then I should absolutely nothing to do with it.
I just got chills behind what Melissa Hart Perry just said about Americans using their physical bodies in public spaces because it’s all they have left to speak against the power of money.
I won’t even repeat what Glenn Beck said. It’s too disgusting. He is insane.
They’re getting desperate. That’s one of the reasons why I think this may turn out to be a helpful movement.
Glenn Beck is just pissed off that Fox Propaganda canned his ass and he’s trying to outcraze Rush Limbaugh.
As usual. Thank God he is not on teevee anymore.
If I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. It’s not Black voters Obama has to worry about despite what certain CBC members say.
WARNING, this is a HuffPo link
President Obama’s Job Approval Ratings Remain High Among Black Voters
I’ll take your word for it.
Anyone who actually thinks Black people would abandon President Obama need to have their heads examined. Black people are fiercely loyal Democrats and after seeing how President Obama has been treated, it strengthens their resolve to stand with him. We just have to make sure they get to the polls and vote in 2012.
Van Jones and MHP on Reverend Al discussing OWS and making excellent points.
I think folks here need to think twice about dismissing OWS, just because a few are anti Obama. I’m sure with the Civil Rights movement of the 60s, folks were against JFK because he wasn’t fully onboard but ultimately Civil Rights Act got passed because people joined and supported the cause.
The Republicans are doing enough to diminish these movements, what the heck are those on here doing by HELPING them? I thought we were supposed to be AGAINST the Republicans?
We need to steer the OWS in the right direction; we’ve got the means to do so, with OFA. OFA knows how to organize and drive the message.
It’s OK to express legit concerns, but to dismiss these OWS protests entirely makes us no different from the Republicans.
As much as I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic about the OWS movement, I can truly understand why others wouldn’t be. I can understand why they would be suspicious of it, and why the would dismiss it. Time will tell, and it will all shake out in the end.
It’s okay — there’s enough work to be done. The AJA, Rev. Al’s March, OFA, voter registration, OWS…… whatever floats your boat. We don’t all have to agree
.
One thing that can’t be denied, however, is that the greedy elite are scared of this movement. They are getting very ugly.
I’m with you, PJ. We don’t all have to agree. I also don’t think there are too many who are totally dismissing OWS, because not too many of us know what it’s all about yet – with the details’ being so scarce. I’m staying very cautiously optimistic, but I’m going to learn for myself whether or not I can support it. To feel comfortable giving my [incredibly important - ha ha] support, I just really don’t want to take someone else’s word for their goals.
Will they protest in front of congress? Will the protest transferred to voting booth? This whole discussion about OWS is making me depressed and its my birthday.
I didn’t make you to feel depressed, just throwing some food for thought.
BTW… Happy Birthday!
Those questions will be answered, either satisfactorily, or not. it will fizzle out, or it won’t. Time will tell. There is no perfect movement.
P.S. Happy Birthday
!
Happy Birthday Desraye. I hope you have the best birthday.
Happy birthday, Desraye! Mine is tomorrow!
Happy Birthday J O’B. My birthday was Saturday.
Happy Birthday Desraye. No despair allowed on your special day!
Happy birthday Desrays.
Nothing to get depressed about. It’s all good and will all work out if we don’t give up and just #presson
Happy Birthday, Desraye!
There’s lots of time left in the day to perk up. Enjoy your evening with the thought that Prez O is still in charge,
Happy Birthday Desraye, hang in there – and enjoy your day (you only get one per year so make the most of it)
have a very Happy Birthday DR
Desraye,
Happy birthday and wishing you many more!!
Happy birthday Desraye.
Happy Birthday!, Desraye, JO’B & Jackie O!
Posted upthread:
I haven’t really commented on the OWS protests, mainly because I’m a bit of a skeptic with most things, especially things that are as non-specific as the OWS protest currently seem to be, I have nothing against them, but I’m not totally 100% comfortable supporting them, so I’ve chosen to just not comment on threads or post about them. That has been hard to do, since it seems that a good number of the blogs I frequent is all OWS all the time. I’ve found that I’ve subconsciously stopped frequenting some of those blogs I used to because even though I’m cynical about the OWS movement and I do think something important is happening, BUT there are other just as important things happening as the OWS, like voter suppression laws, the AJA, unemployment, education disparity…etc that I would also like to discuss, but OWS is kinda pushing those things off the page.
I’m not bothered by the OWS protest, nor am I bothered by all the talk about the OWS protest, but I am bothered by the sense that some of the more sympathetic OWS supporters are going around and making it seem like those of us who are real concerned skeptics about the OWS protest, are somehow “against” the protests, and that couldn’t be farthest from the case. I think things are happening, but I’ve been focusing my attention on those other things, and just keeping abreast of the reports from OWS. Right now, I’m just not feeling them, but doesn’t mean I don’t think they are important.
