More photos at The Denver Post
Why are ppl saying Mittens won?
Because he made the POTUS look weak. Willard looked assertive. The POTUS didn’t show his usual strength.
He didn’t hae to get fiesty, he was Presidential and covered all his ground. I hope that was snark.
There you again repeating the rethug talking point. weak ? really ?
I am not repeating any talking point. I am stating what I believe. Feel free to disagree.
Yes, I am doing just that and calling your bs.
And yes, it is a rethug talking point.
It may be a republican talking point, but as stated I am not using a talking point, it is my belief. You may disagree with me, but really the ‘bs’ comment is not necessary. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
They said the same shit during then candidate Obama’s debates with McCain. Guess what? The insta-polls showed candidate Obama to be the winner of each debate by the viewers and he went on to stomp McCain in the general election.
I swear, you’d think PBO’s supporters wouldn’t freak out so damn quickly.
Obviously you came looking for a knife fight, PBO wanted a debate about two different visions. You left dissatisfied, I think PBO did his job.
I didn’t come looking for a knife fight and I am not freaking out. I do agree with Stephanie Cutter.
Claire, you are just so full of it…
Well, if you want to put it that way, I would still call it bs.
This is not a personal attack. This is an attack on bs.
What is “bs”?
The weak meme. It’s the standard thugs’ talking point. You also modified later as ‘not strong’ somewhere below. I call that bs. End of discussion.
It’s a personal opinion. If you disagree, fine. We simply do not share perspective.
It’s not disagreement. It’s calling out flat out bs meme spun by rethugs.
You may need to change your perspective of ‘weak’.
people like you need to get lost. Go troll somewhere else you republican thug.
I agree amk, I think all this President look weak is alot of bull shit.
And I’m not buying all the media crap about Mitt Romney won, as Rev. Al said does it bother anyone that Mitt lied. And another thing Romney look like he was going to cry. It is all about wanting this to be a close race and that is the B.S. that is being pushed by the media. And some of us is falling for it.
I am not a repub.
Whatever you are, it certainly isn’t well-intentioned…
You show up out of the blue and try to post as many negative comments as possible…
We’ve never seen you before and suddenly here you are with your crap…
Be gone troll…
If you are not a repub then you are thinking like them. PBO looked presidential. Infact my husband and I are wondering what pple are talking about saying that Romney won. Romney won nothing. He did not have any specifics on anything. To us PBO won this debate hands down!
You think President Obama looked weak??? So yelling, being obnoxious=strength? That is a new one.
No, I agree that yelling is not an effective strategy. I think willard’s assertiveness made the POTUS appear weak.
What you call assertiveness – I call bullying.
I would agree that he was a bully.
So…he was an assertive bully? Sorry, I could not resist. My view- I smelled desparation, he looked rather sweaty through out. I’m really puzzled that he has no plans for the 5T in tax cuts. He said a lot, but you really learned nothing! He also took credit for MA education ranking, and I believe that was after his reign. I would also be interested on the number of jobs created by the 3% of small biz owners. Will that be true or another lie?
I think he looked like a bully, but was very assertive.
Does that mean that the traits we need in a President should include being an assertive, lying bully?
I! Disagree with the pundits tonight. Romney came off as manic and rude. He wasn’t speaking to the American people, he was attacking the President, actually lecturing him, while lying about his own record. The President doesn’t have that kind of hyped up personality and may have been a bit thrown off by it. Mitt was steamrolling everybody on the stage, and it DID NOT look Presidential.
mitt was rude and totally disrespectful, He was even consistent with himself…he lied. Lying, rudeness and inconsistence does not make a winner.
I too disagree with you. Who the hell are you anyway.? Negative bs is not needed on this site.
Are you asking who I am? I am just a person who enjoys Chips site, but I am seeing tonight that perhaps I am no longer welcomed here. I just happen to agree with Chips and Stephanie Cutter about how the debate appeared to me.
You ‘enjoy’ Chips’ site so much, it took you 3 years to comment…
Nothing ever peaked your interest and yet in one night you’re brimming with comments – and all negative…
I have been commenting here for 3 years.
Could not disagree more. this was a debate on PBO’s part, Romney was only there to put on a show. substantively, PBO won hands down. I’m not looking for theatrics, I’m looking for facts. More over, this debate wasn’t for you or me, it’s for the undecided voters. This debate was a tool for PBO to use in order to— and i quote PBO– “draw contrasts.” he wasn’t there tonight to kick WIllard’s ass, it was supposed to cement the narrative about the differences between PBO and WIllard. Sorry you were disappointed but this debate wasn’t for us.
Thank you lisa. That is exactly what happened. POB knew what he was doing and to whom he was speaking to. He made a very clear contrast in what choices the American people have: A lying person who will say anything to gain power; or a president who will state his facts, work them out, and make sure that he is looking out for all people.
The voter has a Choice. Tonight was about choosing that choice based on lies or one based on the truth and carrying out those truth for the benefit of the American people.HZ
I so disagree with this theme. Don’t just pick up what the corporate pundits are saying and run with it. President Obama did not look weak. He looked like a strong, sure, calm, knowledgeable leader throughout. Willard looked bombastic, nonsensical. Will not appeal to the American people.
He didn’t make the POTUS look weak – he simply lied and PBO didn’t call him on it as much as he could have. The President is unwilling to call people liars – he assumes others have his own value set – Romney does not. He missed the early opportunity to cut Romney on the “trickle down” – which got him off on the wrong foot.
I agree. He did not defend his points enough. He was not weak. I think Mitt was too hyped up. The pres should have called him on the lies Mitt told, instead of shaking his head. The MSNBC group were ticked, Chris and Ed were the worst.
Forget emo Chris & Ed, why are they not calling ROBME on his LIES, should PBO do all the heavy lifting? Are the people going to call ROBME out? After all, it’s the people who have to live with their decisions.
Who cares if they are ticked off? Is PBO accountable to them?
I actually don’t think the president has one wit of expectations that Willard has values. I think he clearly sees him for the ruderless piece of work that he is. As someone mentioned earlier, you either spend ( take up all your time) countering Mitt’s lies or you try to advance your vision and policy goals.
This is where a stronger moderator, with a disire for getting to truth would have come in handy. This back and forth would have worked , IF Mitt was not so willing to lie and lie and lie, to etch a sketch his way to a whole new position tonight!
And if this was Jim Lehrer, moderator at his finest, then the bar was set very low for the other Candy GOP shill Crowley and John McCain’s pal Bob Schieffer…
That is a lie. Mitt did not make the President look weak.
ya know, whenever peeps says the president looks weak I always think of those dead Somali pirates. The President plays a long game. If, he knew something was about to come out about mittnocchio in a week or two, it would be better to be perceived as the loser of the debate than the winner.
I am of the mindset that PBO is trying to present his vision for the country as opposed to Mitt’s. It is hard to present Mitt’s vision when he constantly changes it so PBO used his precious little time to present and clarify his own vision. If his strategy was to bully and weaken Mitt then he failed. Many see that as the cause of a debate. PBO is giving his vision clearly so the people can choose between the two of them.
I expect for us to have this same argument again and again as to whether PBO had a good debate or not just as it ocurred the last time around in ’08. We basically define a good debate differently. Those that want aggression will always be unhappy with PBO because he is a statesman not a rough and tumble politician. He uses his brain not his brawn and plays the long game. Maybe we will even lose ground in the polls now so it is up to us to keep fighting for him.
I read my email from him tonight after the debate and when he asked if I am proud of him I have to say YES I am proud of the job he did in the debate. I do not want a lying, assertive bully President, but a calm, purposeful, smart truthful man as my leader and President.
I think PBO walks softly but carries a very big stick. PBO was powerful in the debate and from my perspective he won. One particular segment that had me and my other debate partygoers laughing til we cried was mittnocchio’s assertion he was good at collaboration. But his debate behavior belied his assertion. One of the basic tenets of collaboration is good listening skills, a respectfor boundaries, e.g. turn taking. mittnocchio failed at all of this. The other thing I mentioned is memorized responses for a policy debate which means he doesn’t know anything about the policies under discussion. And his attempt at compassion by describing all of the hurting people was belied by the fact he represents a party that has done everything in the House to block policies that would help relieve the suffering of all those hurting people.
PBO was awesome. If you think PBO is weak reread the story about PBO and the somali pirates. Reread PBO’s powerful but subtle remarks to the President of Egypt. Actually I feel sorry for mittnocchio because PBO let him do his crazy walk right off the economic policy cliff. Mittnocchio sounded like a right wing nut job. Here’s the most telling reason. It has been reported over and over again that mittnocchio’s team worked with him since August to remember a specific set lines just like Palin did for her debate with VeepJoe. First anyone who has to remember lines for a policy debate means they don’t understand specific of the policies nor their historical context. It means that the person cannot engage in a dialogue about policy because they don’t understand how different aspects of a poilicy intersect, interact, and in some cases conflict. People who understand policy like PBO also understand policy is often about tradeoffs rather than perfection. Only someone who thinks the American people are stupid and uninformed would assume aggressive incoherent word salad responses could substitute for a cogent articulation of one’s policy position.
I was amused by Ed’s anger at the President for not “taking” it too mittnocchio. But what poor Ed doesn’t realize is that PBO took it to him big time. The best line of the evening was delivered by PBO “this is where budgets matter because budgets reflect choices” – VERY, VERY POWERFUL
Absolutely spot on…
because Lehrer allowed him to get away with blatant lies.
Even when POTUS clearly gave facts, Romney lied immediately after and Lehrer did nothing to push back on it and consistently wouldn’t allow PO to correct him. Romney on the other hand talked over Lehrer regardless of what he said or did.
But my dear Watson is what all Repugs do…bully,lie,cheat, plunder and butt in and talk over people. It’s a strategy and it works, if you like
that sort of hype/propaganda.
Because he was loud, lied, I mean spoke more easily and able to repeat every one of those lies uncontested by the moderator.
I was at a debate party and everyone there was angered and repulsed by mittnocchio’s lies.
The three of us can hold hands and roll our eyes!
That was ‘interesting’ to watch, though I am quite proud of the classiness of our president.
Well, tomorrow is another day. #FORWARD!
VC, don’t forget our lunch date,okay? I am definitely sleeping in until 7:30! (is that sleeping in?, well, yes for me it IS!)
Okey-dokey. You have my special permission to sleep in till 8am! No sense getting out of bed before that – it would defeat the whole purpose of me being able to check to see that you ARE lazing a bit. If the doctor manages to see me on time (a rarety) i should be back by 8 your time. Then we can decide what’s on the lunch menu.
I couldn’t sleep until 8 if my I’ve depended on it! Hard to switch off a body clock that has been waking up at 5 or 5:15 for 7 months, 7 days a week! (at least, not at my age!)
‘Sleep in’ as in lie in bed. Put a book, or a magazine, beside you tonight then when you awake at 5:15 you just lay there and read – no getting up till later. As an earlier riser myself I do it all the time. There is ALWAYS a book on the bed beside me and when I wake up really early and can’t fall back to sleep, or just feel too rebellious to get out of bed, I flip on the light and read, sometimes for hours. You should try it sometime.
They have to have a race. MSNBC is all over President Obama because he didn’t hit romney everytime he spoke. Had to turn them off. He didn’t win any of the debates with Hillary, or McCain, but he is President. Good Night folks. I will check in in the Morning,
Thanks Chips for all you did tonight.
I thought the President did a great job. My favorite line “this is where budgets matter because budgets reflect choices” Also, the President referred to Romney’s policies as “nevermind”
I watched the debate on C-Span then turned it to MSNBC to see what they were saying only to get mad and turn it off almost immediately.
Roberta in MN
I think the president showed his bi-partisan side tonight. MYTH showed his multi-faces. I don’t care what the MSNBC pundits say either. I trust our President judgement.
What else does Romney have to do but lie and Bully? REV AL said it best:
Romney is his own problem. Clearly MYTH’s problem was in 1812 not 2012. He talked about the 10th amendment all night long. MYTH was patently contradictory.
Sureee , MYTH needed a game changer; but mark my words, in the end when the news cycle is over and the facts come out it will be Game over for Romney.
Ahhhhh…..now the moronic pundits tell us Pres. Obama failed. If you called moronic pundits giving moronic analysis…..DRINK!
I know!!! such bullshit! they wanted a knife fight, not an actual debate of ideas!!
This is the reason why POTUS don’t give a dam about the pundits, and I feel the same way.
Are you freaking kidding me !! Msnbc post debate rap up..STFU !! thank goodness for Lawrence O prospective..President Obama I thought was conscise .Mitt R is a liar and will always be a liar..then end
So the pundits are dismissing all of Mitt’s lies and flipflops just because he was a bully tonight. PBO did not need to be a bully. The fact still remains that Robney could care less about 47% of America. I think PBO wanted to get a feel for how to debate tonight and his style.
Yeah, they’re dismissing Mitt’s lies and flipflops from tonight’s debate. Romney did tonight what he’s done throughout the entire campaign, but they ignore that and go after Obama?
Romney was all over the place!
Chips – Thank you for being here for us all night!
Bringing this over from the previous post … didn’t know we were here:
Just mentioned to a friend online that before the debate, everyone was saying “PBO shouldn’t get too hotheaded.” Then, after the debate, everyone will say “PBO didn’t get hotheaded enough.” Nobody cuts him a break, but some of us. He was sure and steady. Romney lied. Enough for me.
Yup job. The usual CL’ing from the left. what else is new ?
You know, I suspect PO was just checking out Romney tonight. Gauging his competitor. I smell a strategy. Two more debates to go.
Agree. Good premise. He’s a major chess player, always 10 moves ahead, so I’m thinking you are right. Romney will be his prey in the next two.
x2. PBO is anything but stupid.
I justed posted the same thing Nospin.
That’s what I think, too. It’s also difficult to debate with an idiot who will say anything. anything.
PBO will win the debates, when all is said and done. So let’s get on with our work. Send money,
register voters, stand firm.
That’s what I’m saying. We’ve got two debates to go. Geez whiz!
I sensed that too. He was definitely getting feel, and planning some strategy there. He did a great job on his politeness to Romney, but I clearly know he has do respect for this douche bag. Plus who the heck brings all these flippin kiddies to a debate, especially one lasing for so late?
Vote for us, we’ll give you cute kids, so what If there our grandkids.
PBO’s strategy is to get his own plans explained clearly so the people know their choice. It also is to let Romney explain his own side which by the way is constantly changing and not factual or specific. He did it in a Presidential manner. He is not a Chris Christy bully type and will never be one nor did I vote for him to turn into a lying assertive bully. I am happy with him just as he is and do not believe a debate is a gun fight. Many do believe that whereas I think it is about convincing others in your beliefs through clarity of thought, otherwise just set up a boxing ring.
MSNBainC is giving a huge assist to Robney.
They think Robney is suddenly Mr Wonderful and the President sucks.
The is what they were told to do, this whole channel is garbage.
well to be fair, PO didn’t go at Romney the way I expected BUT, Romney came off as an asshole who does not have the interest of anyone but the 1% on his mind. That was very clear. What was also clear was that the man has no plan.
We already know that’s what they were planning to do. Absolutely no surprise for me.
I think the President was awesome! He was his classic self. There are times when I wish he would respond or do something differently but that’s my opinion. People there is nothing to do about a liar like Romney. The President would’ve wasted all his time responding to Mitt instead of putting his points across. I think people feel the President didn’t do enough because Romney is so hated they wanted the President to do what they wanted to do which is smack the crap out of Romney…by the way I think he did many times.
Mitt was a flustered, studdering, lying piece of crap and that was all that came across tonight.
Did anyone beside me look at Mitt and it look like he was going to cry.
Yes! Tears and sweat!
I was surprised to not hear that from MSNBC as they were showing the Kennedy Nixon debate tapes all week ahead of this debate. I do have to admit I didn’t watch them for long as they made me too mad and I turned the channel though. I saw his eyes looked worried, almost in tears, his mouth in a tight lipped almost smurky smile and a strange staring at PBO then having to wipe his top lip with his handkerchef at the end while PBO was summarizing. Then I heard Chris Matthews criticize PBO for looking down (whereas if he had been staring at Romney with contempt on his face for his repeated lies CM would have criticized that). CM went on to say Romney was assertive in looking at PBO. (that last part surprised me as most of us have mentioned the weird expression he had on his face when looking at PBO).
Yes anniebella, Mitt looked like was about to cry. His eyes were all red and funny and he did not look presidential to me at all. I watched the whole thing and I have no idea why people think PBO did not win this debate!
Have been in meetings the past few hours, have been tracking but not able to participate, but this is my summary of the debate …
@Lawrence In summary, Jim Lehrer enabled Mitt Romney to prove to the world he is a LIAR & a BULLY. #PBO provided facts & was Presidential.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
@Maddow In summary, Jim Lehrer enabled Mitt Romney to prove to the world he is a LIAR & a BULLY. #PBO provided facts & was Presidential.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
@stefcutter In summary, Jim Lehrer enabled Mitt Romney to prove to the world he is a LIAR & a BULLY. #PBO provided facts & was Presidential.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
Love it, Bobfr!
What the President accomplished was all that he needed to accomplish. In the face of an arrogant, lying, delusional, hotheaded bully, he remained Presidential and factual.
He will never win the vote of rabid racists and 1%ers, the ONLY ‘base’ Mitt has. Ever.
If the President acted out, then you’d have every reason to be concerned.
With this debate, he showed the world exactly the person who spent months carefully analyzing data, questioning, digging deeper and then making one of the gutsiest decisions, ever, and I’m not talking about taking out OBL, I’m talking about accomplishing OBAMACARE.
After careful consideration of the factors, I tend to agree with you. It definitely shows that Mitts has no respect for anyone in position of authority and will ignore or over run them to meet his objectives.
No respect, yes. Vastly incapacitated, emotionally – without any doubt. His wife is correct in being concerned about his Mental Well-Being if he were ever to be elected.
Agreed. Also, IMO PBO showed the demeanor of the president I would like representing me in a discussion with other leaders. Someone who can listen and respond courteously. Someone who can display a sense of fairness.
@chrisrockoz Mitt's behavior tonight PROVES his wife's gravest fear. If elected, his MENTAL WELL-BEING is beyond doubt, UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
I know that’s right. those rabid, racist are the ones who gave credence to those mythical poll numbers that lyin POS, Romney won. When the facts come out the undecided I believe will see for themselves just how much of an insincere jerk MYTH is. As I stated earlier MYTH definitely need to move the dial for a game change; but in the end when the truth comes out it will be game over for Romney!!!
