12
Oct
11

‘projecting wishes and dreams onto the ows movement’

Joan Ruaiz (Guest blogger at Extreme Liberal): … Simply put, the Occupy Wall Street Movement is Americans’ individual calls of shame on corporate greed, but done collectively. It represents the frustrations of millions of Americans who did everything right, but have been forced to realize that their hard work no longer brings with it the promised spoils of the American Dream….

Interestingly, there are various diverging interest groups who seek to mold this burgeoning  movement into their own image.

There are the Ron Paul supporters who mistakenly believe that they share a common link with the OWS, simply because it is a movement that isn’t positive towards the accepted status quo. They ignore that many in the movement are demanding more financial regulations, not less, that the unemployed within the movement want stronger social programs to assist those hit hardest, not weaker ones…

…. the Tea Party supporters selfishly want to believe that this OWS movement is against the government, when it really isn’t. OWS protestors actually are demanding more governmental intervention in reigning in corporate greed, not a system of laissez-faire “free” markets where only the strong survive….

… the folks of no party, always dissatisfied with everything, going way back, don’t see that many of the protestors are seeking workable solutions that can be implemented effectively and immediately. They are already tired to death of waiting.

Full post here and at Democrats For Progress

Thanks Sequana


45 Responses to “‘projecting wishes and dreams onto the ows movement’”


  1. 1 PoliticalJunkessa
    October 12, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Nice piece. Right now, I like the fact that it is still not specific because before we get to specifics, we need raising of consciousness. America has been asleep too long. The idea of just sitting down and occupying a space has worked so well before. Like Melissa Hart Perry said, parking the physical body is all many Americans have left. “We are the 99%” is clear enough — I think it’s actually genius.

    • 2 Jax6655
      October 12, 2011 at 12:36 pm

      Article is great, on time, and spells out exactly what’s going on. Consciousness-raising. Cudos to MHP who gets it, because “We are the 99%.” Genius, indeed.

      • 3 Jax6655
        October 12, 2011 at 12:41 pm

        From the article:

        >>As I see it, the protestors HAVE MADE THEMSELVES CLEARER THAN MOST of these interests would want to accept. The 99%, themselves, assert:

        “We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we’re working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent.”

        That statement tells us who these protestors are; they are ALL OF US WHO SADLY REALIZE THAT THE AMERICAN DREAM IS DYING AN UNDESERVED DEATH AT THE HANDS OF THE 1%, who could not care less.<<

        [emphasis mine]

    • 4 Vicky
      October 12, 2011 at 3:15 pm

      I like the lack of specifics as well.

  2. 5 Me4obama
    October 12, 2011 at 11:15 am

    I saw Kanye West was Russel Simmons where at OWS, nice read.

  3. 6 globalcitizenlinda
    October 12, 2011 at 11:18 am

    demanding for socio-economic equity and sustainable development are issues I admire. my only complaint with OWS is when some put foward loud mouths perennial President Obama-basher who fail to see that President Obama is working hard on these same issues. PBO is not the Problem, he is a crucial part of the solution

    • 7 Bill
      October 12, 2011 at 11:30 am

      This topic was discussed here yesterday, but not every voice in a large movement can be expected to be on the same page. One unique aspect of OWS is that there is not a set manifesto.

      • 8 utaustinliberal
        October 12, 2011 at 11:49 am

        Not having a set manifesto leads to crackpots representing the so called movement. That doesn’t make them unique, it’s makes them naive.

      • 9 edp4bho
        October 12, 2011 at 12:23 pm

        Seems to me the movements across Africa and the so-called Middle East were “on the same page”. I guess this is all I have left to say about this subject.

        • 10 Bill
          October 12, 2011 at 12:32 pm

          Has OWS declared that they are part of “the movements across Africa and the so-called Middle East”? Their overthrowing dictators is not the same as OWS. If so, I have not seen that in their manifesto.

          • 11 edp4bho
            October 12, 2011 at 12:44 pm

            Bill, be an apologist for OWS. Who cares really? Some of us just have different views, and no one here, as I can tell, has barred you from expressing them. You should allow others to give their point of view as well. As for my comment of foreign movements, I was pointing out the purpose for homogeneity in a movement, thus a viable outcome. It actually works to a greater advantage when one can partner with some part of government to affect change, or should that government be as oppressive as some foreign ones are, then overthrow was necessary. So if OWS wants an overthrow, then you can’t accomplish this without a clear and concise purpose…..not just a potpourri of issues, with everybody doing their own thing. That’s why I refer to them as hippies. And in fact, if you were to read what has been posted here in the past few days, some OWS actually do want overthrow and a third party. So, since no one here is looking for a third party, then I and others have wondered what exactly what the main goals are. Your turn, I guess :-(