LOL I was just saying as much up thread. Glad to hear this is their take also, altho they do say it much more eloquently that I ever could.
Cautiously optimistic is the phrase that comes to mind.
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@TheRevAl @VanJones68 6 Goals: Reelect Obama; Dem 113th Congress; Jobs NOW; Repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley; Overturn CitzensUnited; Change SCOTUS
#YesWECanDOMoreTogether
Nice! Way to go, Bobfr.
We can’t do #6 till we do #1 and #2.
Exactly.
That’s why they are in the order they are
But, for the #ows folk, I just want to realize that if they achieved only two outcomes – repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley and overturn Citizens United – as a result of achieving #1 and 2, they would have an enormous impact on precisely that which apparently concerns them.
It would help if they realized that the reason(s) ‘Wall Street’ is the problem is not because it’s actions are illegal but because Pres Clinton made what were illegal activities, legitimate irrespective of how unethical, immoral they are.
#PRESSON
Thank You Bobfr, “KNOWLEDGE IS POWER” and apparently some of the OWS protesters can benefit from your wisdom and insight. You are doing an amazing job of pushing back and providing the facts. I really admire your focused messages. We are so lucky to have you here.
Posted upthread:
I haven’t really commented on the OWS protests, mainly because I’m a bit of a skeptic with most things, especially things that are as non-specific as the OWS protest currently seem to be, I have nothing against them, but I’m not totally 100% comfortable supporting them, so I’ve chosen to just not comment on threads or post about them. That has been hard to do, since it seems that a good number of the blogs I frequent is all OWS all the time. I’ve found that I’ve subconsciously stopped frequenting some of those blogs I used to because even though I’m cynical about the OWS movement and I do think something important is happening, BUT there are other just as important things happening as the OWS, like voter suppression laws, the AJA, unemployment, education disparity…etc that I would also like to discuss, but OWS is kinda pushing those things off the page.
I’m not bothered by the OWS protest, nor am I bothered by all the talk about the OWS protest, but I am bothered by the sense that some of the more sympathetic OWS supporters are going around and making it seem like those of us who are real concerned skeptics about the OWS protest, are somehow “against” the protests, and that couldn’t be farthest from the case. I think things are happening, but I’ve been focusing my attention on those other things, and just keeping abreast of the reports from OWS. Right now, I’m just not feeling them, but doesn’t mean I don’t think they are important.
This is what we need. Efforts on multiple fronts, because that is how we are being attacked by the Koch Machine. If we all push from different standpoints we can move that big ball up the hill. The key is not to de-legitimize those that take a different path.
Let’s make them welcomed to the fold in whatever form they present and appreciate their efforts as we want them to appreciate ours. United we stand
lamh31 – I think you’ve nicely captured what I’ve been trying to formulate in my own mind and with my own words.
And since there are plenty of folks concentrating on the OWS protest, I’ll concentrate on the other important things, while keeping abreast of OWS activities … even if that means tomorrow morning I have to again contact one of my two Senators, who’s that dreaded Republican Kirk.
Joe the Plumber running for Congress? Maybe he can get Hank Williams Jr. to campaign for him, since Hank got laid off and needs a job
Joe can also get McShame and Sista Sarah to endorse him. I am sure they won’t give him the time of day. They used him big time.
LOL he will fit right in with Joe the Deadbeat Dad. Tax problems, working as plumber without adequate license. Swuheett
If I don’t have to work this Saturday I plan to be marching with Rev. Al
Donna, if I were there, I would be right with you.
Does anyone know of any groups that may have buses going from Maine/Mass? There were last time before the cancellation, but I haven’t heard of any new ones. Any leads welcomed
I thought this quote was spot on from a participant in the Indy OWS demonstration: “I’m not anti-capitalist,” said Hank Kratky, 50, Pendleton. “Is it wrong to acquire wealth? Absolutely not. People deserve what they earn through the sweat of their brow or their intelligence. What I object to is the cloistering of wealth and the systematic gaming of the rules to keep wealth in fewer and fewer hands.”
I would say you didn’t hear that in the msm. Or am I wrong?
It was in an Indy Star story on their website. I didn’t link because the comments are hideous, as the rt. gets more and more anxious and more and more hostile toward the movement.
Sorry to say that’s my city and newspaper. Hideous RW garbage every day. Daniels is our gov, who they wanted to run for president but his wife wouldn’t let him. He’s the one who was Bush’s first OMB director and squandered the Clinton surplus. He’s not even 5 feet tall and an egomaniac. Ugh.
Then it is surprising they posted that. Maybe the protests are getting thru; Wall St. Bad! Many will still want to blame PBO but the anger is shifting to wall st and their enablers. Our job is to keep highlighting the steps PBO has taken to rein in wall st and how the rethugs keep carrying their water.