Jim Lehrer was terrible. He was terrible. He allow Mitt to go over his time, to interupt, and all Mitt did was lie, and the media was impress with that. Speaks volume for the media. Keep up the good work Bobfr. You keep telling the truth. To hell with the pundits.
Per CSPAN it seems CNN debate timer said PBO had a little more time that Romney. However, it seemed opposite that because PBO spoke slower and made his points with more detail. Also, Robme rambled and didn’t take a breath, nor put a period on the end of his paragraphs.
see my tweet below.
People are saying Mitt won because of his aggressiveness. Period. PBO came with the facts and played it safe and Mitt was swinging for the fences because he is behind. We’ll see in a couple of days. Are people already locked into their view of Mitt and POTUS or did he Romney really do something that will give people a second look at him.
Mitt made the case he is totally for the 1%, that he has no qualms with lying even directly to the face of the person standing beside him. Even when he is given facts. None of that matters. He made the case that is is “severely” a right wing nutjob.
You know the polls are going to be scewed to Robney so we can have a horse race. Man sometimes I really hate the Media.
They have a long way to move Roberta – you may be pleasantly surprised
Are people already locked into their view of Mitt and POTUS or did he Romney really do something that will give people a second look at him.
i feel uneasy about the debate…because for many folks perception is reallity….
Brought over because it needs repeating. PBO is a statesman, and this is who he is. …and I appreciate and thank im for that.
Romney won the bully prize, the lying prize and the make-it- up as you go along prize. The pundits love aggression, so they will go with their agggressive man..who will lead them down the garden path with the distortion and lies.
On another note, Fact-check may be up all night ..and on another note,truth always wins out.!
Thank you for that recap, which I agree with and appreciate!
From one Trini to another, that is the best summation. Everyone wants Obama to be the stereotypical angry black man and yell and bully. However, that is not who he is. I am grateful for that.
Mitt Romney got a format that shows him to be a bully and a liar; he is Mr make-it-up as you go along and hope nobody sees the truth. Well, I and other smart people out there see the truth. Romney is smug, robotic and no matter what he said tonight, he doesn’t give a shit about me or the middle class.
Did you all notice he was forced to side with big oil? When PBO said Exxon doesn’t need tax breaks, ROBME took the opposit side. Another example of ***for the rich****
I posted this at another site because from what I saw PBO was playing rope a dope with mittnocchio “In competitive situations other than boxing, rope-a-dope is used to describe strategies in which one party purposely puts itself in what appears to be a losing position, attempting thereby to become the eventual victor”, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope
All I can say is poor mittnocchio. He and his right wing brethren just don’t get PBO, who played it so masterly. First, he mentions his anniversary and tells his wife the First Lady that he promises next year, they will not be spending their anniversary with 40 million people. PBO’s words were romantic, demonstrated his fierce love for the First Lady and how much he really wanted to make it a romantic evening just for the two of them.
joe biden commenting on debate right now
My analysis. Romney won on style tonight but lost on substance.— Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) October 04, 2012
Who gives a shit about stlye? Substance is what matters.
Not all the time. Remember George W. Bush? POTUS will be fine but the pundits and the folks on twitter wanted more read meat. That is all.
Words I needed to hear, "Governor, that's just a lie."— Goldie Taylor (@goldietaylor) October 04, 2012
Oh the RED MEAT is coming. Mittnocchio spewed the right wing nutjob lies. He had the nerve to say he cares about all the people hurting. Now who believes mittnocchio cares about people who are not corporations?
Romney’s ‘style’ consisted of overtalking loudly, lying repeatedly.. feigning love for teachers, the poor, etc. No win there and the style reeked of a mind in chaos.
Style? Wow—-if you like ugly—–with a permanent fake smirk, looking hot and bothered, appearing flustered and bombastic.
Did not win on style. I’m betting “middle America” did not appreciate that style either.
I guess Current tv is saying the same thing MSNBainC is saying, that the President got creamed.
I disagree, but whatever!
So the definition of winning a debate per the pundits is lie aggressively and flipflpop.
I wasn’t first cause I was off DONATING! Everyone DONATE! Let’s use the language Myth knows best, and pump OFA up to an astonishing amount tonight. Myth will get it that he lost.
Thank Pamela((((((( Love your common sense)))))))))HZ
shivering— (@big_bird) April 23, 2008
shivering— big_bird (@big_bird) <a href="https://twitter.com/big_bird/status/794829639"
#mittdebatetactics – "fast & furious" hoping voters will be bamboozled.— (@amk4obama) October 04, 2012
These moronic pundits don’t understand that Pres. Obama is trying to lock up the wishy washy independent and undecided vote. Indies don’t like testiness and personal attack. Romney was shouting, being loud and uber aggressive. That plays well with the base but not with Indies.
and perhaps that is what Romney was doing for his base….who may feel now that Romney can “take it to the President”
So correct in your assessment. Cooler heads like yours and President Obama’s will prevail. (I understand the worry of others, but I just can’t get into that. I saw beauty (PBO) and the beast (the other guy) tonight, and I’m voting Obama.)
I’m there too now jacquelineoboomer. It will be interesting to see if Mittiful will say something different in the next debates, than he said tonight. I think the next debates will be as steady on PBO’s part and just as frantic on Robme’s part as he gets closer to realizing it’s time to saddle up Rafalca and high step it on off.
Love it. And God knows what face makeup Mittiful will be wearing next time – I’m not sure I can look – but ghostly, ghastly white pink-cheeked didn’t do it for him.
excellent point jb
Yup, soft power
Question: Was the President not himself tonight; meaning did you expect him to lie, disrespect the Moderator and Mitt?
JMO President Obama honor himself and the American People tonight and that makes him a winner.
I so agree with you. I missed the first 30 minutes. I listened to it on my way from school and watched the last 40 minutes
on MSNBC. My first impression watching them side by side, was that the president doesn’t think highly of Romney. I believe
that he did have some respect for McCain, perhaps because of his age and service for the country. I noticed that he tried
very much not to look at Romney. He maintained his calm and cool demeanor. Some people will never understand why this
president will not show anger or overt aggressiveness. However, for those who gets, we admire him even more for his
Agree completely. Some people can’t see the forest for the trees. Simple minded.
That’s the problem with the pundits. They don’t understand the mindset of independents and undecideds.
Obama’s job tonight was not to give his base red meat. His base is firmly behind him. His job was to reach towards the middle. And that’s not just in policy but in demeanor too. Romney’s main job toniht was to give his base red meat because they are not firmly behind him.
I hope one of these days, the left pundits realize that too much bully culprit BS is why the Tea Party is in decline. It’s why we have so many Republicans losing their freaking minds. Why do they want the left to do the same thing? Honestly!
Me too! Hey, LL, we are like twins tonight (except I’m an apple girl!)
Romney won not because he was that good, he’s good a lying – he won because PBO didn’t use anything from his arsenal. Not the 47%, not women’s rights, abortion, Bain, immigration. Why the he’ll not?
BWD, I believe PBO is saving that for the next time. He set a trap for Mitt tonight.
COS, I’m sure you are correct. Tonight he let Myth set himself up, let him think he is ‘the winner’, and perhaps Mr. Lehrer did the same thing. I thought the ugly family coming up was grotesque, and there was Mrs. Myth with that finger pointing, gross. But POTUS and FLOTUS were centered, and regal, and generous.
Your inclination on this is dead on, BWD. Only thing I can think of is that he wanted to get Mitts on the record(yet again) and save all that you mentioned for another debate. I hope this is the right strategy. I’m not sure what the usual rating are for subsequent debates, but if they’re usually not as high, then it was indeed missed opportunities.
PBO’S ACTIONS TONIGHT WERE INTENTIONAL…HE ALLOWED MITTENS TO PUT HIS FOOT IN IT! PBO IS A VISIONARY…HE’S WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME!
KEEP YOUR ENEMIES CLOSE AND ABOVE ALL…KEEP THEM GUESSING…I’M SURE MITTENS IS SCRATCHING HIS SHALLOW HEAD TONIGHT WONDERING WHAT JUST HAPPENED! STAY TUNED!
I think the campaign decided it would be best to look presidential, but it just didn’t come across as strong, even though he was honest throughout the debate.
Stop it with your “not strong” meme.
We’ll see why he didn’t but they’ve been right on their strategy this whole campaign so my guess is that it was purposeful that he didn’t bring it up. Perhaps to let Mitt destroy himself with his own lies. The strategy might have been to appear presidential. However, like the picture Chipsticks had above, POTUS was looking down to much I think. Oh well, different than what we expected and Lehrer was useless but I don’t see it as a game changer at all.
BWD, those subjects were not part of the debate. They should have been, but they weren’t. That was Lehrer’s failure, not Obama’s. He couldn’t just start launching into immigration—-he would have been stopped in his tracks.
that is a good question….
i wonder why not as well…
the debate was set up to be a dueling match between gentleman…with a moderator to keep it honest but Romney is no Gentleman….instead it was more of prize fight in the ring…..
PBO reminded me of Ali doing the rope-a-dope
it became apparent early on that Romney brought his etch-a-sketch and bullying tactics to the debate….and the Lehrer would be of no help…
although PBO had the facts on his side….for 90 minutes the American People watched Romney take punches at the President….many times without the President returning the punches….it would have helped if PBO had called out Romney…using the weapons from his formidable arsenal…
the President appeared weak and distracted,,,,
the only good news in this?….
that there are 2 more debates….and that the President will have learned from his mistakes…
seriously, BWD, this was never going to be a knife fight on PBO’s part, it was about drawing contrast between both, which is exactly what PBO did.
President won BIG on Medicare, taxes and OBAMACARE, those are three very important issues to independents.
I think PBO chose to be Presidential and not act like a cable news host. I think PBO won the whole debate during the Medicare section when he forced Mitt to admit to drastic changes to the program for people 55yrs and younger. PBO made sure people heard that. In addition, PBO hammered home the fact that Mitt refuses to give specifics (which is what Independent voters want more than anything). I don’t think Mitt came across as more likeable or human. He seemed like a used car salesman who promises the world without giving any details of how he would do it. In addition, PBO called Mitt out on his refusal to reign in the extremists in his own party. In short, I think PBO was speaking to the voter like he/she is an adult. He pointed out that what Mitt is proposing is too good to be true (as evidenced by Mitt’s refusal to give details). To all the chicken littles out there, it is very difficult to debate someone who lies all the time. This is made even more difficult when the moderator is MIA. I think voters noticed that Mitt was selling snake oil and the voucher care stuff really hurt Mitt. PBO had to remain calm and cool and he did. My only compaint with PBO was his looking down at his podium when Mitt was speaking/lying. As for this “PBO looked weak” bs, I agree with AMK in that that is a GOP talking point. The moderator of the debate looked weak. PBO did not look weak, he looked Presidential and steady.
K, people chill out.
Instead of turning on each other, let’s focus on the next days ahead. I don’t’ believe this debate was a game changer whatsover. Case in point, even for the snapoll that said Romney won decisively, his favorable/unfavorables remained unchanged. Which basically means, PBO supporters that will vote for him regardless, were still somewhat disappointed in his perfomance tonight. But they will still vote for him and do not like Romney. No reason to panic.
silver lining for Obama in post-debate poll: fave/unfave numbers for both candidates mostly unchanged.— Peter Hamby (@PeterHambyCNN) October 4, 2012
If you like specifics & facts- then POTUS clearly won… If you love aggression & bullies- then Mitt’s the guy for you. Yes I do think its that straight up tonight. I like my President’s smart, informed, empathetic and willing to explain themselves clearly, along with their plans for me, my family, my country. Romney is not capable of this, he is neither leader nor Presidential- he’s a fast talking gas bag.
and fyi we all knew the pundits would fall over each other to declare Romney big winner tonight- they are quite predictable. President Obama was as always, a gentleman, a leader & a scholar.
I was just reading your comment above.. you & I are on the same page
Right on sherijr. I agree with you too.
thank you COS
Thanks sherijr. POB did exactly what he came in there to do. POB knows that Mitt lies and want to do this crap, so he and his team wanted to do exactly what he did tonight. POB allowed the country to see Mitt for who he really is and how he operates.
POB is the president. He showed us that as well. Now the America people has seen Mitten. Now thanks to POB, America knows because they saw Mitten in an important debate tonight.
Now watch out for the next two debates. POB had a stragety in 2008, and he won. They will show all these talking heads that their crap is just that. The president will win on Nov. 6,2012. The Independents were watching and listening and the voters will be the winners on Nov. 6th.
Now, if you really want to know who the winners were tonight were LOD and Rev. Al. In the second debate, POB will kick Mitten’s ass. Watch me, and not because the talking heads talk all this crap, but because POB is a master chess player. Watch my words. HZ
Great comment sherijr.
Exactly, Sherijr. Also we are repeating the same arguments after the debates of ’08. Some think a debate is like a boxing match or some atheletic event whereas many others think of a debate as an opportunity to bring others to your own way of thinking through clarity of explanation. I subscribe to the later theory and I think PBO does too according to his history of Presidential Debates. Those who believe in the first idea complained bitterly in ’08 as they do now wishing BO would have been tougher. Those of us whom believe debates are more of a celebral exercise appreciate PBO’s style then and now. This seems like a 50/50 deal depending on your belief on what makes a good debate. I’m more interested in who makes for a good President so lets keep on keepin on.
CBS did not have a debate poll this Year? Why not?
it did. it had Willard the winner at 46% and PBO at 22% and tie at 32%
CNN has PBO winning, forget the number, it was on twitter, same with Politco, PBO also winning debate.
i think the CNN poll was from 2008, don’t know about the others.
I do not think so, this was from someone watching CNN.
Unfortunately, from reading the tweets, I understand what Romney was trying to do. HE knew he couldn’t win on facts, so he did his usual lying, but not only lying, but lying LOUD and aggressively. For Mitt’s camp, LOUD = WINNING. That’s his strategy. That’s how he plans to win this thing. And all at the beck and call of the Tea Party.
When is the next presidential debate?
Romney lies? somewhere in the range of seventybillion.
Obama lies? 1 – when he told Jim Lehrer he did a great job.
Poll changing? Nope.
LOL @ when he told Jim Lehrer he did a great job.
I already see supporters using words like weak when describing POTUS and I’m gonna have to just take myself away from the tubes before I say something “inartful”. I’ll just leave u with what I posted on my FB page.
“FINAL THOUGHTS on the first debate tonight…NO GAME CHANGER. Honestly Romney may see a bump in polls, but I don’t believe he did enough to change the trajectory. At the very least he may have aided himself with his base, but I don’t think he spoke to anyone but his base. Romney lied his ass off the whole time, unfortunately PBO didn’t challenge him enough on his lies. As the challenger, Romney the one who was on attack the whole time. PBO as the incumbent has to still seem “Presidential” than his opponent, so PBO stay above it and refused to “punch down” even though we would love it if he did. My biggest beef with the debate was with the moderator Jim Lehrer. Jim Leher had absolutely NO control over this debate at all. He let Romney evade answering questions and also let Romney continue to go long on his answers and continually interrupted PBO. Lehrer should be ashamed of himself, an empty chair woulda been better.
POTUS supporters out there, do yourselves a favor and DO NOT WATCH the pundits after the debate. All of them CNN, MSNBC et al have already written their stories about Romney winning the debate. Romney wins the debate by merely being on the same stage as the POTUS. A close race sells more advertisement dollars than one in which one candidate is running away with it. Turn off the pundits and let it marinate a bit. Keep on Keeping on! Register to vote and make sure others are registered as well! IT’S THE VOTES THAT MATTER NOT THE DEBATE! GAME ON!”
I’ll just leave ya’ll with this, the low-info undecided voters on CNN when asked who won the debate: CNN poll: 53% for Obama, 47 for Romney. LIke I said earlier do yourselves and favor and turn off pundits and let hit marinate.
Good night ya’ll and have a good weekend.
Thank you lamh for your comments. Now, I am going to finish up my bottle of wine, and start reading from my stack of books.
I believed in POB before this debate, I believed in him during this debate, and I will believe in him after this debate. POB allowed the nation to see Mitt stand next to a sitting president of the United States and lie, lie, and lie. And this is the man that America wants to sit in the Oval Office and be our president? Really now. Now that was some optics tonight.
I am not giving up on POB, because I know for a fact, that he is the best man for this job and knowing what these crapheads set out to do from the very beginning of this president’s presidency, will take me and millions more to the polls now and on Nov. 6, to prove who really is the Winner.
My wine is too good to spoil my evening, and my president is too damn delicious to allow a bunch of “talking heads” and short memory low information people to continue to put down this president.
Sometimes, I really feel that we do not even deserve this man and his family and VPBiden and Dr. Jill and their family. What a sacrifice for a bunch of smallminded, greedy water carriers of the cable people. If it wasn’t for this president, many of them would NOT even have a show. They better pray to the angels that he wins because many, if not all of them ,will not be around after Nov.6,2012. What can you say about a liar everyday, if you can’t see or smell him and what he is selling when he is right in front of you?
Well, I am finish now. Enjoy your evening, and remember we are better than the crap that the talking heads want us to believe tonight. POB knew exactly what he was doing. And when have we start believing Todd, Fineman, Ed, and the rest of these people over a president who has given us so much to just plain live for each day. We will Not allow them to steal our joy. Not now. Good night everyone. ((((((( Thanks for everything, our beautiful Chips, and we lift our cups, and glasses to your steady hardwork in making this a beautiful haven to come to daily. I love you my special one))))))))HZ
Thank you so much for your clear analysis of what happened tonight. I loved the before, during and after statement. The President and his family give so much every day and he can never seem to do enough for so many. My dad , who is 94, and I have already voted for our choice. I truly believe he deserves another term. He is a keeper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow that poll is interesting. Thanks for posting.
I knew the polls would show Obama won. Same thing happened last time when they tried to say McCain won. Public said, “Oh no he didn’t.”
You know lamh35, even low information voters can sometimes sense who is feeding them bs! Most con artists are fast talkers and aggressive. I cannot stand fast talkers who try to bamboozle you while trying to sell you useless products. I’ve not watched the entire debate segment, but from what I’ve read from many comments, it sounds like Mitt was a fast talking, aggressive, con man. We already know that the media thrive on such people. That’s why the media are declaring Romney the winner.
I don’t think that Jim Lehrer expected to have to deal with a bully. Romney sucks at politics. He can’t even debate properly.
And I’m going to take your advice about not watching the pundits. I’m just as partisan as they can be, but I’m looking for the overall impact on everyone (including those Americans who aren’t political junkies).
Obama is going towards the middle because he can! His base is behind him. It’s Romney who’s trapped.