    • 12 utaustinliberal
      October 12, 2011 at 11:37 am

      Exactly Linda. Until they get their act together and come up with a concrete message and a concrete philosophy; I for one am not 100% sold on their cause and I will still be watching them with leery eyes. We have more important issues to deal with. We have to make sure President Obama’s American Jobs Act passes as a whole or piece by piece. No matter whatever form; we have to get it passed and we have to fight a herculean battle to get PBO re-elected. I have no time for protesters who bash the one person on their side, the one person who is fighting like a dog to make sure everyone receives equal benefits, gets a job, gets paid well and is treated honestly and fairly. We have more important and crucial issues that demand our attention.

  4. October 12, 2011 at 11:22 am

    The reason people can ‘project wishes and dreams’ is because they have NO CLEAR VOICE OR GOALS. OWS really needs to get it together. Stop the nonsense and focus on the real issues.

    • 14 utaustinliberal
      October 12, 2011 at 11:30 am

      Completely agree aristac.

    • 15 Bill
      October 12, 2011 at 11:34 am

      Why should they have a “CLEAR VOICE OR GOALS” if they do not wish to do so? There is still room for movements that wish to “focus on the real issues”.

      • October 12, 2011 at 11:39 am

        then they need to stop complaining about people using them to ‘project wishes and dreams’

        No set goals and no clear voice equals chaos and confusion.

      • 17 utaustinliberal
        October 12, 2011 at 11:47 am

        If they do not have a “CLEAR VOICE OR GOALS” then they’re nothing but a bunch of loudmouths and crackpots yelling in the street. Every movement has a clear goal. EVERY MOVEMENT. The Civil Rights Movement had a CLEAR goal which they not only accomplished by marching in the streets but petitioning congress, the White House and every legislative local, state, and federal body. The womens movement had a clear goal. They used the above stated avenues to get women the right to vote and fight for equality during the 60s. The LGBT community had a clear goal. They not only protested, but they used the above stated avenues to secure rights for themselves. You see a pattern here Bill? One cannot just yell in the streets incessantly and be expected to be taken seriously. One has to get their act together! Heck organizations such as PETA, the Sierra Club, the NRA (as much as I hate guns) have clear goals. They may protest all day in the streets but they also petition their government, they petition congress and fight to have hearings on Capitol Hill so that they may change the heart and mind of just one congressperson and maybe get their bill introduced in congress. You see another pattern here Bill? In order to be successful, a so called movement cannot just yell in the streets; they become proactive and with luck they become successful. We all don’t have time to be distracted by every crackpot group that rears its head and wants to protest every issue under the sun. We have to pass the AJA; in one piece or in small pieces, we have to make sure Democrats retain and gain a majority in both chambers and we have to make sure President Obama wins re-election. All these tasks require herculean efforts and I am not willing to waste my precious time on a faction that can’t get its act together and come up with a concrete message. Life’s too damn short.

        • 18 Bill
          October 12, 2011 at 11:51 am

          In all due respect, utaustinliberal, why are you commenting so often on OWS if you do not wish to waste your time on them?

          • October 12, 2011 at 12:00 pm

            why can’t she comment? You put forward a statement and expect others to just say nothing. That is debate. OWS can learn a few things from UTAL.

            • 20 Bill
              October 12, 2011 at 12:06 pm

              I never said she could not comment. She said she did not wish to waste her time on OWS but is spending her time commenting on OWS. Just curious why.

          • 21 utaustinliberal
            October 12, 2011 at 12:06 pm

            Because you and others treat us skeptics as though we’re traitors for not jumping on the OWS bandwagon. It is one thing to criticize someone if you have the facts to back it up; but you and the others like Jaxx6655 have presented no FACTS about the positive values of OWS. No FACTS that show they haven’t been on a bash President Obama fest, no FACTS about what their message is. No FACTS which refute that Ad Busters who began the OWS so called movement sees itself as an extension of the teaparty. I will keep on commenting to defend my right not to throw my support behind a faction that is scattered at best and full of crackpots at worst. Present me with facts that show otherwise. Don’t just spout criticisms at we who are skeptics. Get some facts. That’s what I deal in.

            • 22 Bill
              October 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm

              You have every right to your opinion of OWS, but they are under no obligation to conform to your demands on how they should operate. You are spending a lot of time on something you say you do not wish to waste your time.