Never miss a good opportunity.
Stream of consciousness here on OWS…..I think these demonstrations are a buildup of angst and anxiety that has been seething and fermenting since the election of 2000….now that may seem farfetched, but many of us were thorougly disgusted at the election being stolen and decided by the Supreme Court. But, we followed Al Gore, and “for the good of the country” went along with it. Then came 9/11, and to be good patriots we had to support GWB. Then came the Iraq War….some protests took place then, but they couldn’t get any traction or news coverage. We were still told to “support the troops” and by exension GWB. Then came the stock market crash, and the results weren’t seen immediately…we elected president Obama and expected him to make everything right. He is one person….this mess is too much for one person and one term. . He discovered AFTER the election, how false the reports were and how much worse off we were. Then came the health care fight….then the horrible tea parties, then the election of last November, and all the time, this anger and frustration has been seething. It is what I think is an inchoate anger….not truly defined, yet. I think, and hope it will be. Now the far right…Glenn Beck, etc. are attacking the OWS people…illustrating exactly what they are protesting against.
At all the points I’ve mentioned, there should have been protests, but the fear kept coming from the Bush admin, and we kept being told to be good patriots and support the president. FINALLY, that pressure has been lifted, and we see what has been seething underneath for at least 10 years. Rev. Al is down among them, he will find out what is truly going on, and I have no doubt that the president has people there too.
I trust Rev. Al and other ministers to find out what is really going on. I’m hoping this energy will be focused on passing the jobs bill and electing solid Democrat senators and reps. These people feel powerless…and they need to be shown that they’re fighting the Koch Brothers and Karl Rove, not the President.
I’m with you on trusting Rev. Al on this. So far, he is in support of OWS. He said he is going to go back and spend a night there, bringing some of his clergy friends. We shall see how it all pans out. If anybody can get to the bottom of something, Rev. can.
And Rev. Al is one of the few I trust at this point. In fact, he’s the only one on MSNBC I now trust – and thank God he has that show! He helps me keep my sanity, daily.
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@OWS, if you can achieve 2 Goals you will have enormous impact: Elect a Congress that repeals Gramm-Leach-Bliley & overturns Citizens United
#YesWECanDOMoreTogether
Our4thEstate Bobfr
IF us 99%ers really want to scare the oligarchs we’d focus on repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley, Overturn Citizens United & 50% Capital Gains Tax
#YesWECanDOMoreTogether
Someone on another site suggested that we all send 99 cents ( in pennies) to our members of Congress and the Leaders of both Houses.
I think I will do that.
lol Good idea, but I think I’ll refrain. Don’t want them using my pennies for nefarious ads. But I will drop some money off at a homeless shelter and let them know it is in solidarity for the 99%
Sorry Linda I will NOT give my 99 cents in pennies to Speaker Orange Rusty, Eric Todler Cantor, Joe U LIE Wilson and Teabaggers. No way no how
Book details American letters to Obama White House
(Reuters) – Every evening President Barack Obama is handed what he calls his “homework packet,” a thin folder of 10 letters from the American people offering him an unvarnished view of the citizens he governs.
Obama asked for the unvetted correspondence on the second day of his tenure and has used them to help shape policy and to enliven his speeches with the stories of real people.
The correspondence, featured in the book “Ten Letters,” shows that America is struggling.
“The one way where Obama still has some intimate interaction with ordinary American people is through these 10 letters,” author Eli Saslow told Reuters in an interview.
“This is his one authentic place of interaction about what is going on in people’s lives,” said Saslow, who has covered the Obama White House for The Washington Post.
His book is published this week by Doubleday.
[snip]
Saslow said Obama told him, “The letters sometimes make him feel so powerless because these problems are so real and urgent and desperate and the act of governing is so slow that he sometimes recognizes there is nothing he can do to help.”
Saslow said Obama admitted that on a few occasions he had written a check or made a phone call to help fix someone’s problem because he felt it was all he could do.
The letters Obama receives six days a week reflect the overall mail. For example, if 20 percent of letters are from military families, he will receive two such letters in his daily packet and if 50 percent of the letters were about being jobless, five of his 10 letters will be about that topic.
Similarly, if two thirds have a negative sentiment and one third are upbeat, that will be reflected.
Most of the letters detail problems and suffering in people’s lives. Joblessness, foreclosures and economic woes make up a huge portion of the correspondence.
Still, the book is not without hope. It opens with a woman who wrote to Obama after she lost her job, her boyfriend’s business went bust and the bank foreclosed on their house. Then, days after she lost her health benefits she found out she was pregnant with her second child.