Thank you lamh35. If anyone ever listen to POTUS you will heard him talk about the pundits and cable tv. How he doesn’t waste his time with them. I see why. CNN poll says POTUS won the debate. How about that?
The most important question is not who won (how is that judged anyway; it is all perception), but was this debate a gamechanger. The answer is “no.”
For those who wanted PBO to be someone he has never been, he was elected being who he is and he will be re-elected for that same reason.
People take kindness for weakness and that’s what happened tonight. Because my President is respectful and tries to follow rules, he’s looked at as the weakling or a loser. I know it’s not his style, but sometimes you have to show people, better than you can tell them. Mitt is not respectful. He is a bully and the only way to handle them is to beat them down or shame them. Next debate, I hope he comes out whooping that hoe because you can’t respect a man who tries to test your manhood and that’s exactly what he tried to do with the Pres and Jim. BTW, Jim was a biotch with a capital B because he let Mitt walk all over him and he know he could try to get the President to listen because he’s respectful.
Here is the thing. American pundits, viewers etc.. , like it or not, like agressiveness. I don’t get it, that’s not my style whatsover, but they seem to equate loud/obnoxious/agressive = winning! That is not PBO style, has never been but he’s always won regardless. However, the chattering class’s always favored the bully no matter what.
What we have to remember though, is that even when they declared Hillary the winner, or McCain the winner, President Obama prevailed regardless so they can pretty much suck it for all I care. I did not watch the debate, followed the discussions here and on twitter and sure as heck am not following any stupid airhead on the TV so.. I’m calm and I know our POTUS gots this.
We just have to work harder to make sure he IS in the White House for 4 more years. There are 2 more debates to go too, anyway.
Tomorrow is another day.
actually I disagree. Pundits like aggressiveness.
Willard proved just how dangerous he is because of his willingness to flip on anything, lie blatantly, and he had no plan.
So to the independent voters, to folks who are voting for the President — President Obama did the job.
Nospin, that’s why I said regardless what the pundits said, POTUS won. He managed to cut through the chatter and reach people that matter.
my apologies. I missed that.
You may be right about some bully Americans and the imbecile media pundits, but I am not sure that the majority of viewers appreciate meaningless aggressiveness with no substance. The CNN poll, posted by lamh35, shows that the a decided majority did not agree with the verdict of the media pundits.
Political debates are competitions, but they are not sporting events. Especially debates during political campaigns since there is no scoring by a panel and voters are left to decide who won on their own.
I honestly think that pundits see the debate through partisan eyes. What about the majority of the American public who isn’t partisan? It isn’t just about communicating facts. It’s also the way you communicate.
But, most nonpartisan folks I know who aren’t preoccupied with politics (yes, there are people like this in Washington, DC) – don’t like bickering. They want cooperation.
And here’s another thing, if Romney could show that he’s a human being, his debate performance tonight would have been better. What Chris Matthews seems to forget is that Romney lacks the charm of Reagan and the “down home” feel of George W. Bush. Even Bush 41 had more of a personality than Romney. Why did the GOP get away with so much BS for the last 30 years? They ran candidates who people could relate to. Romney is not such a candidate.
wow. took me a few minutes to get the tv turned off, and heard a little of the abc propaganda after…i seriously do not know why so many of you all subject yourselves to this shinola. i could’ve told you exactly what they were going to say before they said it! it’s all so predicatable and has been done exactly the same way for decades. and it did get my blood pressure up anyways…this stuff is literally killing you that watch this stuff regularly. i’m serious. turn it off. we know what they’re going to say already about everything.
i’m feeling a little deja vu from when president obama would debate mccain. people wanted him to be more aggressive and have “zingers” and so on back then too, yet our president won in a landslide. he knows what he’s doing. i even noticed austen goolsbee on abc highlight the “details” plan barack seemed to have, and occured to me how this was probably a tactical move by our president to counter the “zingers” strategy that was getting so much promotion in the news. adults out there pick up on this difference in leadership, whether consciously or subconsciously.
and here’s the main thing: THIS MESSAGING STUFF MEANS VERY LITTLE. WHY PRESIDENT OBAMA WON IN A LANDSLIDE IS ORGANIZING AND OFA, AND ON THAT FRONT, PRESIDENT OBAMA AND ALL DEMOCRATS ARE DESTROYING THE REPUBLICANS. let the media keep hemming and hawing and thinking they matter, and they NEVER TALK ABOUT THIS ASPECT JUST AS IN 2008. then everyone wonders how president obama wins in a landslide. let them keep missing the point. it’s to our advantage. now turn that crap off, y’all, we’re doing great!
Did anyone factcheck Mitten’s lies tonight? So I guess lies don’t matter to the pundits.?
who cares. doesn’t matter. how many doors were knocked on today by each campaign? how many active organizing offices does each campaign have in each state? those are questions that matter since that’s how elections are won.
oh, and about “fact checkers,” i can save so many here so much time and emotion. they will find that “both sides” had the same amount of “truth” and “pants on fire.” there. no need to bother now. i told you what’s going to happen. now get down to you local ofa office tomorrow and kick some butt.
Think Progress did http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/03/953591/thinkprogress-liveblog-of-the-first-presidential-debate/
Thank you 4morefor44; I think I love you.
well now! love is all you need, after all:
Gore just said something really stupid.
He said, the President got to Denver at 2 Today, so the air must have effected his Performance.
Our Liberal media is eating their own!
this from the last losing democratic presidential candidate.
pardon me, Kerry was the last losing dem candidate, but the spirit remains the same.
Al Gore, the guy who lost to Shrub has something to say about PRESIDENT Obama’s performance?
yeah, fuck that guy.
Yah! Look what Al Gore’s aggressive mode of walking right up to GW during the debate when GW was speaking did for him? No one liked it and felt sorry for GW.
I didn’t know about that until a few days ago (I didn’t pay attention to politics then) and thought, “what the heck was Gore doing?”)
I’m listening to the everyday folks who are calling in after the debate on CSPAN. So far the Repubs and Dems alike are very reasonable and are not sounding like the pundits running around with their hair on fire. the good voters are speaking well for PBO and his detailed responses and the Repubs calling in are not very Gung Ho for their guy, even though they are backing him. I think many teabutts were thrown under the bus by Mitt and he’s doing his pivot to the center from here on out.
btw, tonight most tweets on Twitter in political history, such as it is, since it’s only a few years old. More than RNC and DNC.
I have a feeling that people who really care about their medicare and the middle class was listening closely to what the candidates were actually saying and not how aggressive they said it.
Yup. mittbot didn’t have anything close to resembling policy for all his bluster. While some may fall for the bluster (remember chris christie), many won’t.
Look. Romney finally took credit for Romneycare tonight! Tea party heads are now exploding! Enough said.
Just donated to the campaign.
me too–and it sure felt good!
That’s what I am talking about! On my way to do the same.
I’ll be honest, I thought that debate was a whole lot less than good for us, mainly because PBO let so many Romney lies go unchallenged – and I can’t believe he didn’t bring up the 47% and drive it home. He was dignified, honest, factual, decent, mannerly, civil – all the things we love about him, but Romney is the opposite of all that and I really wanted to see PBO take him on way more than he did. I’ve learnt a long time ago not to question the wisdom or strategy of the Obama campaign, I suspect they know just a little bit more than me about this election-winning business. But, again to be honest, I’m really disappointed by tonight and desperately want to see more fire in the belly, as Charles Blow put it, next time around. I’m off to sleep, talk to you tomorrow.
Chip if he responded to all Mitt’s lies he would never gotten his points across. He would’ve been brought down to his level which is really what Mitt wants. All Mitt did was repeat lies that are not working with the public. The President continued to show Mitt for exactly what he was.
btw…how are you? I haven’t spoken to you in a long time.
I’ve learnt a long time ago not to question the wisdom or strategy of the Obama campaign
Repeat, rinse, repeat.
I am not all disappointed since my ears were tuned towards policy.
Debates are a lot about theatre, we all know that. We know that on policy PBO win 100-0, but he had a bad night. Let’s hope that not much damage will be done.
Debates are a lot about theatre.
For PBO, it never was. I see the same and steady man from four years ago.
And if the polls prove that no damage was done, whatchugonnado?
I won’t deny that I was disappointed with the moderating and the fact that Mitt was repeatedly allowed to be a bully. However, it’s done. Me, I’m reminding myself of this video below, coupled with the fact that this was the first debate of three and I have a whole lot of confidence in My President.
Exactly. The President will now proceed to the crushing stage. Can’t wait.
THIS!!!!! he said he wanted a debate about ideas and to “draw contrasts.” this was never a knife fight for him. besides, he never cares about skirmishes, its the war that matters. I don’t care if he “loses” all the debates, as long as his messages are getting out and he wins the war.
I really feel all are reading this wrong and PBO came out & let Mitt expose himself. Watch how the pundits will change their tune. Mitt’s team was waiting for PBO to go after the 47% etc. Why not allow him to show his disdain of the 47%. Did any of you see how he effed-up Mitt’s closing statement? Mitt-Dood babbled bully-crazy through the whole thing, then went batshit in his closing statement. It was a thing of beauty! Was I watching the same thing?
Then how come a CNN poll shows that independent viewers say the President won the debate? Any way, since I’ve not watched the entire debate, I will reserve judgement about all this doom and gloom coming from people I highly respect.
Don’t believe the hype nathkun7. Watch the debate for yourself. Mitt lied and flip flopped all over himself. His refusal to give details was painfully obvious and PBO highlighted it on numerous occassions. There was no substance from Mitt. Pundit and many of the chicken littles on the left don’t appreciate substance. They like bluster and bravado. They want cathartic release. Instead of providing this “fool’s gold” PBO gave substantive answers and really scored points on Medicare (which won the whole debate for PBO in my opinion).
Maybe we should stop the debates then bwd. When listening to the debates you should come away with where the two candidates stand. Not worry about theater. We tend to fall for alot of this b.s. from the media, from those pundits.
nathkatun7, thank you for what you said about the doom and gloom.
Me too. And the public is responding in kind.
Yes, all the way with you here, amk. AND: we keep sending money, working at OFA places,
registering voters, sending money. yes.
I saw the same President Obama I always have. I know what he wants to do in the next four years. I still have no idea what Romney stands for.
“I am not all disappointed since my ears were tuned towards policy.”
Do you think most of those watching had their ears tuned to policy? Of course not. That’s my point.
And how do you know that ? Why do you assume that most people will always look for theatrics ?
Exactly. How do you know that this will affect anyone’s vote.
I agree with you amk. I think people were looking for Mitt to provide specifics of his plans and the fact that he did not was glaringly obvious. The only specific Mitt gave was when PBO forced him to embrace “Voucher care” and admit to drastic changes for people 55yrs and younger concerinig Medicare. That won the debate for PBO imho. I think some of us need to reflect on the debate and turn off cable news. The Independent’s who will decide this election were definitely looking for specific policies. Mitt’s refusal to provide those specifics was highlighted by PBO and I think voters noticed.
Chips, CNN’s poll that lamh35 posted should alley your fears. I think we must all stop buying into the media meme that the majority of Americans care more about theatrics than they do about substantive policies. You would be surprised how many people can sense who is selling them bs!
If Mitt Romney is talking about changing my Medicare, I don’t give a dam about style. If I am concern about my taxes going up, i am listening to what was said about taxes, if I have no health insurance, I am listening to what both candidates have to say. To hell with style.
Thanks Chips. And thanks for being honest. I haz a sad … I thought from the comments made here earlier that our President was really giving it to Romney then things seemed to turn. Now I sit here quietly on this blog and I hear Rachel’s voice and others coming from upstairs … bits and pieces … Romney’s name .. President .. everyone is yelling, I hear my hubby shout out “bullshit” and I just can’t take it.
I commented on Twitter about the 47% and those who wanted him to mention it. He may bring it up in other debates but seriously, he didn’t need to. MSM, Dems, GOP and the Obama camp talked about that 47% vid for days and days. Millions, literally millions have seen and or heard about the vid. It made the front page of newspapers. It was an actual defining moment that voters will not forget. Not mentioning it tonight is not going to make people forget it. Hell, even as PBO gets pummeled for not talking about the 47% video, the MSM is STILL talking about the video. Mitt doesn’t want that.
I don’t think Pres.Obama came with his A game as far style but I don’t believe for a second it will hurt him and it won’t bolster Romney in the polls.
Please go and vote in the Huff Post Obama is a little ahead 38% to 33%
Does anyone have a link to this? I can’t find it.
from sam wang, princeton election consortium:
Seems like Romney did ok. Landed some good punches, didn’t look like he was circling the drain. Obama was more natural and got off a few…zingers.
But it’s not enough to change anything. I suspect the race will stay where it is now, maybe narrow by a point. Stalemate. Which is not what Romney’s party needed.
i agree–myth needed a huge win, a decisive shift of the winds. anyone who has been paying attention at all saw him do his usual condescending, dodging, and moralizing. not a game changer.
i did think the president needed to be more aggressive and call Robot out on his lies, more. why didn’t he tackle him on his 47% comments? i think obama trying to play it safe, and that’s cool, but 50+ million people are watching these debates, the Superbowls of the election year. i want him to be more of a fighter to be honest. Not look angry, just a little more aggressive. You guys have to admit Obama wasn’t at his A-game, but he was solid though. The one thing we can hang on to is that Robot was spewing complete lies, and the sad thing is that some/most Americans are gonna believe them, but you better believe that the Obama camp will put out some devastating ads to shoot at Robot. 2 debates left though, maybe Obama will change his strategy. I just want Obama to knock him the fuck out! Maybe that’s just me…
I think I read earlier that Turkey fired into Syria? Maybe other crap going on with his full time job. He go an opportunity to talk to the undecided and explain his plan. He pointed out majar flaws and undeliverable arithmetic and Willard’s plan. He did not deliver the knock out punch, and Romney stayed on his feet, lying all the way.
All I’m thinking is no plan for a 5T tax cut. Really?
The debates are only the Superbowl of the election year to political junkies. To most of the American public, they are seen as a way to get to know more about the candidates.
Just returned from a packed watch party. Am sad to see this doom and gloom here.
The President did a great job, he didn’t need to bring up the 47% or women’s issues, they did not fit into the discussion. He handled the questions with accuracy, intelligence and good humor. He was much more warm and personable than Romney, his answers made sense and Romney’s didn’t.
We knew going in the media would spin it as a Romeny win and we are buying into their bull. Why are we helping them upset us?
I am proud of this PBO’s performance. I believe the polls among Independents will prove me correct tomorrow.
I hope everyone who is concerned about the President’s performance will feel better tomorrow.
I will spend the morning doing calls into Colorado in the morning and the afternoon phone bankiing.
Thank you wiw for bringing in the real world view.
yes to every single word you typed!! times 1,000!! one extra point, the polls are part of the whole scam, and will alter weightings to reinforce the media narrative, so i don’t really care much what they say in the next few days. we know they’ll show a couple point swing to mittbot to back up the narratives in “the news” tonight. doesn’t matter, since you and many others here will be working the phones tomorrow instead. thank you!! yes!!! forward!!
I agree with you whatisworking. I thought the President did what he was supposed to do. The Media likes a show and Romney gave them one with his “zingers of nonesense”. Maybe even fired up his Rightwing base. But I believe the American people will look right through him. MSNBC pissed me off when Tweety said that PBO should look at cable. They just make me sick.
Agree! It’s ridiculous. LIke i said, this debate was no game changer and so far the “insta-polls” and the caller on CSPAN are not impressed by Mittens.
People get so caught up in the spin from both sides and don’t even realize that they are doing so.
Like I said on FB take a break, turn off pundits and get to work.
IA, Honesty and Decency won tonight.
The media went straight to declare Mitt the winner; in essence saying lying and bullying is okay path to victory.
Thank you WiW. Let’s hope the Etch-a-sketch doesn’t get away with this complete turn around on his positions. I hope there are some responsible journalists who will point out some of the lies and put tonight’s bullshit in some perspective.
I’m sure the Obama campaign will bring out some ads pointing out the inconsistencies.
Pretty sure our President is now in a mood to do some “crushing”.
“I will spend the morning doing calls into Colorado in the morning and the afternoon phone bankiing.”
Thank you WIW! for all you do. I work tomorrow, but I will also be volunteering this weekend to make calls into Colorado.
Thank you whatisworking. I appreciate your input. All in all a good night. Romeny is major etch a sketching, and STILL no details, and now no 5T tax cut. Oh, and businesses do not save on taxes by going overseas. Oh…and Mitt is not cutting education in his budget. I see great ads in the swing states .
Thank you for your sanity. I agree with you.
I agree ,thank you whatisworking. I have notice how easy and quickly some is to jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon.
I agree. I thought the president explained his plans, Obamacare, Medicare, and deficit reduction well. I muted Romney because I hate his lies but his body language screamed entitled rich arrogant bully. I have a greater visceral distaste for him than Bush. All the debates in the world won’t change the record of the war-mongering, anti-woman, racist GOP. I will keep donating and phone bank. Pundits don’t represent me.
Where can we find the CNN Poll? I want to vote
Focus groups and folks calling are saying POTUS won.
There you go.
All I see is one CBS poll that give Romney a big win. I’d love to see something else.
there are actually more than one. Focusing on the CBS poll is exactly what the Romney people will do. You should know that.
CBS ? really ?
I am sorry BWD that you seem intent on pushing this gloom and doom! It’s just sapping our energies!
This was a poll only of so-called “uncomitted” voters (Usually Repubs) and are push-polls. They are skewed towards beltway pundit opinion and not particularly predictive of anything.
Trying to find that information. I watched the colored lines on the CNN on the undecided voters…hard to tell but women loved PBO, mem loved Romney.
Exactly, that is what my husband said and he is not even political. He said Romney did not even look into the camera and talk to the American people. He kept on looking at PBO.
I think we lost badly tonight and I hope it won’t change too much. I don’t know what was gojng on, but this wasn’t Barack Obama out there tonight.
I actually don’t think that. I think President Obama won on substance but Romney won on showmanship. The American People will have to decide which is more important going forward.
Bwd–please stop this. I have always respected you, and I’ve enjoyed reading your comments even the ones that I disagreed with. But this pessimistic view that you and others are engaging in because of a debate that showed Mitt Romney lying through his teeth and not giving any specifics is not constructive. Have faith and see what happens in the next few days. President Obama will continue to lead in polls because he has truths on his side.
thank you for saying this. I’m at my wit’s end trying to be considerate and diplomatic. the last thing I want to contend with on this blog is a bunch of emo shit. knife fights are fought and won at the polls. PBO telegraphed from the beginning that he wanted to have a substantive debate, not sound and fury that signifies nothing!!!!!!!!