              • October 12, 2011 at 12:26 pm

                you’re right they don’t and they haven’t. The same goes for UTAL, she is under no obligation to them, to keep her mouth uh fingers shut on a blog. In real life she is prob doing what she can to get things done. My apologies to UTAL for speaking for her.

                OWS is just a confusing mess right now, and i repeat they need to get their act together. Any ‘protest’ where someone yells ‘don’t vote’ and when it doesn’t allow a proving veteran of civil protest to speak, in an atmosphere that we have today of such vileness and racism,regressiveness really needs to sit back and think of what they are trying to portray.

                Protest for protest sake never works, NEVER.

              • 24 utaustinliberal
                October 12, 2011 at 12:44 pm

                Exactly Bill. I have MY RIGHT not to throw 100% support behind them and you have your right to jump on the bandwagon as much as you like but don’t you dare chastise me or tell me I can’t comment on an issue. You have yet to provide any FACTS about the movement yet you want to jump down my throat for not supporting them. If you can’t deal in FACTS then tough luck but don’t come here and dismissively criticize people who don’t want to get behind people who are protesting for protesting sake and can’t get a concrete message together. I prefer to use critical thinking skills and not follow a group think mentality that says I must support all protests that sprout up. You want to support them? Fine. But don’t ever tell me what I can or cannot do.

                • 25 Bill
                  October 12, 2011 at 1:00 pm

                  No one has said you should support them. I could care less if you support them or not. Your antagonism and name calling seem very bitter toward fellow Americans because you do not approve of the manner they organize As far as facts are concerned , they say they do not have specific goals, you believe they should, so what facts should I provide? I do not support them nor do I oppose them. Comment all you wish though you say you do not wish to waste your time on them.

                  • 26 utaustinliberal
                    October 12, 2011 at 1:07 pm

                    Sureeeeee you don’t support them :roll: You only see it fit to beat the rest of us on the head over not supporting them. Whatever Bill. Keep jumping on that bandwagon. Just stop droning on and on and harshly chastising us for our skepticism. You have no FACTS. None at all. What does that tell you? Everyone who’s disagreed with them in the TOD family have provided evidence of why they don’t 100% support OWS. You have not. I repeat YOU HAVE NO FACTS. That means you have nothing to back your comments up; so don’t expect us all to bow and scrape at your feet because you want to be an apologist for OWS. Go support them. Go to their website and leave your heartfelt thanks to them. No one is stopping you. Just leave the rest of us out of it.

        • 27 prettyfoot58
          October 12, 2011 at 12:44 pm

          Before we go ballistic on each other…keep in mind that we can respectfully disagree….

          so let me wade into the waters….

          it is unfair to label the protests as loudmouth crackpots…..i do not see this as a movement but more of a protest…a strong protest….where it will go ( if anywhere) remains to be seen…

          i heard someone say that we have a right to protest for right….

        • 28 Vicky
          October 12, 2011 at 3:19 pm

          VickyHey! I’m one of those loudmouths and crackpots? LOL. My family will laugh at that description of me!

      • 29 edp4bho
        October 12, 2011 at 12:32 pm

        I guess I will say something else. I heard a gentleman this morning on radio compare these protests to that of a 12 year old. The kid is forgiven for acting compulsively and emotionally, without a clear goal for its outrage, but an adult should have concrete plans to execute. For instance, spelling out the direction to take, working together for the success of a movement, and a realistic and viable outcome which works in the best interest of everyone. This is a so-called democracy, but it should not preclude reason. To agitate for the sake of agitation is akin to throwing a tantrum, but agitation with a set attainable goal is guaranteed success of some degree. I thank God my ancestors during the Civil Rights movement were of one voice, that being freedom to participate fully in this so-called democracy.

        • 30 Bill
          October 12, 2011 at 12:45 pm

          I simply do not understand why some are apoplectic over the manner that a group is organized. This is America and people have the right to protest in any legal manner they wish. Anger at a group for not following one’s guidelines for legal protest will have no effect on them especially when one resorts to calling them such names as “crackpots”. It seems it would be more productive to organize one’s own protest under one’s desired guidelines.

          • 31 edp4bho
            October 12, 2011 at 12:53 pm

            Not to be facetious, but Bill, why are you here and not out there with the OWS? This is an honest question. If you are really unable, then I’m sure they appreciate your support, but for God’s sake, please stop trying to beat us upside our heads with this droning on and on about OWS. They, I think, have a site so wouldn’t your support be better appreciated there? Some here do welcome this, but others do not, and those of us who do not have given our reasons. You’re becoming a bother with this. Now, can we talk about how to proceed with getting jobs to people who really need them, and getting behind the man who is fighting a much better fight than any OW in attaining this “goal”?