The book ends with her selling Obama’s response to an autograph dealer for $7,000 and reading his response to her one last time. “Things will get better,” Obama wrote.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/10/us-books-obama-letters-idUSTRE7995YI20111010?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=60468
I love that story.
Thanks so much for this story Meta. This part absolutely melted my heart “Saslow said Obama admitted that on a few occasions he had written a check or made a phone call to help fix someone’s problem because he felt it was all he could do.” What a decent, kind-hearted, wonderful human being we have for a President. Stories like this make me fight even harder for his re-election and make me fight rightwingers and liberals who want to tarnish his progressive and transformative legislative record.
Me, too, ut. Me, too.
This is the man who gave all his noble prize money to various scholarships. Gotta love him
Contrast this to smiley and west who’ve been rich for decades and have done diddly squat with their money, then spend all their time disparaging him.
When I read this, I couldn’t help but shed a few tears….
“Saslow said Obama admitted that on a few occasions he had written a check or made a phone call to help fix someone’s problem because he felt it was all he could do.”
America has no clue what a good man we have…God Bless him
He has a heart the size of Manhattan. Such a dear, compassionate person and I don’t think we’ve seen this sort of thing in the WH in our lifetimes. We live in a very crazy cold world and I will always praise him for this.
Sigh. Obama Cares. He really does.
That’s beautiful
.
Good evening everyone. I have been reading the comments all day and I have to say although I agree with some of them I have to say I disagree that we have to completely be against OWS or the CBC. I do not like some of the things SOME of the people with OWS and in the CBC have said but I for one refuse to completely disregard the CBC. Not everyone in the CBC is against PBO and they have done some good for the AA community(and yes I am AA). Also I agree we should see what direction OWS will take but as of now I think it is working for the Prez. With those dumbass greedy repubs calling them mobs and the one guy saying that they need to work with the Prez I don’t think we should completely discount them. Also I will never be completely against the CBC yeah there are alot of old heads that need to be replaced but I refuse to agree to the dismanteling of an organization that has done a lot for AAs and who I know will continue to.
No one said that they are completely against the OWS or the CBC. They just disagree on some of the things that they do.
agree, I read most every comment and I’ve rarely seen absolutes applied here by folks.. lotsa wait and see and as to the CBC, we clearly called out the actual culprits- primarily Maxine Waters.
That’s the point I’ve been attempting to make, not to completely discredit OWS just because a few of them bash the President and want a third party. This blog likes to talk about how it’s bad to let a few bad apples speak for everyone, yet here people are taking the words of a few crackpots in the movement and taking them at face value.
And as you pointed out, they’ve got the right wing calling them mobs and whatnot, which is useful to President Obama because the right wing gets weakened and we need the right wing to be weakened in order to win. The right wing Teabags won last year because we didn’t fight back enough against them and we virtually allowed the loud crackpots on the left to take a crap on the accomplishments of President Obama and the Democrats.
While I’ll be honest to admit that there are crackpots in the group that seem to be against Obama and calling for third parties, as I pointed out, I would take them with a grain of salt… for all we know, they may be right wing plants posing as third party voters to shut the movement down, there’s at least one account of an internet blogger essentially pulling a Brietbart/O Keefe style stunt and posing as a disgruntled Obama supporter at OWS that I read from Think Progress.
I have no problems with anyone being skeptical of this movement, but be skeptical with the truth and facts. That is all.
We are skeptical of OWS with truth and facts. You just refuse to even acknowledge the majority of our concerns and the many facts we’ve thrown your way and keep chastising us for not jumping in blindly into the menagerie of some crackpots and a few meaning people (hopefully). We’re all thought to use critical thinking skills but you on the other hand are leveling disappointment at us because we won’t participate in you and others forced groupthink mentality. Until they get a concrete message you should not castigate ANYONE of us for looking at them with a leery and wary eye.
* I have no words for this tom foolery* Cain is statistically tied with Romney- *oh my sides are hurting from this laughter*
National
2012 President: Republican Primary
20% Romney
18% Cain
15% Perry
8% Paul
7% Gingrich
5% Bachmann
3% Santorum
2% Huntsman
Oh, oh Huntsman gaining steam…..NOT!
Uncle Ruckus Cain — he makes me want to watch the debate tomorrow night
And Romney is tied with “undecided”. That’s how thrilled the Repubs are about their candidates.