BWD, there is no need to get so anxious, as per usual. It’s all good. You need to have a little more faith and know that PBO has got this.
Was there anything he said that you thought was truth, as opposed to win or lose? Theatre aside, this is about policies that affect people’s lives…..and then too, we know he can bring it when he needs to.
seriously, BWD? really? this is ridiculous. I thought PBO did a solid job and met his objectives. if you want a brawl, show up at the polls and vote. that’s the only victory that counts.
More of the “sky is falling” bullshit some are prone to. Mitt lied and flip flopped the whole night. How is that “winning” the debate? I think Mitt lost seniors with his embrace of “voucher care” and promise to drastically change Medicare for people 55yrs and younger. Voters are looking for specifics and Mitt did not provide any. His numbers don’t add up and PBO pointed this out (PBO even quoted Bill Clinton’s arithmatic line). I really don’t understand all the doom and gloom, but I am not surprised in the least, disappointed but not surprised.
Thank you fosr keeping me sane last night. II had to come back and read your posts over and over agin. I thought I was going to lose it reading the ‘sky is falling” from folks that are supposed sto know better.
Last night was a mess, miss pat. But we’ve got to stay strong in the face of our enemies and in the face of the doubters and fair weather friends.
Who was it out there tonight BWD? Never mind forget it. I am fed up with this doom B.S.
Why are democrats going crazy on the Internet? My gosh people, please calm down and go watch President Obama first debate with John McCain in 2008. People said pretty much the same thing that they are saying now—that John McCain won. Guess who was elected President. President Obama won on substance. He was never going to go ballistic on Mitt Romney, because that has never been his style. Please have faith in the President and recognize that he knows what he’s doing.
egg’sack.lee. I am seeing the same debate and the same CL’ing.
Romney won on style, lost on substance. Doubled down on same policies that have dogged his campaign — $5T tax cut, Med vouchers, WS repeal.— Stephanie Cutter (@stefcutter) October 04, 2012
she’s just admitting what other people are saying. PBO was right on policy, WIllard hammed it up.
Fine with me too. Push that he was all talk and nothing to back it up. hey, you gotta work with what you got.
One of the few useful Knoller tweets:
More on empathy: Poll shows 69% say Pres Obama cares about their needs and problems – up from 53% before debate.— Mark Knoller (@markknoller) October 04, 2012
Sp what you seem to be saying is … unlike the comments I am reading above and the yelling I hear from hubby’s man cave tv upstairs is that our President could be his calm, cool, collected empathetic self with facts and truth and the people would see that and respond in kind. Thank you.
Yep. A male friend of ours called and was insisting that PBO should have ATTACKED more. Did these people learn nothing in 2008? Oh, and BTW
Take that pundits. RT .@teddygoff In under 30 minutes, the most retweeted @barackobama tweet of all time: twitter.com/BarackObama/st…— Pnthrgrlgail (@Mama4Obama1) October 04, 2012
I knew that would be the case. Obama’s calm manner and smart answers would appeal to the public. Don’t listen to the pundits, and I’m disappointed with some here who have been influenced by their corporate opinions. We all knew what they were going to say before they said it because they have been setting it up for that scenario. People need to pay attention, listen to the words in the debate. Look at the style of each. One was presidential, one wasn’t.
Yes! Wish Al Giordano was writing this season. Too many Chicken Littles.
I am completely convinced that tonight, POTUS decided to give Romney the rope and stood back.
That’s my feeling, too, Nospin.
He sure did Nospin!
To what purpose?
To let mittbot win ? Foolish question, bwd.
amk seems to me some are determined to push the doom and gloom. To them I ask, “To what purpose”? How is all this angst and negativity helping our cause? How many times do the chicken littles have to be proven wrong before they give PBO the respect he has earned?
To hang himself. Romney was testy, bullying, sweaty, and sounded like a huckster. In addition, Romney may have alienated his base by trying (lying) to moderation. Romney needed a game changer and this wasn’t it. Did he gain any voters? I doubt there was a net gain for Romney, the base is not going to like what they heard tonight, they don’t like him anyway, and neither does anyone else, except the 1%, and not even a majority of them.
Just donated to the campaign too. The CNN poll says it all…..REAL people know. Self identified pundits are full of hot air.
Some people are hilarious. Freaking out because the pundits tell them to freak out. CNN just polled their focus group and Pres. Obama 53, Romney 47 on who won the debate.
Frankly, I don’t give a crap. Romney did not provide one specific and Pres. Obama hammered him on that. Pres. Obama was not playing to only his base. He has his base locked up. Independents and swing voters say they want specifics and Pres. Obama provided that. Indies don’t like yelling, personal attacks and the like.
I’m standing behind my guy because his ground game is kick ass.
Thank you UT. I see the usual suspects are doing exactly what they usually do. I suspect the same people probably felt the same after the Obama-McCain debates. Everyone wants instant gratification instead of waiting for things to marinate. Also people love to complain about the punditry, but funny enough, the pundits are doing exactly what we expected them to do. Turn them off, why let them affect you.
Freakin’ punditry is such a waste of energy. The ad men are going to do what the ad men do. To pretend that there is even an ounce of objectivity is ludicrous.
Yup. Peeps are letting pundtwits win over them than the reality. This is fucking media we are talking about people, remember ?
I’m sure Romney’s verbal crap tonight will be the fodder for many Obama team ads. The lies and turn around in positions was truly astounding. Team Obama is going to use this fully.
Oh.. and I was so convinced when Romney tried to tell us how much he cares for the poor, and how much he loves teachers, and what a great admirer he is of bi-partisanship. And how much he loves big bird but would still like to finish him off.
What a douche!
Don’t mess with big bird.
Walking on sunshine, I’m sure BIG bird would like to finish Romney off! What a committed liar. He stood by his lies and gave no facts.
Has there ever been anyone who has less problem lying? It doesn’t bother him one bit. Totally devoid of any integrity. Complete douche!
thank you UT. thank you. I’m about to lose my fricking mind at some of the people on this blog who somehow think that PBO should have brought the axe down on WIllard’s head. Just keep cool and stop fucking shitting yourselves, dammit!!!
As I have already posted, PBO won BIG on Medicare, taxes and OBAMACARE! VIP issues for independents. He’s got this.
UT, Now that I’ve watched the debates, I am with you 100%! Enough of this gloom and doom! It was predictable that the majority of the media pundits would say Romney won. They certainly behaved as predicted. But regular people in that CNN focus group poll debunked the media pundits. Besides, what’s wrong with some of us Obama supporters? Why are we buying into the media meme? Are we endorsing all the Romney lies? Is lying aggressively considered a virtue now? I don’t care how aggressive a person is, there is absolutely no way I would praise a liar!. No way! So instead of blaming President Obama for telling the truth calmly and respectfully, why aren’t TOD members out there aggressively pushing against the lies Mitt Romney told tonight? Why are we letting the MSM media frame the response to the debate?
Well, the Media did what David Plouffe said they would, write the comeback of Robney.
Right On jovie141.
That’s exactly what the media is doing, Jovie. Sadly, some of us here at TOD seem to be buying into (or at least aiding) the media plan. Instead of fighting back, we are acknowledging defeat; just because the pundits in the media said that the President lost. I’ve watched the Debate, and there is no way I would concede that the President lost this debate. What I saw was an erratic Romney, facilitated by a weak moderator, who was all over the map repeating lies without ever providing specifics about his policies. On the other hand, the President was calm and methodical in giving specific answers while remaining respectful of his opponent and the moderator. I dare all those who say that Romney won to tell me specifically what Romney said he would do that would improve the lives of Americans. Just name at least three specific things that Romney won on.
I agree with your take on the debate and the chicken littles spreading doom and gloom (I advised you upthread to not buy into the hype and watch the debate yourself). One would think that after being proven wrong again and again, the chicken littles would be less bold in their predictions of doom and gloom. Do the chicken littles ever apologize when they are proven wrong?
no. in fact they usually double down. makes one wonder what they’re true motivation is. hmmmm…..
ugh. “their.” need sleep now…
I think PBO’s intention was to look presidential and was concentrating on the facts. He deliberately did not want to kick mitt’s cute ass. He simply wanted to convey facts to american people and to some extent, was not interested in Mitt at all. I agree Mitt looked like the winner of the debate, but once the dust settles, people will realize, Obama was successful in giving details and facts while the other guy was simply a failure in doing the same.
@Zoocritter @zoomarang CNN snap poll gives debate to Obama 53 vs 47— Rita A (@ritaag) October 04, 2012
Here’s my two cents:
Biggest losers of tonight’s debate? Big Bird and Jim Lehrer. MSM will say Mitt Romney won and yes, I have to admit that he was aggressive and forceful. But IMHO, he was at his etch-a-sketch best, changing positions mercurially and acting like a school bully. President Obama was measured, but could have done a better job of exposing Mitt’s lies. Best line? “Is the reason Gov. Romney is keeping his plans secret because they’re too good?” But have no fear, check here for the fact checking:
Here’s a thought, guys. We all know that tomorrow some on MSNBC and beyond will say the President didn’t “win” this debate, he didn’t pull it off, he didn’t do enough. Maybe we should remind some of ‘em – especially the far left – how they went after PBO the day after his inauguration, and didn’t let up until after the 2010 election. Remember we can name names of the pundits who said everyone should just stay home in 2010 to teach President Obama a lesson, because he didn’t do everything they thought he would – things he hadn’t even said he’d do. He didn’t fix the potholes on their streets and same-sex marriage isn’t law yet, etc., etc. They threw him over the side. And then in 2010, Democrats didn’t show up at the polls, and Nancy Smash lost her gavel and we got tea party people in Congress and lost the House and barely have the majority in the Senate. Then the PL said “Oops!”
So, I’m thinking whether or not President Obama meets everyone’s expectations in Debates 1, 2, or 3, we should get out the message that he met our expectations, Romney didn’t, never will, and we need to get to the polls on Nov. 6 and show him our support. We need to re-elect him to thank him for putting up with all of us for the last four years, and to, mercifully, keep doing what he’s been doing as President, and more. And for putting up with the other side and all their lies and hatred and bigotry. I’m thinking we need to push that message every day until the people finish voting the night of Nov. 6. Screw Debates 1, 2, and 3. We all need to remember the big picture, myself included.
If we don’t? We get Willard and Ann in the White House, and Paul and whatzhername in Joe and Jill’s house. It’s already a 50-50 country. Let’s not give up some of our 50 percent, without a big fight.
good points. our job is to keep the faith, and keep the good word going out. pbo is the best, and we have confidence in his leadership.
X 1,000,000 !!!
YAmerica, you have witnessed the first debate. If you are a member of the middle class, who provided a plan with details to improve your life for your future? if you are a student, who provided a plan to secure your education for your future? if you are a senior citizen, who provided a coherent and plausible plan to make life better for your future? If you are worried about your health care, who allayed your fears with a coherent and believable plan? If you are a voter, who presented a plan that makes you look to the future with hope and security?
On the other hand, if you are an aggressive bully, who showed you how to enhance that trait tonight?
Answer these questions honestly, voters of the USA, and then decide who has your best interest at heart and vote wisely.
Does anyone have links to the various polls, that would be helpful.
ok Here’s this one again:
@barackobama was calm cool and open. @mittromney flustered, bullying and disrespectful. winner? #OBAMA2012 #ofa_mn— (@a4alice) October 04, 2012
Love it. Off to R/T.
For those of you who think the President should Trash Willard, and annihilate Him?
Maybe you should have voted for Hillary, because that is not his style.
I thought the President got in his talking points, and set the record straight on a lot of issues.
So what, if he didn’t kill Robney, again, that’s not his style!
so true! pbo is calmly allowing myth to tangle himself up in lies, and just fall to the floor.
Jovie? I really fucking love you, even though sometimes we disagree. I really fucking love your ass.
So true, Jovie, so true!!!!
Folks, that CNN poll that has President Obama winning the debate 57/43, is this a real focus group of undecided ? Or is it an simple on-line poll, which obviously doesn’t mean anything ?
It’s not their poll. Their poll had Romney winning 67-25.
wow. a network that’s now as bad as fox news has viewers that think the republican won a debate!?!? shocked i tell you, shocked!
The online polls matter after debates — they help set the narrative. It’s not line a regular poll vs. an online poll. Vote in as many possible. It’s important.
CNN poll says romney won the debate, 67% Obama 25%
Yep, we lost badly and we should recognize that. I don’t know where his head was tonight, but it wasn’t there. Let’s hope that it’s not a game changer.
Go away now … you lie.
So you think a liar won? Someone, as Ted Kennedy said is “multiple-choice Romney”. Or as Richard Wolfe said “it’s hard to debate jello”. Romney won if you think lying and bullying is winning.
Your concern trolling is starting to piss me off now, BWD. I don’t know what the hell happened to you since your DKos days, but enough of this shit. Seriously. We don’t need you dragging people down here. You should know how PBO operates after all these years. If you don’t have the confidence in our guy or the stomach for this last month in this election year, step off. But don’t try to depress others here with that shit.
And anyone else, if you were fucking paying attention in 2008, the media tried this same shit after each debate candidate Obama had against McCain. According to the pundits, McCain won each debate. Insta-poll results from viewers showed quite the opposite. And in the end, it doesn’t matter one fuck what the pundits think. Only thing that matters is what the voters think.
I think we all know by now how 2008 turned out.
Hear, hear. Concern trolling not at all helpful, neither is crying in one’s glass. Cut it out, for God’s sake.
Amen! I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I agree 100% Axel. I am very disappointed with BWD; what happened to her optimism and respect for PBO’s brilliant mind and his chess vis-a-vis checkers game plan?
seriously? BWD was your account hacked? Please stop this right now. you are pissing me the fuck off. if you want to doom and gloom, please do not do it hear.
I thinks she may have been hacked because where is her regular gravitar. If this is the real BWD, then I’m disappointed by this shit that has been said.
Sounds like the same concern-troll that she’s been since coming back from her “hiatus”. I’m not surprised by any of the posts.
Please go to bed. Things will look brighter in the morning.
I am sorry BWD! I know you’ve been a strong support of the President, but tonight you are doing nothing but depress all of us! We got your opinion that the President sucked, but some of us who watched the debate disagree! So why must you repeat the same thing over and over again? By the way what exactly did Romney propose that was a game changer? Just name us one please!
Where is your avatar BWD?! Btw debates rarely ever show who will win the presidency.
No “we” did not lose. The wrong examination of heads are being done.
If this is an online poll it’s bullshit
It’s not. It was a phone survey.
CNN probably handpicked their sample. I’m not buying ANY thing from push polls at this point. They are simply not valid. Romney desperately needs a win that the MSM will do whatever they can to help him along. I will wait one week and see where the majority of polls are by then.
It appears that from that same poll, both candidates favorables/unfavorables remained the same. So you know what, let’s just roll with it. I’ll be mocking Mitt wanting to fire Big Bird, and defending President Obama on substance, which is has what has won out so far in this campaign, and what I believe will win out over the next week. TPM already has two walkbacks from tonight from Mitt’s camp.
chicken little is, as chicken little does.
Here’s the CNN Poll showing Obama won
This is from 2008.
Sorry about that – that’s from 2008! Chipsticks please delete if you can.
That’s from 2008.
Are they running for the Office of Presidential Debates or the President of the United States? If people want to say Romney won on the debates, then SO WHAT!
REMEMBER PBO got Romney to confirm in front of the Country and World, just for starters that he would as President
1. CONTINUE Tax Cuts for Rich off the backs of middle-class and poor and blow up the deficit
2. REPEAL Day 1 ObamaCare. This is life and death to many people.
3. Replace Medicare Plan with VoucherCare Plan.
4. REPEAL Dodd Frank. Bring about another GFC at the end of a Romney Presidency, and
5. KILL BigBird. An Icon to many generations in and outside America.
If these 5 (okay just take the top 4) alone are what People want to vote for when voting for Romney then God Bless All of Us because this is the Future they want.
@mittromney make you mad? You can take it out on him by donating contribute.barackobama.com/?source=donate…- h/t @___Chips___ #ofa_mn http://t.co/aAWoXBB1— (@a4alice) October 04, 2012
I’m definitely scared now. I don’t know if this will change the polls, but I hate the idea that now Romney has his opening. I expected Romney to be aggressive … I just expected Obama to hit back more. If he loses this election, it will be because of tonight and that’s such a shame because it really shouldn’t come down to one debate.
OMG. You have got to be kidding. This sounds like 2008 all over again. “If the President doesn’t attack he’ll lose”. Why isn’t the President more emotional. My Gawd.
This isn’t ’08, though. Polls showed, after the debate, that Obama beat McCain decisively in all three debates. I don’t think his performance in ’08 is comparable to what it was today. In ’08, he took McCain’s attacks, but hit back in a very relaxed way. In this debate, he let Romney walk all over him after that first exchange. I felt Obama dominated the first part of the debate, that first segment, but after that, it was all Romney … fair or not. How many times did Romney accuse Obama of something and the President didn’t react at all? Why didn’t he bring up the 47%? Why didn’t he hit Romney on the crap about Green Jobs? He left Romney dictate this debate and because of it, Romney won. Now Obama has to find a way to change the narrative at the next debate because a second loss could doom him.
seriously? Please go take a valium.
You are seriously trippin.
????? What are you talking about or did you play a drinking game during the debate? What makes you think that Robme will turn the numbers around among nearly every demographic because of Robme rattling on and on awithout saying a thing? Voters are not that dumb and the folks who are voting against PBO were going to do so anyway. They don’t like Mitt, but hate PBO. Your fears are unfounded and has no place in theory or fact. Oh ye of little faith.
WTF are you takling about??? Romney is an unintelligent mess. LIE LIE LIE.
Yes, Romney lies … but apparently it works, since the CBS flash poll and the CNN flash poll have him dominating the debate. I’m sorry, but we can’t be disillusioned here or we’re going to lose this election. I really hope the Obama team isn’t thinking along the same lines as you all or he’s going to get his butt handed to him in the second debate.
You got to stop being blind to what happened. Obama didn’t do well. He wasn’t stupid, like Bush in ’04, but he looked weak and hardly ever hit back on Romney’s attacks. He played prevent defense and it cost him this debate.
I agree. This was terrible and for us to sit here with our fingers in our ears, is a huge mistake. PBO will have to have a perfect second debate, and his campaign will have to react quickly tomorrow. I really don’t know where he was tonight.
why is it that you only get really active in the comments here now when you have a doom and gloom narrative to push? simple, honest question.
Even if you’ll shout louder, it won’t make this true.