            • 32 utaustinliberal
              October 12, 2011 at 12:56 pm

              Absolutely edp4bho.

            • 33 Bill
              October 12, 2011 at 1:20 pm

              You and utaustinliberal seem to be the ones “droning on and on about OWS” everytime they are mentioned. As I said I don’t support them or oppose them. I simply love seeing people involved and do not question their methods as long as they are legal.

              To answer your rude question, I am here because I think President Obama is the only hope this country has. I could care less why you are here and could care less if you think I am a bother.

              • 34 edp4bho
                October 12, 2011 at 1:34 pm

                To address you once again, I did not ask why you are here in supporting the President, I am asking why aren’t you out there with them? Also, we drone on, as you so aptly turned it back on us, to address your concerns as to why some here are not supporting OWS 100%. No one here ever said people do not have a right to protest….that is assinine. I was hoping to re-visit this thread to add that we should be going up against the rethug state administrations which are trying to deny simple voting rights to qualified citizens, and how I would love to see this potential miscarriage of justice be front and center at this time. My/our forefathers and mothers fought and died for this right, so excuse me if I have what I feel a more urgent concern.This is called being focused. And Bill, you needn’t take things to heart. We are just having a discussion and a healthy debate. I am and always have been a proponent for protest….hell yeah….but direction is of prime importance. Else, how would one know when a goal is actually achieved?

                • 35 Bill
                  October 12, 2011 at 2:08 pm

                  I am not certain why I am explaining to you why I am not “out there with them”, but though I once lived in New York and worked on Wall Street I am too old to sleep in a park and about a thousand miles from New York. Also, I don’t support them or oppose them, I simply respect them.

                  • 36 edp4bho
                    October 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm

                    I respect that. I also did not automatically assume you could be out there, as I stated above. And I do appreciate you explaining it to me. I have the same goal as you do on this board, and that is to support and re-elect President Obama. Thanks, Bill :-D

  5. 37 tally
    October 12, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I’m not sure how many are aware, but Steve Jobs’ salary was $1 per year. That’s ONE DOLLAR per year.

    Miss you Steve.

    48 hours and counting until my new iPhone 4Steve is delivered!!! YAY!

  6. 38 lamh31
    October 12, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    it is not people like myself or others who are the ones that supporters of OWS should be worried about. Debating with us here about whether or not one should support or not support the OWS movements is all well and good, but supporters times would be better served talking to people like the radio DJ I heard on my local station this morning. This DJ is NOT a talk radio host, he’s just a nationally syndicated pop radio DJ who is active in politics and from what I understand he leans Democratic. The segment I heard was about Samuel L Jackson saying that he was glad the the protesters were out there because he himself was “out there protesting” during the 60s and 70s. Well this DJ, then said about Samuel L Jackson, “well isn’t wasn’t he a big Obama supporter, is he still a Obama supporter then, cause the OWS people are obviously anti-obama or they believe Obama hasn’t done enough or is doing poorly so is Samuel Jackson also disapointed in Obama…”

    None of his sidekicks disputed him or even tried to contradict him. Like I said, this guy is NOT some raging faux-gresive, he’s just a loyal Democratic voter, and he like other are under the impression that OWS is in fact anti-Obama. This is what comes of not having a set goal or at the very least some set guidelines. No one is speaking up and no one is really speaking coherently in unison, so tht the information out there is just taken as fact. If there was a more definitive lead message, then so much of OWS message wouldn’t be co-opted and outright lied about. This DJ is the type of person that OWS supporters should be trying to talk to.

    Enough with the infighting.

    Juts my 2 cents.

    • 39 edp4bho
      October 12, 2011 at 2:40 pm

      Lamh, this is something I have made my number one endeavor to correct the misinformation out there. I regularly contact my local talk radio hosts to inform them of what I’ve found relevant and truthful as they speak to and influence a large segment of society. It’s very rewarding to know they actually listen, and I receive responses via email and FB.

      • 40 lamh31
        October 12, 2011 at 2:56 pm

        If is def something to keep abreast of. IMHO, all the time being used to try and sway us online skeptics are a waste of time and resources that OWS supporter should be using to inform the general public. It’s not us activist they need to get to. We are all accustomed to going out and getting th info we want for ourselves. The avg person doesn’t.

  7. 42 isonprize
    October 12, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    #OccupyAVotingBooth

  8. 44 a4alice
    October 12, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    I’m still keeping an open mind and seeing where it goes. that’s all i got on this one folks. back to painting my porch.


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