Don’t know if anyone posted this, but because of “ObamaCares” we added 44,000 new jobs in healthcare industry last month! Tell me why that’s bad?
http://www.politicususa.com/en/obamacare-heathcare-booming Also, TPV has a great piece up by Deaniac that explains a few things about why this administration isn’t perp walking those crooks and liars on Wall St…..it’s a MUST READ:)
Thanks df! Obama does care
Yes, he DOES!!:)
Here’s the piece from TPV..http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2011/10/why-wont-he-perpwalk-them.html
Was going to post this. It’s excellent. Shoots down all the PL outrage over the bank fiasco. Pres Obama had nothing to do with any of it. Seeing how many Dems supported the deregulation, I think also explains some of the wishy washy support the President gets from his own party. They are GUILTY! and he is not. so lets ptry and project our guilt off on Pres Obama. Sherrod Brown, Mr. Holier Than Though Progressive, voted to repeal regulation. How in the hell can they criticize Pres Obama on anything? Cowards and liars. And I mean the Dems.
We need to tweet this and remind them of their responsibility for this mess.
Thanks for posting this ds. When Jake “The Snarl” Tapper asked President Obama about Wall Street prosecutions, I thought to myself how many American realize that it was just a free for all during the Bush administration. No regulations, no accountability. I loved the way he responded to the question. He made such a good point about there being no regulations and that Wall Street’s actions were unethical and immoral. That’s why we need Dodd-Frank and the CFPB. And that is why I keep saying the OWL crowd should be demanding the implementation of Dodd-Frank and the CFPB. The focus should be on the congress. This post from TPV is just music to my ears. It needs to be circulated far and wide.
Ladyhawke…you bet this needs to be spread far and wide:) For all the Tweeters out there:)
Whatever OWS is about or is going to be about, at this point in time I’m laser focused on presidential politics and my local election. I’m working to re-elect President Obama and am not interested in moving off that subject for the next year. I do believe that people are suffering due to Wall St excess, but I don’t feel the impulse to talk about promoting anarchy to end capitalism or creating a third party. Ultimately, I fail to see how that is particularly useful or relevant right now. President Obama has been a remarkable president and he has my full and complete support. I hope whatever the OWS movement is accomplishing is helpful toward our OFA goals but I’m not counting on it because I haven’t seen any such demonstration or heard any such declaration. I’m also very turned off by what I’ve seen of their process. But I wish them the best if they hope to change what’s wrong with our financial systems. Whatever comes of that will have to make its way through Congress, which as we have all witnessed, isn’t a piece of cake.
Meta, what you said.
Brilliantly said Meta. Right now they’re just another media distraction. I’m focused and concerned with making sure the senate passes AJA, that more and more people are aware of the benefits of President Obama’s AJA, that AJA could create up to 1.9 million jobs. I’m more focused with working with working with College Democrats at my school to spread the message of how AJA is beneficial to Texas. I’m more interested in championing local Democratic candidates and making sure that Texas turns blue brick by painstaking brick. I’m more interested in doing something concretely proactive rather than chanting all day about anarchy and creating a third party. 2012 is too crucial for me and we so badly need President Obama and the Dems to win or else these OWS folks will really have something to whine about when republicans destroy our whole infrastructure again.
I’m in total agreement. I can understand their frustration, but it would be unwise to put my full weight behind it, without knowing where it’s going. I have nothing against those who support them, or are at least more open than I – I have people in my family that are feeling the OWS movement big time. I’m just not there at this point. We shall see. I’m just trying to have patience, question them, and focus on getting our president re-elected and keep the Senate Democratically controlled, and flip the House.
Tweety and other pundits and longtime insders have something wrong with them! Now President Obama has “People Problem” because get this: he does not “do the back slapping of politicians when thet make a difficult vote, …., spends very little time on the ropeline shaking hands, … sticks with a few tight-knight longterm friends…., likes to retire to his residence reading policy papers and spending time with his family rather than hang out with donor and elected members … unlike Bill Clinton”
what a load of crap!!! last week he was called “debonaire (spelling?), exotic and aloof” and now he has a “people problem”.
It does not occur to them that President Obama avoids people who do not understand that they are elected to serve people rather than their donors and lobbyist
I tweeted Tweety (ha!) some photos of people loving on Pres Obama when he was out pushing the jobs bill. Photos with people hugging him, photos with kids. They are a bunch of liars. Do they think we haven’t seen the coverage of the President shaking hands and greeting people? Do they think we haven’t seen how much time he and Michelle spent greeting people in Moneygall and how much they were loved there?
And they forget how PBO when he first took office had Wednesday get together for Congress and he had lunch with the media too. They didn’t appreciate any of it. Lied on him then and said awful things. Rs obstructed anyway.
They do not deserve to be in his presence if you ask me and certainly not part of his inner circle. And the man works harder than any of them ever will. What makes them think he wants to spend his free time with a bunch of liars and greedy pundits instead of his precious family?
These people with their lies are just too much. I am so sick of the lies.