Your concern trolling only solidifies what i’ve always thought about you.
4morefor44 has a valid point.
That’s a lie.
No it isn’t.
You watched a competely different debate. All Romney did was repeat the same lies that have been proven to be false. He was pathetic. And a media deperate for the big $$$$ to keep flowing into their coffers until Nov 6th won’t change that.
POTUS handed Romney his ASS.
Go watch it again.
You freaking rock Tally. Your commentary is so full of WIN.
I don’t argue that PBO was far better on the issues. That’s not even a discussion. They’re not in the same league. But like it or not, debates are theatre, at least to some degree. At least challenge his lies in an aggressive way. We, who know PBO better than anyone, can also recognize that he was way of his usual game. He let the bully bully, that’s what pisses more than anything.
You really need to stop.
Disagree. Romney kept talking over everyone and saying NOTHING.
Lying would work if Romney had charm. He doesn’t.
Go get another pint Irishman. It ain’t gonna happen!
So was lam35 mistaken?
One debate and you are ready to throw in the towel? By the way what specific policies did Romney propose that were game changers? Please at least name me one! The way some of you Obama team members are reacting to just this one debate is shameful. To use a football analogy, a team does not give up because the opposing team scores first. And especially if that score is a field goal and not even a touch down. Winning teams stay focused and don’t turn on their quarterback after the other team scores. Enough is enough of all of your gloom and doom! I’ve watched the debate and I am not at all convinced that an attentive person would say that the erratic Romney won the poorly moderated debate. In my humble opinion, the President won both on substance and demeanor. Again to go back to the sports analogy, I would rather have a calm and cool Tom Brady as a quarterback than the erratic, excitable, Tim Teabow. President Obama was calm and focused while Romney was aggressive and all over the place. In the end, will Americans vote for an erratic President? I highly doubt it.
Ok, I’m watching the debate again on CSPAN’s rebroadcast. I’m going to listen with a different perspective to see if I get something different from it. This time I think Lerher will do a better job.
Nice of you to give Jim a second chance! Please let us know if we missed anything good, because emotions were so high the first time we all watched, I’m sure! (My heart’s still beating fast.) And then we can all pass around the latest good points!
For anyone feeling depressed or down, @jeffersonobama is making tons and tons of sense.
I’m about halfway through, and Romney is a desperate, lying asshole, who won’t shut the fuck up because HE IS DESPERATE. He looks pathetic, and stupid,
How on earth could anyone HERE be depressed?
Vote in these online polls, make your voice heard.
The first poll is cookie-free and can be voted on multiple times.
Thank you. Let’s tweet this out to as many obama folks as possible.
I really appreciate the link 57.
Tally, I am not one bit depressed, and I don’t think PBO looked weak by telling the truth. Romney sure did look desperate and like his life depended on it. The fact still remains that what he said was basically the same lies and flip-flops. I think PBO did a great job.
That’s exactly the way I felt after watching a re-play of this debate. I think people are being influenced by views of the pundits.
FUCKMERUNNING. I am watching the debate now, and I am screaming at the TV.
Romney says he's going to CUT PROGRAMS. Which means CUTTING JOBS of all the people who run those programs. #RomneyFAIL #GOPFAIL— Tally Briggs (@bardgal) October 04, 2012
RT if you think President Obama won the debate #msnbc2012— Ed Schultz (@edshow) October 04, 2012
PBO won this debate on honesty, substance and truth.
Thanks, Tally, for posting Ed’s tweet. Let’s all R/T it and get that message out there, rather than anything positive on Rombo. I wouldn’t give Rombo a good mark on anything but showing up on time.
why doesn’t this fool go fuck himself?
yep, who cares what he thinks. He wants a fight and PBO had too much class to give him one. Plouffee was good tonight extinguishing the hair on fire maniacs. They all were on the crazy juice tonight.
This was not a debate, there was no moderator. This debacle did not change my mind. I thought PBO did just fine, intelligent, in contol, polite, knowledgeable. Romney did not impress me as a credible candidate Chuckie. Was this suppose to be a debate or a boxing match? People are voting, have been voting, this one fiasco is not going to determine the election. Everyone just VOTE!
Agree 1000%. IMO, if you think this guy Lehrer was bad, wait for the next two. Lehrer lost control of the debate. He didn’t call time on Romney. He let Romney bully him. I guess President Obama loses points for being polite and sticking to the rules.
What I hate about some of us is that we have a short memory of the mo of our President. President Obama always look at the end game.
A debate is only as good as the moderator treating each debater equally with the rules. Willard bullied Mr. Lehner and disrespected the rules. Willard talked fast and aggressively, said nothing different and offered no plans for promoting a better Anerica. We like to have our ears massage and we are always looking for the next fight. When our expectations are not met and we lose confidence then we feel disappointed. I think President Obama thought that Mr. Lehner would be a fair moderator and control the debate better than he did, but he didn’t and he lost control because he favored Willard Romney. This one debate will not change the outcome of this election. The facts are a presidency under Willard Romney will be a total disaster for most Americans. He has no plans that he is willing to share other than defunding PBS. Always the tear down mentality.
President Obama has told us and he has demonstrated that he cares. He ain’t scared of no fight especially one filled with rhetoric of talking fast and furiously and saying nothing.
Romney looked scared cause he knows that a azz kicking is on its way.
President Obama is self assured and he does not have to wear himself out because he knew the media would promote the dumbness of Willard at having won a debate. Willard did not win. He offered the American people nothing. He is going to take and destroy what is left of this country.
thank you Mae. I so fricking tired of the damned concern trolling going on here tonight. I really want to say a few things to a few people but I’m afraid it will get me banned. Fricking bullshit.
I’d be curious to hear what the RWNJs including Ryan think of Romney’s sudden and obvious pandering lurch to the middle. I couldn’t believe how much he was trying to sound like a moderate, rattling off lies faster than he could blink. All contrary to everything he’s said on tape.
Meta, I totally agree with you. I am very disappointed at these pundits who seem to have overlooked all of his lies just to say he won because he was a bully.
He had to get to the center at some point. This is it and will be from now on. The teabutts will grumble but will be OK with it, cause they liked the bully Robme on display tonight. I was over on 2 RWNJ sites and they think he’s finally doing a good job. All because he’s being a bully. The thing is, it’s too late to go to the center for the folks whom he needed to convince way back in August.
okay, two more cents…
Here’s a thought… my President had to be presidential and not act like a schoolhouse bully. If PBO had been as aggressive as Romney was tonight, could the “angry black man” meme have been far behind? Faux news and Daily Caller were already poised with that meme with their so-called “shocking” video that they “exposed” last night, which, unfortunately, was out there since 2007!
yep, spot on.
The problem as I see it is that pundits and the media see these debates as sporting events–who’s up who’s down. Who can shout the loudest or who can lie the most convincingly and get away with it are the qualifications in their minds. That’s Romney’s audience. President Obama is not cut from that cloth. He takes the job of President seriously. Everything he has done, from the moment he campaigned for the presidency to his first term and up to this very moment has been for the betterment of our nation and its citizens. He has not let us down. He wants a serious discussion on the issues. He wants to improve the lives of all our citizens. He explains things, he’s transparent in his motives and the things he wants to do and why. He’s proven his medal time and time again. I trust him and that means I also trust him in how he handles his campaign and that includes debates, too. President Obama was the winner before he stepped to the debate podium, and he was the winner as he stepped away from it.
Absolutely! PBO will still be President tomorrow and on into 2016. The talking heads wanted PBO to be drawn down to MItt’s level. PBO didn’t take the bait. It would have been a free for all and PBO knew that’s what the red meat crazies wanted. PBO will take it on the road and there will be a very zealous crowd eager to meet him. Mitt will get a 2 day bounce, but it won’t last, once the fact checking and the missing specifics come to light.
HHO – Every word you shared was on target. Thank you. Made my night!
Absolutely spot-on HHO! What is hugely disappointing is to see the President’s supporters fall for the media’s unethical approach to reporting. For the media, It really doesn’t matter if Romney lied throughout the debate! What matters is that Romney was loud and aggressive and the so called moderator let him get away with violating the debate rules. The fact that President Obama was calm, substantive, truthful and Presidential means nothing to the media. At the same time if the President had been loud and aggressive, the media would have dusted off their angry black man meme to show how he is not fit to be President. Besides, the media was already angling to declare Romney the winner way before the debates.
Pundits are calling out Obama for not calling out Romney's lies, BUT NOT ROMNEY FOR THE LYING. #AELezDebate #Debate2012— Ali Davis (@Ali_Davis) October 04, 2012
spot on! RT a 1000 times if I could!
And that tweet, right there, shows the screwed-up nature of our politics and national dialogue. R/T’d.
If the President had called Romney a liar, which he is, the media would have come down on him like a ton of bricks, by accusing him of not being Presidential! Remember how Bob Scheiffer and his lady co-host (her name escapes me) reacted when Gingrich called Mitt Romney a liar. Just Imagine if that were President Obama who had called Romney a liar!
The President never resorts to name-calling, nath. He is a class act and I want him to be that way for ever.
I totally agree, Amk! President Obama is a man of integrity and decency. I am sure he will never trade those in just to be re-elected President. And that’s why I deeply respect him.
h/t to job above.
Obama lies today ? One – When he told Jim Lehrer he did a great job.— (@amk4obama) October 04, 2012
Vote in these polls. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/03/1139558/-Vote-on-who-won-the-debate
Obama was “weak” when he jettisoned the “public option” which would’ve helped very little in order to get a health care law that would help 10′s of millions people.
Obama was “weak” when he compromised in order to get a stimulus that saved or created millions of jobs.
Obama was “weak” when he negotiated to avert a government shutdown—and in effect got a second stimulus passed.
Obama was “weak” when he “caved” over the debt ceiling—and turned the conversation away from deficit reduction to growing the economy.
Man, any more weakness and he’ll end up on monuments.
like it LL!
I agree with @JeffersonObama: the material Romney provided tonight is OPEN SEASON for OFA ads…No need for a Juiced Up POTUS
Just reading his timeline, and I was thinking the same thing. Romney’s performance was manic. Highlight that in ads.
I figure a timeline of changes in Romney’s plans using the debate as the latest flip would be in order.
I do not think PBO is weak…he is very strong of will and character..but perception can be reality…and not giving Romney push back on the lies and distortions was a mistake..
Ok, I’m off to bed. I’ll leave you with Booman’s first take on the debate tonight. Booman always have great analysis and will tell truths without chicken-little everyting.
Have Another Thread
Old thread was full. My preliminary take is that the president did fine. Romney got away with saying too much crap without consequence, but as I noted yesterday, the male pundits like it when someone bullies the moderator and otherwise acts aggressively, but most women and many men don’t like that. I thought the president did very well for the first third of the debate when he was talking about taxes. I thought he did a good job of defending ObamaCare. Somewhere around the hour mark, he seemed to lose a little focus on one answer and he never really got back in full stride, although his closing argument was strong. I am going to take a look at the focus groups before I come to any strong conclusions about winners and losers tonight. Romney can certainly feel good that his only major gaffe was blurting out that he loves Big Bird. But if fact-checkers do their job overnight and tomorrow morning, Romney is going to get a lot of negative press coverage to go along with the stuff about how his held his own.
I have to agree with BOOman on this one.
I hope it happens that way but I’m very skeptical that MSM will report on lies by Romney.
already happening…once the emotion subsides bec. most people want 2 b entertained, you’ll be left with what was actually said (or not said). Print/Online Media already calling Romney out…
Romney Goes On Offense, Pays For It In First Wave Of Fact Checks n.pr/VxCfNu— NPR News (@nprnews) October 04, 2012
BooMan said so well what i felt watching a re-play of the debate. I suppose those who believe in the staged “cross-fire theatrics” loved Mitt Romney. For me, what I care about the most are substance and demeanor.
We know better than to listen to the media on a regular basis. Why would anyone choose to listen to anything they say now? Really? We spend hours a day here, slamming the inept, unprofessional, biased media, and now you choose to believe their BS? Not me. You know what they say about opinions…they’re like assholes. Everybody has one. That’s what I think of the talking heads
Last thing about the debate. I said before this even started that this debate wasn’t for us. It was for the tiny sliver of those undecided voters that still can be reached. Everyone sees things differently. I saw a President that stated facts when it was his turn to speak. A man that didn’t get too high or too low….in Romney, I saw a bull (shit) in a china store…running amok and trying very hard to talk over everyone, in every instance. A bulldozer. There was no truth to what he said, he just wanted to show his base that he could talk tough to a President…but there was no “there” there. Some people will be offended by that…some will shout for joy. Bottom line, I don’t think that any minds were changed and I don’t think that this format was the best way to showcase the differences in each candidate. I much prefer the town hall style format where the audience may be smaller, but it’s more intimate and the candidate can reach the audience….there is a much better level of sincerity there. I hope that one of those kinds of debates will happen. This is when PBO shines. And Mitt will not be able to hide. My take.
The town hall debate format will be the next, moderated by CNN’s Candy Crowley.
I hope Obama doesn’t have the same inflated feeling about this debate as you guys. Not to be rude, but if he does, I think he’s going to be in trouble. It’s important for him to play The Game or he is going to lose. You can’t just say, “well he was above it all…he looked presidential…he was on point…he didn’t get rattled…” that doesn’t matter if people who HAVEN’T YET MADE UP THEIR MIND think he lost the debate.
You’re all partisan. And that’s fine. But Obama did not have a great debate. You can point to ’08 and say, “well, they said the same things back then…” but you’d be wrong. The narrative was pretty clear in ’08: McCain did well, Obama did better and McCain couldn’t get the game-changer needed. Obama also led, as already mistakenly posted in this thread, in the CNN & CBS polls against McCain on who Americans thought won the debate … by margins Romney is winning now.
Maybe Romney didn’t get a game-changer, but it does no one any good to just pretend this debate didn’t at least change the narrative heading into the next week. That’s what Romney wanted and that’s what Romney got. If it happens again next week, Obama is in trouble. He still has time, of course, but he can’t come at this debate like he did tonight or Romney will walk all over him again.
Remember, more than anything, Obama isn’t debating FOR YOU. He’s not debating to Democrats and his supporters. He’s debating for those viewers out there who might vote Romney, might vote Obama … but haven’t decided yet. He’s debating for those voters out there who, a few weeks ago felt they would vote Romney, but then changed their vote to Obama a couple weeks ago and now might go change their vote for a third time. I know it’s easy to demean those voters, trash them, dismiss them, but they’re still voters and their vote still counts and they will be the ones who decide this election.
I hope Obama’s handlers are not saying the same thing you are all saying or he’s going to get smacked upside the head again next week (or whenever the 2nd debate is).
Hogwash. What ‘narrative change”? The one peddled by msm ? yeah, we have been seeing that ‘trickle down’ to the voters in the last few months and the polls reflect that, amirite?
That’s exactly who President Obama was appealing to, and I imagine he solidified their vote. No one likes that sweaty, blustery, bullying style in a president, as Romney displayed tonight. People are tired of all the rancor, all the anger, hate and dysfunction.
No one here has an “inflated feeling” about the debate. We are just aware that this debate was about something bigger than your and others’ desire to see PBO knee Willard in the balls. I’d take the advice up thread and have another pint on me. You can reimburse me on Jan 20, 2013 when PBO is being sworn in……. and I’ll be a lady and therefore wont say: “I told you so.”
what ? no, g&t ?
I frisking love you Lisa!!!!!
wrong on this one my friend. There was no reason to wrestle in the mud with that pig. The pig would have loved it and PBO would have just ended up with mud on his suit. Indies and undecideds are not too taken by attack dogs and unprofessional bullying.
Cookemom you are so right, voters riding the middle are wavering types. They are more sensitive than a thoroughbred Democrat or a Repub voter. They have to be coaxed with more logic and it takes them a while to come to any consensus of thoughts and ideas of their conviction. They are more difficult to be convinced of the facts.
How many times does Obama have to be Obama before the drama queens understand, he's gonna be him.— Sabrina (@Charmed86) October 04, 2012
Never, Sabrina! The “drama queens” will never understand the “No Drama” President Obama. Without drama, the “drama queens” have nothing to excite them.
Hello! Obama’s performance was an appeal to those very independent voters you believe to be important (because they are). Romney’s performance was an appeal to hard right supporters who still aren’t convinced Romney is on their side. Yet, somehow, Romney won because he chooses to rehash the same hard right nonsense that has turned off so many independent voters?
I only read your first paragraph. I’m sure the president will be more than able to assess his “performance” and reactions to Mitt in this debate. He managed somehow to put away a room full of contenders, he finally put away Hilary Clinton and the Clinton machine. He out distanced JM. Some of those debates were not called his way. In fact people said he was not that good a debater. He however is president. I’m not being cheeky, but this is one of 3 and while Mitt “held his own” with a little spit and sweat and lots of lies and artfull attack lies I’m sure the president will have the feel of Romney even better now.
I hope you do realize that the media is not our friend, nor are they into truth telling. That had thier narrative ” Romney, the comeback kid”, and we still have no clear plan from team romney/ryan.
Well Mr. Irishman, we can disagree and I disagree with you 100%. The pundits don’t have to tell me who won, it’s not a game. Listen to the candidates, see what they said, if they were truthful, that ought to matter.
I hope Obama doesn’t have the same deflated and depressing feelings about this debate as you! You have yet to show us what exactly Romney did, on substance, to merit a game change. All you are peddling is theatrics. I certainly would hate to be on the same team as you, because all you are doing is trying to depress us. I don’t know about any one else, but I am just as pumped up as before after watching this debate.
You need to sober up.
DId anybody else notice the smug look on Romney’s face all night? Or was it just me? The look on his face says I am going lynch this uppity negro.
All the pundits seems to say that Obama lost, he’s not a great debater. I hate this because, in the end, that no one can realize that Obama is a master class in Negro restraint.
I am tired of this shit. I am voting for Obama. That’s it. HE is my president. There is no way I am allowing Romney to lead. Not a chance in hell.
You can always tell who is ahead in a race because they don't need to attack in a debate.— Ari Melber (@AriMelber) October 04, 2012
ok, not quite asleep yet:
TPM Editor’s Blog
My Quick Read
Two things happened in this debate. Romney had the energy and focus, a long series of arguments packed and tight to dish out in the debate. He didn’t get distracted…
Romney’s focus though came at the cost of a few key things.
The Obama team isn’t going to try to get into a fight about whether their guy was on his game. There’s no point… What I fully expect, what they’ll do if they’re smart is go full court press on Romney’s numbers and press for details about his budget plan.
The numbers simply don’t add up. Over a few news cycles that can build up really fast. He says he’ll push massive upper income tax cuts and those have to come at the cost of much higher deficits or big tax hikes for middle income people. His campaign agenda is based on a massive deception.
That’s the vulnerability Romney brings out of this debate. And it may be bigger than people realize.
Two things happened in this debate. Romney had the energy and focus, a long series of arguments packed and tight to dish out in the debate. He didn’t get distracted…
Romney’s focus though came at the cost of a few key things.
The Obama team isn’t going to try to get into a fight about whether their guy was on his game. There’s no point… What I fully expect, what they’ll do if they’re smart is go full court press on Romney’s numbers and press for details about his budget plan.
The numbers simply don’t add up. Over a few news cycles that can build up really fast. He says he’ll push massive upper income tax cuts and those have to come at the cost of much higher deficits or big tax hikes for middle income people. His campaign agenda is based on a massive deception.
That’s the vulnerability Romney brings out of this debate. And it may be bigger than people realize.
THIS! That’s Rev. Al has been saying all night. He’s been rehearsing zingers and talking points for months.
Every time the man opens his mouth, he’s talking back on positions, taking on new ones, re-adopting old ones.
I couldn’t even listen to him speak. I felt agitated and nervous watching it, and I realized it was me having an
allergic reaction to Romney. Who is he to compare the president to his sons? Did anyone notice how he walked
back to the podium to collect God knows what, while the president and the first lady were still talking to his
family on stage?
Thanks, and I agree with TPM for once. The Obama team has killed Romney on actual facts since the summer, and that isn’t going to stop now.
This is the thing that I think is being overlooked. When the press euphoria wears off, the details of Romney’s plans are still a mess. The job is to illustrate this disjoint vividly and relentlessly.
Oh that’s my Josh Marshall. Have sometimes disagreed with him but when he gets it right….
If I am disappointed in anything tonight, it is that PBO didn’t let America know about this:
One of the major responsibilities of the president is the federal budget, which has two key parts: income and expenses. By signing away the ability to raise revenue, Romney will violate the oath a president must take to faithfully execute the office.
A large number of senators and representatives have signed this pledge. Surrendering much of their budget authority to a nonelected third party who is on record as despising the government these lawmakers were elected to serve should be an impeachable offense.
THIS is what I wanted him to say when he was talking about taxes and revenue. Bet most of America has NO IDEA….and it’s a BFD!
You don’t play your trump card too soon. There’s more to come, this was but the first debate. Gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, no when to run. You don’t count your money standing at the podium. There’s time enough for counting when all the debates are done.
Greatest. Country. Song. Ever.
Kenny’s that dude.
That sure was an interesting debate. Romney once again attempted to re-invent himself. However, the end result of tonight’s debate will be that Romney’s so-called “victory” cannot survive the fact checkers’ analysis tomorrow. It’s understandable that people wanted to hear the President refute the lies told by his opponent, but the President was more interested in giving the voter the opportunity to compare- and he will be shown to be the winner when voters decide who they can trust.
And the freak out continues. This is so hilarious. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Same BS, different day.
Exactly, UT! I am so disappointed with the freak out coming from our side; especially from people who should know better not to be caught in the mainstream (or should I say corporate) media games. I don’t know about every one else, but I knew all along that the media would hype this debate as a Romney win. The fact that Romney, as usual, lied throughout the debate means nothing to the media. It’s not the substance that matters it’s the theatrics.
Ali Davis @Ali_Davis
Pundits are calling out Obama for not calling out Romney’s lies, BUT NOT ROMNEY FOR THE LYING. #AELezDebate #Debate2012
Retweeted by Mariele Rennie-Mambu
This sums it up.
The greatest casualty of the evening: TRUTH. It just doesn’t seem to matter very much any more to the media. Sometimes I fear it does not mean very much to the public at large.
Gonna tweet this….
Exactly, Vicky! Sometimes I wonder if an aggressive candidate elevated his aggression by punching out his opponent, during a debate, if the media wouldn’t declare the puncher the winner. I am quite sure they would declare him the winner, regardless of the substance of the debate. I’ve been begging the people who said Romney won the debate to tell me exactly how Romney won on substance. Telling me that Romney was more aggressive and loud than the President, tells me absolutely nothing about his tax policies, his policies on Medicare, his policy on health insurance, and his policy on creating jobs.
Romney won? Really? Not for long.
After the first presidential debate at the University of Denver in Colorado on Wednesday night, one of Mitt Romney’s top advisers acknowledged that, as a result Romney’s plan to repeal Obamacare, people with pre-existing medical conditions would likely be unable to purchase insurance.
I know some of us would have liked a better performance from the president. Could it be that the president wanted to send a message to us supporters not to be complacent, not to think that this election is already in the bag?
I think this will serve as a build up. President Obama will decimate Romney in the coming debates. Let’s all just stay focused.
I feel sick. Literally sick. I love PBO but he was “off” tonight. I don’t know how else to say it. His demeanor, his speech, his tone, he just didn’t seem to be engaged.
HOWEVER, he is going to get a lot of love in Madison tomorrow! From thousands.
I sincerely hope you feel better Vicky.
Could be, but I can’t help but think it’s no coincidence, the GOP decided to bring attention to that old video the nigtht before the debate.
the old video was a positive video, nothing wrong with the speech.
Bluemoon, with all due respect, I totally disagree your premise that the President performed badly! I think the President performed very well. He just refused to engage in the shouting contest with a man who was spewing lies throughout the evening. Again, I challenge you. and all the President’;s critics, to show me where the President performed badly with regard to his policy positions. Likewise, I wish you could show me how Mitt Romney excelled with regard to his policy positions; and not just the ones he lied about.
I just had to delurk to say…..read Jefferson Obama’s timeline. We should understand how PBO works by now. It’s fascinating to watch. For his supporters, the ride is difficult and bumpy because we want instant gratification. I know a lot of us have to get stuff off our chests because it’s been brewing for awhile and Mitt’s lies are beyond the pale. But just hold tight through the twists and turns (as FLOTUS always tells us in her campaign speeches).
P.S. And part of what I forgot to add was included in bluemoon’s comment above…..there’s always that part of POTUS’ campaign where he appears to be against the ropes—-the 4th quarter.
yup, instant gratification. Nailed it. mcdonalds mentality. typical american affliction.
Amk, the other “American affliction” is the fetish of aggressiveness. If you ask all the people who are saying that Mitt Romney won the debate tonight their only answer is that he was aggressive. Notice that they say absolutely nothing about the validity of his policy positions. They are not even concerned about how many lies he told in his aggressiveness. All that matters is that he was more aggressive than the President, which by the way had a lot to do with the weak moderator who allowed him (Romney) to get away with violating the debate rules. What greatly saddened me tonight is to see some TOD members, I respect, joining in bashing the President for not acting like Romney.
Nath, this is why we went to war with Iraq. Aggression against a perceived inferior opponent. We like to fight with someone else’s sons and daughters.
Thank you Janelle. This was not President Obama’s finest performance, but it is nowhere near the apocalypse that pundits and others are proclaiming.
So, terim, what exactly was wrong with the President’s performance tonight? I am asking this question seriously because I’ve yet to read an honest analysis that is not based on the views of the biased media.
The pro left always runs from Obama when he doesn't do what THEY think he should. It's such a tired narrative.— Shoq Value (@Shoq) October 04, 2012
Hey, liberals, quit bitching and start fact-checking. Tomorrow this debate will be won on lost based on what you do now.— Martin Longman (@BooMan23) October 04, 2012
Exactly. Time spent criticizing PBO means LESS time focusing on Romney’s LIES.
Mitt Romney failed on the facts tonight. CNN's David Gergen: Romney was "sort of flat out lying." youtube.com/watch?v=xcwgDU…— Ben LaBolt (@BenLaBolt) October 04, 2012
There you go. Now the after’math’ begins. The fucker’s lies will be opened up and ripped apart.
I did not watch the debate because I knew what the outcome was going to be. We’ve all seen it headed this way for weeks. Take a blustery liar and allow that same liar to sound off “in front of” the President of the United States, who happens to be a man of color- put that black man in his place, by golly! Great theater for the American bimbo audience. But TOD- come on folks, what happened to supporting our guy? Sounding like a bunch of whiny ass pouters- some morphing into emoprogs. Geez. Like my 33 year old son just said, Obama team will be picking out tasty morsels of untruth and bashing the shit out of the bloviator (not his words exactly….LOL). PBO just said last week that Romney was a good debater, but he PBO, wanted to let the American people know what his plans were- the truths and the difference between two ideas for the country. Ya wanna see bloodsport, find it elsewhere. Man up, y’all.
I truly love you. thanks so much.
Romney helped Team Obama so much tonight. They can run a plethora of ads based on his lies from the debate. He’s so stupid.
God Bless You!
And I’m stealing “American Bimbo audience”
I liked your words- exactly. Thank you, I hate these things, but even I know it’s hard to call out each lie when someone is lying pratically every time they open their mouthes. But great fodder for both ads and follow up debates. Hell, if things hold true Mr. etchasketch wil have changed his positions tommorrow.
What’s more the president did get extra time for answers too, but he did it with charm and respect. I think his interrepted 5 seconds turned into over 15.
Bravo, EDP4BHO! I actually forced my self to watch a re-play of the debate because I was working during the debate. If you get a chance watch the debate. For the life of me, I still don’t get why people are all freaking out. The President, as always, was calm, steady, forceful, informed, and Presidential. On the other hand Romney was erratically aggressive, unresponsive and told lies about his policies. The moderator allowed him to get away with lies and inappropriate aggressiveness. Yet the media, and some on this site, declared Romney the winner of the debate. May be I am too old, but there is no way the erratic, lying, Romney won tonight’s debate.
Mitt won the day. But watch ads that come from this debate for Mitt hoisted himself on new petards. The Obama camp shld be pleased.— John Dean (@JohnWDean) October 04, 2012
My big disappointment tonight? some of the people on this blog. I’ll try to be a lady and not point fingers at specific people, because the problem isn’t the people shoveling this concern trolling bullshit, the problem is just emblematic of the democratic party in general. they always find a way to cannibalize themselves, snatch defeat out of the jaws of defeat. My advice, take a good long look at yourselves, the president, his priorities and goals and decide if your freak out is warranted. If you feel like a loser tonight after the debates, i contend that as much as you claim to understand the president, maybe you just don’t understand as much as you should. it’s not about the skirmishes, it’s about winning the war. it’s about the long game. PBO didn’t go to the debate tonight to knee Willard in the balls, he went with an agenda: draw a contrast between two people, present his message, and leave that stage undiminished. It’s my contention he did what he set out to do. if you disagree, that’s your problem.
I love you back
“snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory”
— was too pissed to realize the error.
Your commentary is spot on Lisa. Pres. Obama is always about the long game and considering how early his ground game began and how strong it is, I am not worried. Our guy is going to win this election.
Everyone, including his avid supporters, want Obama to pull the vengeful ninja act every time. Not.Gonna.Happen.
I would say President Kery and President Gore won their first debates…Oh well nevermind. President Obama has enough material to make so many new ads with Mitt in his own words tonight vs Mitt just last week for that matter. He will have more material for stump speeches in swing states. I have seen the 47% ad about 3 times since the debate has gone off on my TV. I truly believe he is leaving the attacking for Joe Biden and he is staying above the fray. He laid out specifics and Mitt was just his normal secretive self as PBO pointed out. Pundits are not GOTV or organizing, or making phone calls. We are. I truly believe PBO was just laying low to see how Mitt was going to handle himself. I think it is the Rope-a-dope but I could be wrong. At some point MItt will have to be fact checked and “indicted” in the words of Al Sharpton. If I was not an Obama supporter I can not name one specific that Mitt gave that would make me be more interested in him as a candidate. Anybody who promises to end subsidies for PBS/Big Bird and keeps bringing up Solydra is still trying to shore up support for their base. In my opinion he is in trouble because he tried to appease his base on one hand, but then he walked away from policies he supported last week. This is not a winning strategy.
I’m not that polite. I’m sick of certain people coming around whenever they get a whiff of something to criticize and doing their best to concern-troll and bring the entire blog down, yet being entirely MIA when things are going well. As someone who followed one of those types originally from the GOS, I’m sick of the shit. I appreciate that you know where NOT to go with that stuff, too, because you know people won’t put up with that crap. People criticized the initial campaign strategy on Bain, and certain people insisted that PBO should illegally leak Mitt’s tax returns to get ahead. To this day I don’t know why *you* can’t accept that President Obama is who he is. That’s just it.
I stopped posting her nearly as much because I got sick of the reactionary stuff and pretend campaign strategists. That’s why I left GOS in the first place.
Yep, this place gets flooded with would be campaign strategist, never mind you’re supporting a man who was the first president of the Harvard law review, and NOW the POTUS, he clearly does not know what he’s doing and needs every amatuer blogger’s help out there to put away Mr. 1%, who had a good night by not tripping over his lying tongue. Though come to think of it he has, and all those lies are going to catch up with him in the next few days.
i remember when the prez went to that evangelical church back in 2008. It was after his vaca in Hawaii. He was a little off in his responses to that contraversal (sp) minister that prayed at the president’s innaguaration. He answered the questions truthfully on abortion, and gay marriage ( belief in civil unions at the time). Did he get some votes, probably a few, I know he asked for their vote and respectfully disagreed with some of their views.
I’m always worried, but I ain’t worried, if you know what I mean. Darn Ida preferred in R fell on his face, but proved to be a master liar tonight, tinged with the sweat of desparation. One down 2 to go and still a long game plan. Great ads to come! Goodnight!
Lisa I agree, we have a choice about how we react to events. Being disappointed and freaked out is exhausting and pointless. I truly believe some folks here, do not consider the consequences of the negative comments that are brought to this blog. All of us read those words and have to deal with them.
The comments made by PBO resonated with me, I am proud of his performance, I think he has done a lot to convince folks who don’t know either candidate, that he cares about them.
We were not trying to “win” the debate, we were trying to win votes from undecideds, those who watched learned a great deal about the specifics of the Presidents achievements and the vagueness of Romneys policies.
Tomorrow we need dozens of fact filled tweets from Bobfr and others.
Tomorrow we pressure the media to report the facts.
And finally tomorrow we decide what type of posts we choose to make at this blog. Will they help us grow stronger as a community and give us tools to fight for the President’s election, or will they make things worse?
Off to bed now.
as always, you are gracious and spot on WiW! thanks so much for all you do.
Thank you Lisa. I agree that he presented his accomplishments and plans well while pointing out the lack of arithmetic and commonsensical. In this unsettled world, with the economy rebounding and Middle East on razor’s edge, I think Americans will go with the known competence and cool of our president. Mitt just looks frenzied and his history of tax avoidance and disdain for half of America continue to turn people off. Not to mention the anti-women, anti-Latino, anti-LGBT, anti-middle class policies and record. I trust our team.
“PBO didn’t go to the debate tonight to knee Willard in the balls, he went with an agenda: draw a contrast between two people, present his message, and leave that stage undiminished.”
So true Lisa. I feel disappointed in the panic of some of our strongest supporters of PBO on this blog that they give in and forget who PBO is.
Lisa, I agree with you 100%! I was really taken back by the reaction to tonight’s debate by of some of the people that I greatly respect. Even if they were not impressed with the President’s performance there was absolutely no justification for spreading the doom and groom. As I suggested to one of the TOD members, I would hate to have team mates, on a football team, who threw in the towel, and started blaming the quarterback, just because the opposing team was the first to score. By the way, I want to be clear: I think President Obama won tonight’s debate on substance. Obviously, the unethical tabloid media gave it to Romney, purely on theatrics. Sadly, some TOD members bought into the media meme.
How about this one? Could anything be truer and telling?
The people screaming the most for POTUS to be everything at all times are the same ones who haven't had his back for 4 years -> @edshow #tfy— ExtremeLiberal (Jim) (@ExtremeLiberal) October 04, 2012
so fricking true! And I heard that Al Gore threw in his two cents. Al Fucking Gore of all people!!! Oy!
Al Gore of the last couple of years gives me the creeps.
and it’s likely not only because he looks like a fatass version of Bela Lugosi.
Who strangely has been missing as any surrogate this campaign season. I’m going to bed. Sweet dreams of PBO, everybody
I’ll say one thing about Al Gore. Although I think he actually won in 2000, that’s not what happened in the history books. So, just as I’d say to John McCain, a loser giving advice to a winner like President Obama can STFU.
I will add that John Kerry may have lost in 2004 in the history books, but HE IS NO LOSER. He’s involved in debate preps with the President, and is supporting him all the way. That’s the kind of person I’ll listen to, in the future, not Al Gore.
Amen. Props to Kerry, i was being factually accurate when i said he was the last losing democratic presidential candidate as I made the mistake of saying Gore was. Either way, Gore is the last to talk because unwittingly or not, he’s a running joke.
Indeed! The same who employs the likes of Cenk Uygur
Mitt Romney failed on the facts tonight. CNN's David Gergen: Romney was "sort of flat out lying." youtube.com/watch?v=xcwgDU…— Steve Walker (@stevenlwalker) October 04, 2012
There ya go!
@stevenlwalker Mitt's behavior tonight PROVES his wife's gravest fear. If elected, his MENTAL WELL-BEING is beyond doubt, UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
This is what I saw, repeating from up thread:
I really feel all are reading this wrong and PBO came out & let Mitt expose himself. Watch how the pundits will change their tune. Mitt’s team was waiting for PBO to go after the 47% etc. Why not allow him to show his disdain of the 47%. Did any of you see how he effed-up Mitt’s closing statement? Mitt-Dood babbled bully-crazy through the whole thing, then went batshit in his closing statement. It was a thing of beauty! Was I watching the same thing?
Think I’ll watch that part when I have time. PBO is grace under fire, and someone used to tell me- never display all your talents until it’s necessary. I’ll let PBO decide when that time is, not an emotion-filled public. Not only that, why argue with a fool, which only makes one a bigger fool?
Effer lied with absolute resolute, then twitched his way to when PBO demolsshed his ending statement (dear god let it be so), then twitched his way thru his robot statement.
Photo: tmblr.co/ZLd_RwUcQd_q— Eric Ferguson (@RYouaTwit) October 04, 2012
Romney's whole act tonight was to keep the cable pundits engaged. Some of you may not believe it now but he dug a deeper hole for himself— Ken (@Kennymack1971) October 04, 2012
I totally agree with this.