Hello everyone, I’ve been missing In action for the past few days, but I sure did miss you Guys. My Son Is visiting me here In West Palm Beach, he’s from from New Hampshire, and really , we’ve just been enjoying each other’s company, spending lots of quality time together, It’s all good
I just want to give a shout out to everyone, to let you know that I’m still among the living, Thank God 
so take care everyone and have a good one. My Son will be leaving on Saturday 
I’m trying to enjoy every day, and each moment while he’s here.
luci1119 – I’ve got one of those sons that I love spending time with, so I appreciate the happy place where you are! Enjoy.
Enjoy your time with your son luci – I know how it is!
Enjoy,luci!!! I just spent the weekend with my sister and my nephew that I haven’t seen in 10 years:) Soak in this time!!!
I did that with a daughter a couple weeks ago. They may grow up but they’ll always be our kids. I actually like mine as just nice people to be around. It sounds like it’s the same for you. Enjoy your visit.
Enjoy that young man. Our children are our most precious gifts.
I take it as a compliment. Not into cronyism and kissing the asses of DC elites? I’ll take it. Unlike Bill Clinton? I’ll take TWO please.
Hear hear. Folks consider me a loner too but I get things done despite.
The head of the American Federation of Teachers, Randi Weingarten, was on with Rev. Al tonight (I’m watching my recording), and did a masterful job in support of President Obama and the “Occupy” movement. The first thing she said was that passing the AJA is a no-brainer.
Listen to our teachers!
She was excellent. They really fed off each other. They were on fire.
Yes, I think they have a good and long-standing association. Believe she’ll be in D.C. with him this weekend, too. She certainly is passionate – something sorely needed, along with all of us who are in PBO’s corner!
Look at that smile. He looks relaxed and happy. I don’t know how he does that with all the craziness going on.
For all the pundits and their self serving blabber…
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_10/the_punditocracy_vs_the_mainst032716.php
Thanks, desertflower. Great read. The Pundits are way off most if not all the time.
You’re welcome,Tien! I don’t pay any attention to what all the pundits and talking heads have to say…they always think that what they say is somehow relevant, and it hardly ever is. They all hold themselves and their opinions in MUCH higher regard than I do….thank goodness that PBO keeps the listening of these bozos to a bare minimum.They are giants only in their OWN MINDS.To me, they’re just about useless.
uugghh, the usual third rate hacks of brooks, halprick and mark fucking oenn (gimme a break).
Rachel Maddow did a great segment tonight on the beltway media giving the GOP a pass. It’s not a disconnect, the media is just looking the other way and giving them cover. I’ll try to post it when it is available.
Marines respond to reporter asking, “If Sean Hannity were standing here what would you say to him.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aaTGsGdp4c&feature=player_embedded
That was great!
Tweeting this!
This is my prediction for OWS: As the general elections nears and the Repub candidate is revealed, a lot of those involved in OWS will be coming home or turning to the Democratic party. As Pres. Obama goes up against his Republican opponent, the answer will be clear about who is on which side. Pres. Obama and his team will be touting their accomplishments day in and day out and the people will hear. He will be going all over the country and the people will know. So don’t worry about a third party or the professional left. Neither one can touch the dedication and discipline of OFA. The Tea Party outflanked the left but they can’t touch the true grassroots organizational skills of OFA. How could anyone form a third party from OWS if they don’t want to be lead or vote or get a universal message or list of demands? Pffffft……fuggedaboutit.
I also want to push back on those who don’t understand why some people are skeptical. It is perfectly OK to have doubts about any movements that just pops up out of nowhere. Or seemed to have popped up out of nowhere. It is perfectly OK to ask this group what do they stand for and where do you want this to go? Ron Paul wants to get corporations out of politics too, but he would also deregulate corporations, leave you with no protections and allow them to feast on your bones. We may all believe DC is corrupt but we don’t all believe that Democrats and Republicans are the same or that Pres. Obama is the problem. This is why so many here are hesitant. Its a question of what do we do once we get there. You don’t think these are important concerns to have? I mean, come on. Have any of you ever joined a group, club, or organization thinking that they shared your beliefs and then found out later, sometimes too late, that yeah, not so much? People have been burned before and don’t want to experience that feeling of betrayal or shame again.
I want to support OWS and I hope they start to listen and learn from REAL activists who have gotten their hands dirty like Rep. John Lewis (by the way I read that they regret their decision and want to invite him back), but I already belong to a group whose goals and endgame are clear and they have a leader who I trust and know – The Democratic party and Pres. Obama.
“…I already belong to a group whose goals and endgame are clear and they have a leader who I trust and know – The Democratic party and Pres. Obama.”
Hello! Now THAT’S what I’m talking about!
Let’s FOCUS now, brothers and sisters, and Pass This Bill and make Richard Cordray a household name! Y’all in?