I would like to be reassured that there is enough clear headedness here not to take your reality from beltway boyz and their incessant horse race game. Is this a site devoted to supporting our President or not? Mitt Romney just played the ultimate etchasketch gambit and tomorrow a lot of fact checking is going to take place, and a lot of push back from his tea bagger supporters who are not going to be happy that he is declaring tax breaks for the wealthy to be dead along with the rest of his platform that he has thrown under the bus, at least for the duration of the debate. And he has now publicly embraced vouchers, so the let the Ads begin on vouchers.
thanks Bill R. This shit is not for the faint of heart.
Yep, the gloom and doom and hand wringing has got to go. Why watch the pundits if it’s going to get your drawers all in a knot? Even more so, why bring it here? If folks get a perverse pleasure out of suffering the fools on the TV, then why, oh why, must the rest of us suffer too? This is not just tonight, or for the aftermath of the debate, it’s ongoing and tiresome.
I know right!~!! that’s what really got me pissed! Why the fuck would they bring that shit here?! If they want to wallow in their self-imposed misery, don’t bring it here cause no one wants to hear it. I certainly don’t.
Exactly! I am glad I watched a re-play from C-Span with no pundit interruptions.
A clear voice of reason. I am proud of President Obama. He came to a debate with serious intentions. He was confronted with a sheister, a liar, and a bully. He was thwarted by an incompetent moderator. And he’s got an electorate – half of whom are fickle and feckless – who are dazzled by shiny objects. It still remains that the media was planning to declare Romney the winner from the beginning – so why waste your good performance on an outcome that’s already been determined? It also still remains that President Obama needed to take the measure of the man. And now he has.
Well said, Bill R.
The LAT is already fact-checking Romney’s BS. Poooof.
Sorry, I’m a little confused. Was there any CNN poll from tonight that said PBO won? I know a 2008 poll was mistakenly posted but what about tonight?
So lamh35 was wrong. Thanks lamh35 for everything.
Whoa is right gobrooklyn. I get that tensions are high right now, so I’m just gonna do like Jay-Z said and “brush my shoulders” off. Have a good night.
anniebella, I got that information from somewhere else and I usually try to link what I find. I realized the mistake after I posted, but as you know we can’t edit our comments here. And I believe Chips has already left the building.
It is the first time I have done that in a comment on this blog I believe. that is NOT the case with other posters who have also said things in error in the past.
So excuse me for being wrong. I wasn’t he first and I won’t be the last.
doesn’t matter. makes no difference. get to your nearest ofa office tomorrow, donate, or do whatever you can tomorrow with ACTIONS to ensure president obama has a democratic house and senate. thats all that matters now.
The CNN poll was from 2008, but the focus group of undecided voters had PBO ahead 53/47. CNN’s on line poll had Romney at winning by over 60%.
Thanks, that’s what I thought, there were two different polls.
Sorry, CaliCat as I said below, I did get that information wrong, but if you read my complete post, it still stands.
Sorry if there was any confusion. I usually link to stuff like that, but I went on information I picked up and didn’t verify it. That was my bad. But as I said, I’m not the first person on this blog to have posted information in error and I certainly won’t be the last. Sorry for the confusion
So, what I do is write. It’s what I do best. It’s the one gift which the Universe has bestowed upon me.
What did I see tonight? What I always see when watching Barack Obama. Someone who doesn’t blindly follow his gut like the previous President.
Remember the quote from Newt Gingrich about Romney? “How can you debate someone who lies about everything?”
Obama knew this about Romney. He knew that Romney would get on that podium, lie and filibuster and bully. “I paid for this microphone, Mr. Lehrer,” to paraphrase the Gipper.
And he knew that you can’t really debate someone like that.
Romney is an entitled prince. Again, tonight, he proved that the believes the rules don’t apply to him. And that type of person has the ability to bend those of weaker will to his point of view. I was sorely disappointed in Mr. Lehrer being cowed by the bully.
But, again, tonight, Mitt Romney showed the country just what kind of person he is. Entitled. Prickly. Without a moral compass. Willing to jettison any “belief” to gain a momentary win.
And if this was a win—which I don’t believe it was, but more on that below—it will be just that, momentary.
As you all know, I’m something of an English football addict. English football has two cup competitions. One, the FA Cup, is an old, honored tradition, the oldest cup competition in world football. The other, the League Cup, is, well, not. When teams play in the League Cup, they don’t often field their best teams. The ones who do are the ones for whom the competition is their only shot at winning any silverware.
Mitt Romney just “won” the League Cup. It’s a shiny trophy which, in the end, means very little.
But, did he win? From my perusal of websites and Twitter, the fact checking is already beginning.
Back to Newt Gingrich’s observation: “How can you debate someone who lies about everything?”
Well, you don’t. You can’t. At least not at first.
If I’m right, this was a strategic feint by the Obama campaign. Let Mitt talk. Let him talk and talk. They had a very good idea of what he’d do—he was basically broadcasting it. He would be the same bullying, entitled rich man that he was in the GOP debates. And he would lie, about everything.
But Obama has a few things which Mitt’s Republican opponents did not have. First, he has money. Gobs of it. According to a Chicago Tribune story, he is, in fact, on his way to being a “billion dollar candidate”. And with this gob of money one can make a lot of ads dissecting quotes from the first debate, in which Obama allowed his opponent to basically paint himself into a corner. And one can buy a lot of air time with that money. The ads are already being written and produced.
The other thing that Obama has which Mitt’s GOP opponents did not is, well, intelligence. He knows both strategy and tactics. How do you debate someone who has no compunction about lying? You don’t. That’s why this debate was different than the ones against McCain in 2008. McCain could not even think of reaching the depths of falsehood which Romney plumbs on a regular basis. Those debates were basically what debates should be. Mitt is a different creature. He has a preternatural will to power, and nothing will stand in the way of it—not morality, not decency, not kindness, not human empathy. How do you debate someone like that? You don’t. You let him debate himself. You let him spin out words of desperation, as he contorts himself into the shape he thinks will get him the prize. And then you strike. That requires intelligence and patience, and a propensity not to panic. All of those are traits which Obama has in abundance.
Mitt may have won the night. But the next few days won’t be kind to him, as the euphoria of him not vomiting on stage wears off, and Chicago starts pushing out ads highlighting Mitt’s mendacity in his own words. Tonight Mitt basically threw everything he had campaigned on overboard, in a manic attempt to appeal to the middle. His base may be momentarily pleased that he put the black guy in his place; but in the sober light of morning, they’ll realize that he has cemented his perception as a liar, willing to—at least rhetorically—dismiss their beliefs. And it’s only rhetoric, as the ads will show.
I could be wrong. I’d like to think I haven’t slid into epistemic closure. But I also know not to bet against Obama. Those who do have always lost.
I was not able to watch live. I caught a replay. I agree with you. Obama looked at times like a patient – and under the surface, burning – professor looking at the worst of specimens. Hating it but patiently observing up close and collecting data. As for Romney, lots and lots of words going on there, and boy oh boy was he pleased with himself. But like you said, we’ll see how long that lasts.
You’re bloody awesome LL.
It’ll be on TPV tomorrow. The troops need rallying.
Yes, apparently they do.
“The troops need rallying.”
Yes they do! They especially could use a thoughtful person who deeply grounded in history and can relate it to our current affairs.
It’s late! I meant to say “who IS deeply grounded in history….”
Goodness LL, you articulated what I could not. I’ve always been fascinated with PBO’s ability and patience to seemingly “lose” a 24 hr. news cycle in favor of the strong long-term strategy. As the debate went on, I was thinking this in the back of my mind the whole time. IMO, you’re spot on.
Fantastic comment LL. This needs to be front-paged. I agree that Romney’s canned recital of LIES tonight was just fodder for Obama ads that will be released later this week and next week. The pundiots who were so darn impressed by Romney tonight will be eating their words by next week.
One of the things I really enjoy about you is your well-reasoned reflections in times like these. I agree with all your points because they are fluid and real while the MSM is so heavily invested in creating episodic fault lines that are fabricated to perpetuate their unfettered addiction to drama. What Mitt did tonight was tighten the coil and it will soon be coming back to snap at him.
I’ve been saying, for quite a while now, that Obama’s goal is to break the fever of conservative dominance. Stef Cutter confirmed that last week. I think a few on our side are so upset because they see PBO as solely a wonderful human being, without seeing the other part of what he is: the country’s first black President. He always has to tread that line carefully. Angry Obama doesn’t win anything. Calm Obama is on his way to re-election.
Great point LL. PBO is a sitting President and has to remain above the fray. Angry black guy (which the GOP/MSM was trying to invoke fears of by “finding” that 2007 video of PBO speaking at Hampton) will scare away Independent voters. Mitt lied and flipflopped all night. Any “victory” Mitt had during the debate will be pyritic in nature. The fact checking has already begun. Voters already view him as dishonest and once all his lies during the debate are dissected, it won’t be pretty for Mitt.
“Angry Obama doesn’t win anything. Calm Obama is on his way to re-election.”
This is the absolute TRUTH! This what well meaning people who are not well versed in the complexity of race in America fail to take into account.” The moment Obama goes all aggressive on Romney, by truthfully pointing out that Romney is a habitual liar, would be the moment that the media dusts off its meme of Obama as an angry black man. I think that’s why the right wingers released the Hampton tape, just in case the President decided to aggressively confront Romney. It seems to me that all people of color are still subject to what W.E.B. DuBois called the “Double Consciousness.”
Bravo, LL!!!!!! You are spot on. President Obama could not win this round. The media had already decided it. He needed to let Mitt expose himself, give him ammunition for 30 days worth of ads, and for President Obama to seize the “underdog” title from Mitt. Mitt won’t know what hits him when it comes. I keep telling my sisters that they should remember that President Obama has Mohamed Ali’s pictures up in his private office. Mohamed Ali let his opponents defeat themselves – then he would knock them out.
Romney had a chance to be a serious candidate today, and he chose not to rise to the occasion. He’s going to live to regret it.
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this LL.
a comment that MsChips wrote a comment earlier….about not underestimating the President…
and your piece here esp..“How can you debate someone who lies about everything?”
You don’t. You let him debate himself. You let him spin out words of desperation, as he contorts himself into the shape he thinks will get him the prize. And then you strike.
Pearls of wisdom…
i look forward to the next few days…..
the thing is that American politics have devolved ever since Reagan took office. He promised streets of gold achieved with no pain, and every candidate up until PBO has played the same game. The electorate isn’t used to someone like Obama; his like hasn’t been seen in these parts in a long time. The country needs fixing, and he’s slowly getting us to realize what needs to be done. He really is getting the fever to break, and his methods may be counterintuitive to what we’ve been propagandized to believe for the past 30 years. But yes, definitely underestimate Barack Obama at your peril. Mitt did that again tonight.
BRAVO LL. Not gonna wait until you post this at TPV, I’m sending it RIGHT NOW. PREACH!
Maher said that the President should have used his Tele prompter.
Well, I will not be watching Him this Friday night.
I’m surprised he’s not asking for his money back……… wonders never cease.
I detest Bill Maher. If he’s so right all the time, then (as Ann says) why doesn’t he get in the ring? He’s a loser. A coward.
Why was Lehrer so bad tonight…he has been a moderator 12 times in the past….i’m not understanding this
I don’t think he was prepared for Mitt’s bullying. I believe Lehrer sincerely thought he was going to be moderating a debate between two adults. Instead he got Pres. Obama and a craven, scumbag, petty tantrum throwing cretin named Mitt Romney.
I was frustrated at Lehrer sometimes and thought he could be stronger, but despite that, Pres. Obama more than held his own.
I agree and got really po’d at times. Then I had to stop and rethink it. He’s a well respected and a good journalist. He was prepared to be professional and was taken aback that Mitt showed up like the bully he is. Jim got the crowd to behave, but had no clue that he needed to make Mitt behave as well. I just hope Jim doesn’t have this to be what he ends up being know for.
i think you’re giving him too much credit. I notice on Cspan that he wasted no time, running up to Willard and shaking his hands and talking. Perhaps i was distracted and missed him doing the same for PBO?
I thought PBO left pretty quickly, not sure though. I’d still hate for this to be his shining moment.
seriously? he was really bad. and when PBO looked to JL to do his job? Jim was useless. Jim let WIllard talk into PBO’s time and then Jim started to remember that his job was to moderate, but would only try to cut into PBO’s time. after a while, PBO began to ignore him too and just pressed his message. Jim was absolutely useless. it was like he wasn’t even there…….. that is, until after the debate when he went to kiss Willard’s ring.
yep really. Actually according to CSPAN there was a clock on the debate and PBO got a slight more amount of time overall. I think it’s because he talks slower and more decisive, while Mitt talked very fast and never came up for air. so all things considered, though Lerher was not good at all. I still don’t want to see him go out with this as his best known job as a journalist. We can agree to disagree though cause no matter how he leaves the stage, Lehrer will be just fine, no matter his political leanings. g’nite got a long day ahead tomorrow..
#1. It’s his anniversary. #2. How much can we expect one man to take when he’s had to listen to a psychopath lie about him, after he’s had to endure lies about his policies, his character and his birthplace from the same creature.
Lisa, he went to PBO first.
okay then, i guess i missed it.
UT, I am not prone to conspiracy theories but there is something I just can’t get over. How come Chris Christie and most of the Media Pundits were predicting that this debate would be a game changer? To be honest, I was extremely puzzled by Jim Lehrer tonight. He is, as most people would attest, a real impartial journalist. But tonight he allowed Mitt Romney to run all over him. Could it be that he was afraid to anger the right wingers by insisting that Romney play by the rules? He certainly tended to be more forceful when it came to President Obama. By the way I have absolutely no confidence with the upcoming moderators. Both Candy Crawley and Bob Scheiffer are biased towards the GOP and Mitt Romney.
I actually do not think this debate format included the moderator fact checking the participants or calling them out on lies. I think the format was to give them time to each address the open questions given. The moderator was to ask the questions and see to the order and timing. I agree that Romney didn’t follow the rules. I seem to also remember a primary debate where Romney whined to the moderator that it wasn’t the other guys turn. I think he has practiced taking up Newt’s bully the refs act. I think Lehrer did let the debate timing be taken over by Romney, but he was not as bad as others could be or will be.
Actually, Romney’s bullying and not following rules can work in our favor in looking back on the debate. How does that reflect on Mitt’s character and temprement to be CIC? Could he get us into a war by this bullying attitude?
Still the perceptions of what a debate is whether it is like a boxing match or is more cerebral in that it is to convince and persuade someone to favor your ideas is in conflict with our members as well as the general population. I believe it is a head sport not an aggressive sport.
President Obama’s calmness demonstrated a leader with strong mental steadiness as opposed to the mental unsteadiness Mitt demonstrated in the debate. PBO’s mission waas to communicate his specific plan to the American people. Thus, if PBO had spent his time correcting the lies told by Mitt, then he would have not been able to share his plan to move the country forward with the people. Those who were looking for agression, the Mitt got the edge. However, those who were listening for specifics and the truth, PBO is the clear winner.
We must not standby while the MSM push their bs narrative just to keep Mitt in the game. We must push back forcefully and relentless via all forms of communication (i.e. phone, e-mail, twitter, facebook, etc). We got this>>
When all the noise stops we have a President to re-elect.
Donate, Register Voters, Phonebank and GOTV our early voters.
Well hidee GF! You’re right at the end of the day it’s all about GOTV. I’m watching th erebrodcast with #2 cause she was going nuts wit nerves and wanting PBO to Karate chop Mitts. She just said, I’m glad I watched this again cause now I see that I was listening to MItt being loud and more animated, not what he said. I see the Zen steady in PBO and it’s not as timid as I thought it was the first go round.” the first time she watched while tweeting and reading the over the top tweets. I recommend everyone rewatch it. Also as the rebroadcast is wrapping up, they will have open lines for folks to call in. The callers were excellent last hour.
Here’s a good place to get started:
I just donated.
Excellent liberal librerian! Thanks for sharing
Let the fact-checking begin…
BarackObama: Fact check: Romney's tax claims challenged by nonpartisan report. OFA.BO/MFE4E1 bit.ly/VxBOmi— Follow Obama (@TeamObama) October 04, 2012
@TeamObama @stefcutter Mitt's behavior tonight PROVES his wife's gravest fear. If elected, his MENTAL WELL-BEING is beyond doubt, UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
To buttress my point:
BOOM! Let the crushing begin.
@nprnews @NewsHour Mitt's behavior tonight PROVES his wife's gravest fear. If elected, his MENTAL WELL-BEING is beyond doubt, UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
But the pundits and others tells us that Romney was great, even though he lied. I guess the truth doesn’t matter. Does it.
The truth matters and that is why President Obama will be re-elected.
Yes, Mitt is unhinged, especially if he thinks, he can stick some of us with vouchers,while his crazy azz continues to get tax shelters, and tax cuts for all his cash. The damn nerve of this man!
i wouldn’t get to into the “fact check” game too much. in the long run they will, guaranteed, make their analysis be about equal for each side, no matter the reality of situation.
I don’t play those games
Yup! The AP Fact Checks was all about evening it out regardless of skipping some and distorting others.
Our role is not to allow them to get away with falsehoods! That’s why why we must seriously engage in fact checking. Otherwise, we allow the media to sell aggressiveness over truth about real policies.
and this. The Obama campaign collected data last night to hang him with.
@BarackObama @BenLaBolt Mitt's behavior tonight PROVES his wife's gravest fear. If elected, his MENTAL WELL-BEING is beyond doubt, UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
That is exactly wha I saw. He was a panicky, lying mess.
Will 9 GOP GOVS Electronically FLIP Romney into White House? freepress.org/departments/di…— Tally Briggs (@bardgal) October 04, 2012
I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. The GOP just got caught pulling an election fraud scheme here in Michigan, but they’re going to send out poll watchers for voter fraud. Sorry SOBs.
No one can watch totals flipping on a server where the votes are stored.
The only thing Democrats should be talking about is Romney’s lies. Every pundit. Every Obama supporter. Every thinking American.
The LATIMES fact checkers are calling Romney out on his lies right under an article on the front page giving the debate to Mitt – which is completely psycho.
No wonder people are checking out. It’s crazy!
useful tool tomorrow
Excellent – the only weapon is the truth. Thanks WiW!
The facts should matter more than anything else. And if this is what our country have come too, shame on this country. The fact that a man can get before the country and lie his head off, but because he had style, he won. I will always say the truth should matter, should count more than anything else.
THANKS so much for this. Excellent.
Linda, theo — yes, the TRUTH MATTERS!!!!