I want to post the interview with John Lewis here so that anyone who has not heard it can decide for themselves. I can see both sides of this but think that if the Democrats don’t jump in then it will leave the field wide open for the libertarians and they are the worst kind of selfish in my opinion. I’m pointing out on twitter that it was Cantor who called them a mob.
http://podcasts.cnn.net/cnn/services/podcasting/audio/interviews/cnninterviewsa1009.mp3
they ought to tread lightly in my opinion.
Has anyone seen the Occupy The Hood group. they have an article in AlJazeera website today (see the link below). Looks like they have grown fairly quickly and having a rally tomorrow in Detroit because of major cuts in Welfare/aid to Detroit residents. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/10/2011109191019708786.html
I just saw tha Buddy Romer character on L. O’Donnell talking about candidates and money and he had the nerve to quote that bogus article saying that PBO’s small donors were drying up and criticizing the Obama campaign for announcing that they will raise one billion. The fact that he said he doesn’t take certain money is precisely why he is going no further than tv appearances.
Heh. BR doesn’t even poll high enough to get into the debates, does he?
No Kat. That’s why he will be limited to tv appearances.
Romer the former Democrat turned Libertarian wants to attend the OWS and says that he’s supportive of the movement. Of course he is. Now that he’s already benefited from all the banks he owned, plus the billions he stashed away from his investment firms. The crap about Obama’s small donors is a lie perpetuated by media and others to set up an argument that somehow he’s funded by corporations aka Wall Street. Hence this sudden yet PHONY interest in “taking money out of elections.”
I notice this sudden meme about taking money out of elections. Ratigan is also pushing this and Rhandi Rhodes has jumped on his bandwagon.
Just spotted on Twitter that there was a “Register to Vote” booth at OccupySanDiego !!!
Yee-haw!
That’s good news Ms. O’Boomer. Hopefully other sites will follow. I saw Russell Simmon on KO tonight. Kayne West has also jumped on the OWS bamdwagon. Since Rev. Al is spending the night there and embracing the movement, hopefully he can express the importance of voting in order to make change. Simmons said that hopefully someone from the Democratic party would start writing legislation addressing some of their needs just by listening to the movement.
Kanye West is Cornel West’s cousin. I don’t think he’s a friend of PBO. Recall when PBO said (off mike) that West was a “jackass?”
Isn’t that an “Ah ha” moment.
Wow, Hopefruit, I had no idea that Kayne was Cornel West’s brother. I may be mistaking him for P. Diddy who I think is now known by another name.
I think the photo they showed was P. Diddy. BTW, what name is he known by these days? 
Yes Kanye and Cornel are cousins. I wasn’t aware that P diddy had another name.
Huh? I am a Kanye fan and I have never heard of him being related to Cornel. Are you sure?
I thought I had seen it on Wikipedia or possibly on a blog (which may not have been accurate in the first place). But now I don’t see any evidence outside of speculation that they are biologically related. It’s also possible that because Cornel calls other black men “brother” that someone may have confused the term to mean biologically related!
Or perhaps they will #passthebill which may at least be a start to addressing their needs.
If anyone is interested, Al Giordano has a post up on ows.
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/4664/trait-du-savoir-vivre-occupy-wall-street-generations
The money quote
The bolded part reaffirms what hopefruit said about the genesis of this movement. Now that Al has confirmed, I will watch this movement with even more apprehension.
I read that a couple days ago. Funny but it seems like such a long time hence. Time is just flying by.
Been gone all day at the eye Dr, and get home to this bit of heavy drama. Good, bad, or indifferent, we’re all have for the same thing. Our love and support for this President. i ,for one, will never question ones motives as long as we’re moving in the same direction.
Hope you’re eyes recovered from their drops. Welcome back.
Thank you “mon water”;-) Still got a little double vision but it looks like i need to get my eyes str8 to keep up with what’s goin on today, huh?
I am ok with OW protesting..what I don’t agree with is what Van Jones said, “The White House” fell asleep during the 2010 primary. I asked Van Jones, where was he…when PBO was traveling the country asking folks not to give them “The Keys” back and warned them, that if they sat this one out..there will be major consequences and they will undo progress done in his 2.0 years. When Repubs were campaigning they promised Jobs and Jobs, instead the idiots that voted for them, what they got is: Union Busting, Stripping Social Services, We are now fighting Woman’s Rights, Voters Right…Just as PBO warned us.
I am sure the OW demonstrators are mad as hell and mean well…but why not Occupy Congress….were legislation/Laws are passed…While OW hold Wall Street hostage, this rich folks couldn’t give a damn how many people or how many days or nights march out there…..But let it be known that the Republicans are the enemy here..Congress lead by Teaparty Repubs are the one holding the 99% Percent hostage, by not passing the job bill. I guess my question is, Is Wall Street going to give you a Job? Health Care? Fix the street and bridges you’re marching on?
Peace
Kasai, I have no problems with OW protesting Wall Street and corporations if that’s really what they’re doing. However, it appears that they are more about airing their grievances with the President and his WH cabinet than anything else – even more than Wall Street per se.
I know Hope, I feel the same way..when they say “They Don’t have Party Affiliation” Yet they quick to bash PBO…it’s troublesome, and it’s not just a few…most of them repeat the same message..
If they knew the difference between a Democrat and Republican, they wouldn’t dump them in the same category, it makes it easier for them to attack PBO
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@VanJones68 Checked the web site. Only mention of Pres Obama & Dems was a ‘hold them accountable’ link. Interesting way to create solidarity
Our4thEstate Bobfr
@VanJones68 IF you want to restrain the oligarchs Re-elect Obama & Turn Congress a Progressive shade of Blue. Are those your goals?
We’ll see how he responds. Last thing America and the world needs is a 2012 version of the 2000 Nader.
#PRESSON
You know I’ve been waiting for Van Jones to say SOMETHING closely resembling support for the President. If he’s said it, I haven’t heard it.
I like when we talk like this and challenge each other (with respect of course). No one can rightly call any of us mindless Obots. We are not afraid to speak our minds here, that’s for sure.
I soooooooo agree! I wouldn’t want to hash an issue out with any other group than the TOD Family. This is the best place on the internet, if I may humbly say so myself.
Obama/Biden 2012
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
I just have to say, I love the vigorous debate being had on this thread.
Like I said up thread, until more is none I will hold my support, but until then I will be working phone banks here in Ohio, up till 11/08 to get the vote out.
The President put forth a Job Bill…So all that the OW could get a job, a better education, health care, infrastructure, financial reform..and so on.
Why are we having this debate?? Have they Not been hearing or watching PBO traveling around the country fighting for the middle class (99%), So if you want progress and immediate help, I suggest you call congress and Pass the Bill….we can then fight Wall Street…first thing first.
Oh, they’ve heard. Which is why they are not listening now. They want to make their own mark, frame the debate, be heard. Shame they were so silent 2000-2008. Still have my doubts, and wonder how the hell we got this major shift during the mid-terms. Where the hell was everybody then? Ah the heck with this crap. Signing off for tonite, except to say, using that old adage……..shit or get off the pot. That’s for the OWS. Nite all
The reality bite for the ‘disenchanted’ libruls. Get over it.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/10/10/126634/for-disenchanted-liberals-obama.html
I don’t care so much for this article because it implies that President Obama’s liberal base is disenchanted with him, which is not true. Poll after poll has shown that President Obama is still supported by well over 75% of liberal democrats. The “disenchanted” folks are those who didn’t really support him even in 2008. How can the article claim that African Americans are disillusioned based on Cornel West’s rantings? Was West ever gung ho about President Obama? Please.
It is healthy -to a degree. I miss the more serene /escapist times I used to spend here. Used to go to BWD for healthy debate then here to chill out. Alas. Things evolve. This is still my favorite site on the web.
Well enough angst for me for one day. I think I’ll go visit WiW for more positive outlook and to plan my action for tomorrow, ie faxing and emailing and calling. Will check back later and perhaps ChipsChica would’ve posted a soothing ‘nite nite/pretty pic’ post by then.
Night all. And thanks Chips for being here.
Lunar don’t feel discouraged. Sometimes I miss the lighthearted moments too. But this is transient and it too shall pass. we are in an election year and the stakes are high, so there are going to be some not-so-serene moments. But as our President always says, we don’t quit when things seem tough. He doesn’t quit and neither should we. I look forward to seeing his speech tomorrow in Pittsburgh. I’m sure it will be an uplifting and inspiring message. Have a wonderful restful night and hope to see you hear tomorrow!
Love this!!! Our Beloved President has a toughness that cannot be denied. He is truly amazing and he does have a peace. OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!
Thanks you’l. I appreciate the uplifting words of encouragement. And no I’m not discouraged about 2012. I really think if we just keep at it and keep people informed, given the choices and the record PBO has to run on -we will win.
I just think that 2nd to apathy, division will do us in quicker that voter disenfranchisement. It is good to keep informed in what some ‘so called’ supporters are up to or where they are coming from. But we do have to make sure not to turn people away because they are coming from a different place. It is imperative that we recognize if we ask 100 people what motivates them you get 100 different answers. Each valid.
Anyway not making sense. Am running late and typing fast. Just know that hope never fades for me.
Have a great day all. Luvs
Maybe we just need to tone it down. I will.
#OccupyAVothingBooth
@buddyroemer For anyone ticked off at Buddy Roemer about the billion dollar quote that the media made up and ran with, here’s his twitter handle. I already did it and I’m tweeted out for the night.
Night Obots!