@chucktodd TRUTH matters bit.ly/PyqP6J Unhinged Mitt LIED repeatedly thereby confirming his wife's grave fear of his Mental Stability— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
As bad as everyone is saying POTUS was in the debate, I hope he and FLOTUS shared some nice time together in honor of their anniversary.
if anyone deserves it, he certainly does. can’t imagine what it was like having to share the stage with such a pathological liar! oy!! I hope Miche cocoa butters his sexy butt from here till eternity.
There are two competing memes going on right now -> 1) Romney won the debate because he was so presidential and in command; and 2) Romney lied throughout the debate. And when taken together – when people get around to trying to make this incoherence work – it will spell DANGER.
Anytime style out trumps the truth, what does that say for what the media have become?
Good night. Despite the pundits and know it all media. President Obama will live to fight another day. And so will I. I will always remain and fight for the truth. To hell with style.
president obama was not the only clear winner tonight – so was vp biden! lyin ryan and mittbot are so used to the media fluffing and being able to lie at will, that they will both have this false sense of confidence after the media fluffing tonight, and will crank up the crazy now. watch for it! these people are so dumb, they believe their own press and will double down on the stupid now. it’ll be hilarious to watch the slip-ups-galore in the next few days. i hope we can keep this false confidence in especially lyin ryan until the vp debate.
and must we go over this yet again? president obama had a photo of muhammad ali over his desk for years. a big reason why this is:
our president has proven he knows how to win with this strategy many times and in many contexts. when looking at this debate tonight, you must see such a clear example of the rope-a-dope. in hindsight and knowing this, president obama might’ve delivered his best debate performance yet, in my humble opinion. he’s toying with the republicans and the media at the same time. brilliant! forward!!
Yup – they were bad enough before, but Paul Ryan and Romney will now be reckless. They won’t be able to help themselves, because Republicans are all about short term gains. They don’t know anything about the long game.
I don’t think POTUS have any respect for those cable pundits, and the sorry ass media. I’m 100% with him.
I think you’re on to something, the President was quoted as saying that debate prep was a drag, and that Mitt was an excellent debater, while he, Obama was just ok. When I read that I thought, wow! he really is downplaying this upcoming debate……uh oh, played again.
I remember the lead up as well with PBO saying that he was “just ok” and FLOTUS saying “well, he’ll do fine”. He was downplaying the debate big time….can’t wait to hear the play-by-play of strategy after the election from Axelrod/Messina/Cutter/Plouffe. It should be quite interesting for the handwringers among us. LL’s comment is one of the best on this tonight, and I hope Chips gets to read it…..the million dollar question that Team Obama had to face in the first debate: How do you debate someone who lies about everything all the time and still get your agenda across in a detailed and specific manner in a limited period of time? Do you lower yourself that low and suck up all the time when you have the Independents’ attention and you’re ahead in the polls? Do you temporarily anger your base (whose votes you pretty much have) for a short period of time to reach some swing voters? Do you lay in wait, let Mitt talk and talk and talk and be patient during the debate for future ammunition for attack ads that are more powerful in swing states—further defining Romney’s lack of character and lies? Thanks again Liberal Librarian for the analysis. I hope it gets front page attention.
Just wanted to delurk for a moment…
One thing I have noticed about President Obama is the fact that he always bounces back no matter what the perceived conventional wisdom is. No matter what the pundits say, what bloggers say, or what his critics say. And he always bounces back better. He has something inside of him that doesn’t allow him to quit. Just get better. Look at his bio. Look at his successes. Look at his political career. That will tell you the story of this man better than anything anyone will tell you tonight. He is a black man name Barack Hussein Obama and he became President eight years removed from being a state senator.
Perspective. Always have perspective. I’m sure the press will say a lot of stuff and Romney will think he has the election in the bag and blah blah blah. But they don’t know who they are dealing with and they never have.
President Obama always comes back better. Always.
Another voice of reason.
However, I don’t think the President will be “coming back” from anywhere, because I think tonight turned out exactly how he intended. Media has a shiny toy. And he’s now the “underdog”. And Romney’s overconfident. My sister say it’s straight out of the book “The Art of War”. I agree.
Delurk more often. Your words are profound.
absolutely it’s sun tzu. you have a smart sister, which isn’t surprising considering how smart you are too!
Bingo. It’s easy to be reactionary as the pundits have trained so many to be, but Romney behaved the way PBO predicted he would. Romney and Ryan’s overconfidence will blow up of course….”The Art of War” indeed. Some of us on this blog need to read that book ASAP.
PBO wasn’t stellar tonight. I don’t know why. The Syria-Turkey skirmishes? Something personal? Some other issues that only he and his top aids are privy to? His total distaste for Romney? (which I share) I don’t know.
What I do know is how warmly, enthusiastically, and voluminously he is going to be welcomed in Madison tomorrow. The seriousness of tonight’s debate and the blitheness of Romney’s lies will motivate Obama supporters to go the second mile, and the third, and the forth, realizing NOTHING can be taken for granted and we absolutely cannot allow this soulless individual to get anywhere near the Presidency.
pickle48, There was nothing wrong with the President, nothing personal, or anything else. He tired to be respectful and answer the questions. Did we listen to what was said, or was we more concern with the style too.
There wasn’t anything wrong with POTUS. He leaned back and let Romney, who lies like breathing, do what he does best.
And now, Team Obama has a ton of material for their next battleground ads, not to mention Presidential debates 2 and 3.
Romney was a panicked, lying, contradictory mess. He talked over both POTUS and Leher, but said absolutely nothing of substance other than repeat the lies that have been debunked time and again. President Obama handed answered everything with facts, and made Romney look like the petulant lying toddler he is.
Everyone who actually listened to the words coming out of their mouths know this was a win for President Obama. Media spin won’t change that.
glad to see that my analysis is gaining some traction:
Yes, Romney was more aggressive and Obama wasn't engaged. But did Romney create other problems for himself? My column washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-di…— EJ Dionne (@EJDionne) October 04, 2012
Tonight it's clearer than ever: Mitt Romney is counting on Scott Brown to help him repeal Obamacare #AClearChoice #masen— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabethforma) October 04, 2012
yesssss!! oh yea, the democrats have a plan, baby! and they’re on point. i really like elizabeth warren more and more. definite 2016 presidential candidate. first female president?
That was pretty good wasn’t it? Genius.
I guess what I’ve learned for myself tonight is that in this divided political climate, along with the hatred and bigotry of some of our fellow citizens against President Obama for the last four years, if we as Democrats don’t bite the bullet and support this man 1000%, even if we don’t like his so-called “performance” every minute of those four years (I have, by the way, every bit of it), then we are the stupid ones, we are the fools, and we need our heads examined. Because the alternative will be Willard Mitt Romney, who is one of the least eligible presidential candidates in our country’s history, sitting in our President’s chair.
Wow – me likey those zeroes, but I’m too tired to count ‘em! Thanks.
Mitt Romney is the most vile creature to present himself on the national political stage. That he can lie while his family sits in the audience tells us everything we need to know.
I couldn’t agree with you more. And what we need right now is for people to step up in a tangible way. Donate, fundraise, phonebank, register people to vote, engage family and friends, get others to help and GOTV. There is not a moment to waste. If you believe in this man, our greatest President in modern history, then we must all act together in sync with each other and local OFA folks on the ground.
In other words, meta, it’s time to kick off the bedroom slippers, as PBO would say? Well, this 65-y/o political junkie, who’s been following presidential politics since she was in high school and watching JFK’s afternoon press conferences on a b&w TV, who never thought she’d run across anyone like PBO, the best President of my lifetime, agrees with you totally.
And I can report that in my little city in Illinois, all of a sudden Obama-Biden 2012 yard signs are sprouting all over, like people have been waiting to get closer to election day to put ‘em up, and that’s another real good sign, pun intended. Goodnight to ya!
Yup. Stop falling for the fucking optics. Looking at you bwd and chips especially.
Romney won this debate by seeming specific. Obama got some good ads out of what he got Romney to be specific about.— Ezra Klein (@ezraklein) October 04, 2012
Obama – 1; Romney – 0.
Think I’m gonna take a chill from all the media and this board for awhile. Was disheartening to see BWD act SO different than I remember,very depressing. Goodnight everyone!
Don’t take a break from this board. There are only 30+ days left. You have to stay engaged. As for the media – by all means, avoid them like the plague.
Jeff – Don’t leave TOD, please. Stay here with us and we’ll ride it through to victory, together. All hands on deck!
Hang in there with us, Jeff. Don’t let this tripe get to you. Republicans are counting on that. We need to support each other right now so please keep moving FORWARD!!
If I had a thimbleful of g&t every time bwd freaked out, I would be a dead drunk by now.
But what is not debatable is that she is a 100% PBO supporter just like Chips is. It’s just that they want their man to beat the shit out of thugs every time (which we all also secretly want) and set their expectations tad higher.
As theo says, this is not the time to quit. This is the only sane blog that does not bitch & moan about Obama every day.
So jeff, please keep yourself engaged here and elsewhere.
Please don’t let people like her get you down. Please just ignore it and continue to contribute. Perhaps if we ignore the nonsense more often, the people who spout it will realize those comments will not be tolerated and therefore stop infecting this blog with their emo bullshit.
No need to leave Jeff just scroll and roll. Scroll and Roll. It works! Peace!
After the bamboozlement hangover fades tomorrow, realization sinks in: Romney told an asston of lies.— Jordan Ashby (@JM_Ashby) October 04, 2012
@JM_Ashby Romney, without any doubt, WON! He is America's Lying, Bully Champion & also proved his wife's concern. He's UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
Just have to share a snapshot of comments from an article at LATIMES on debate:
Kelly Chou at 10:32 PM October 03, 2012
Romney said that the difference between his Massachusettes health plan and Obamacare was that his was passed by the majority of both parties, wheras Obamacare was passed only by Democrats.
Well deosn’t that tell the major difference of two parties: that Democrats are more willing to compromise than the Repulicans? I think if the Obamacare was relabled Romneycare without changing the content at all, bi-partician will be achieved.
To me this argument by Romney proves that republicans are extremists, they put party first and country second.
After all didn’t Rebulicans say that their only goal was to make sure Obama was a one term president?
tr0n70 at 10:30 PM October 03, 2012
Little Gray cells, Romney looked everywhere like a shifty kid caught with his hand in the candy jar. Obama just looked like he was sad to be talking to such a hack. I want to find a clip of Romney looking right, and left, and down, and incredulous, and outraged, and like obama broke his favorite toy, and then right and then down and then left and then up and back and forth. He looked like he was spooked, not like he was strong.
T-thaddeus at 10:30 PM October 03, 2012
Better off today than in 2008? Let’s see:
1. Gaining 100,000 jobs per month average, better than LOSING 700,00 per month – check.
2. Stock market gained from 6K to over 13K on Dow Jones Industrial Average – check.
3. Most deportations of criminals in history – check.
4. Out of Iraq and wrapping up Afghanistan – check.
5. Not in a Great Depression or a recession – check.
Yes, we ARE doing better. We can only lament how much better off we would be if the GOP behaved like adults and helped out versus obstructed at every opportunity…
That’s the problem with G.O.P. politics – everyone promising the world, when they can’t predict the future.
The GOP and the media have create their own reality. Thankfully, it’s the real reality that will decide this election.
Thanks, Tally! Gotta get Chips out of her funk because I believe she’s got the whole thing wrong. Can you help me here? Any TODers still up? Please, pretty please? Chips, if you’re still up, open a new thread so we can chat w/ you … this one is fuller than a shabeen on a Saturday night.
I was very happy with President Obama’s debate tonight.. That is all
Plz dont tell me what 'Obama should do', he KNOWS what he is doing! Hes ALWAYS steps ahead of media/American people. #DontYouKnowThisByNow??— (@NZObamaHobbit) October 04, 2012
Thanks for living in the reality-based community!
Short & Sweet. My kinda gal.
I still want to ad something. So fucking what if PBO lost tonight’s debate W. lost nearly every single debate yet still won the election. History has proven time and time again that presidential debates are not decided by debates! If this debate cost some independent voters for PBO which I doubt he still has plenty of time to make up for it. It is not the end of PBO, so calm down people!
i think president obama, and vp biden for that matter, won big-time. so did many others for reasons explained here and elsewhere. and yes, elections are won by ground game, and the democrats are absolutely CRUSHING republicans right now in ground game. forward!!
Meant presidential elections aren’t decided by debates.
PBO did not lose the debate. He did an excellent job. It was mittnocchio who got testy and lied like the sociopath he is. But even more importantly, mittnocchio actually MEMORIZED policy lines for a debate about policy. This is the same thing domestic terrorist sarah palin did for her debate. Why because she did not understand economic and social policy. seriously. it just shows the level of mittnocchio’s ignorance. The GOP ran an actor for president who too was taught to read his lines. of course he also turned out to have alzheimers.
I don’t think he lost either. But remember perception is reality.
I just checked HP and it has as it’s breaking news Romney is winner of debate.
Perception that if you lie in style you won. What has this country come too? Style matter more than the truth. So someone can stand before you you and lie the whole night, and because he did it well that is what matter. What are we teaching our kids? Thanks to the pundits and the media. I’m so glad Jesus Christ won’t go by that motto, when we all stand before him someday. What would Jesus say? Mitt you lied your behind off, but you did it in style, come on in. I don’t think so.
Yep, that nincompoop GWB won the election, even after he went to the debates with that little box taped to his back.
i missed the first part tonight, and just now watched the “big bird” comment. wtf?!?! mittbot’s going to get rid of big bird, which means kermit the frog too and elmo and all the others so many have either grown up with or had their kids grow up with?!? mr. hooper must be rolling over in his grave.
that was a big moment i think, and so was a moment when they cut to lehrer when mittbot was bullying and jim just gives a big sigh and leans back in his chair and shakes his head while looking down. those two moments really struck me and i think probably many viewers.
chips st all, I’m sorry if my comments about the CNN poll confused anyone. wasn’t my intent, I posted the numbers without verifying them. I stand behind the reminder of my comments though. even when/if Chips delete the portion about CNN my point is still valid
Not to worry lamh35.
In any event, the 2012 CNN snap poll is Bullshyte…
Oh, #CNN John King just admits their poll audience is "Slightly more Republican" #Douchebags— NAH (@mkttalker) October 04, 2012
Good grief, their idiot poll was done on land lines. GEEZE.
That CNN Snap poll, 50 plus all white Southerners. Already all in for Romney:
What was the name of the Obama advisor who said the media would be writing Mitt’s comeback.
David Plouffe, his 2008 campaign mastermind.
lamb – all is fine – Romney is the one who confuses – not PBO nor his supporters.
Looking back on the debate I see a Great President, a man who wants to put this country back on the right track for all. A man who has a clear direction to go to get us there. A man who was respectful of an elderly man who was to moderate this debate. And on top of that he has a mega watt smile, makes me smile back at him with full confidence he is the one we need to re-elect. Good night all, sleep well knowing PBO in the one.
LL, as usual I agree with much of what you said but have a little different take. First, I don’t think too many independents are going to be won over with Mitt’s bullying. And he most definitely crossed the line from aggressive to bullying. I thought PBO started strong and was good through the first half but was taken aback at the moment he realized that Mitt in fact was repudiating the entire platform he has campaigned on for the last 18 months. Can’t say that I blame him, who the hell would have the thought the one thing they knew about Mittens–20% across the board tax cut–would be thrown out tonight? I think it was the one thing the President was not prepared for and just became disgusted after that. That said, we all know that he truly is not the best debater, I don’t recall thinking he ever won any of the debates against Hillary, he merely held his own. I thought he won the debates against McCain but McCain was so bad that isn’t saying much. You can bet that there won’t be anything Mitt says from here on in that will surprise PBO. And I don’t see a President Hillary or a President Kerry soooooo….In the long run, I doubt this will change the polls much and the long term damage based on Mitt’s lies tonight may well leave PBO the ultimate winner. I am counting on the Chicago folks to be working all night to have several new ads out tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how Romney’s rich buddies react to his news that they won’t be getting a tax cut:-)
@MarkHalperin @maddow Romney, without any doubt, WON! He is America's Lying, Bully Champion & also proved his wife's concern. He's UNHINGED.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
and for the record, president obama got mittbot in his own words, and lehrer got a triple confirmation, to embrace medicare VOUCHERS. simple as that, and equals complete debate WIN FOR OBAMA.
Like I’ve said, repeatedly, to many, tonight ….
@chrisrockoz In summary, Jim Lehrer enabled Mitt to prove to the world he is a LIAR & a BULLY. #PBO provided facts & was Presidential.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
I was disappointed at the very beginning that PBO didn’t attack Mitt on why govt trickle down works (& billionaire trickle down doesn’t work) but for the next 30 minutes he won the tax argument and the medicare argument.
Mitt was loud and obnoxious and didn’t get called on it by PBO or the moderator – which is why it seems some folks think “he won”. His policies don’t win & he lies. I would think alot of people may well have stopped watching after the medicare “voucher” that truth was all they needed to know.
Bloomberg News: "Romney's tax plan can't add up." businessweek.com/news/2012-10-0…— (@Chernynkaya) October 04, 2012
Mitts been yammering about his new ideas since yesterday, especially about his new 20% tax cut.
Mitt Romney’s lie based strategy couldn’t measure up to Obama, and gave the president all the rope he needs to hang the Republican nominee.
This could be quite positive if Mitt “won” the debate. All the money men will pour their money into Mitt instead of the lower down races. That can only be good news for John McCain. (Keep an eye on Sen McCain – he does not want Romney to win).
#ObamaDebateExcuses ZERO. He allowed Romney the opportunity to be a statesman. Romney, instead, was a BULLY LIAR & it's ALL ON YOUTUBE.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
Time for some rest so I’ll leave you with this final tweet of the evening (and, yes, LL, We Are The Media We Have Been Awaiting!!!) …
@davidaxelrod Some may already have awakened in a damp sweat realizing that #PBO pulled back the curtain on Mitt & it's ALL on YouTube.— Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) October 04, 2012
Our masterful PBO shredded the curtain of lies & deceit behind which Unhinged Mitt has been hiding ….
Remember this: “I want a man who’s cool on the outside. But who burns for America on the inside.”
Yup – and we’ve got that man.
Guys, you all MUST read this blog post. She is awesome in her capture of the specifics in PBO’s debate material. And bookmark her blog because she is quite wonderful in other ways as well.
Just think all the ammo Romney handed to the prez tonight. Attack ads galore!
To use a sports anology, Mitt is the sprinter who wows the crowd but is later found guilty of using steroids. Lies are Mitt’s steroids and the fact checking will expose his cheating. Mitt’s “victory” will be short lived. We should not allow ourselves to become so discouraged at the first sign of trouble. Let’s see how this plays out. Sleep well my friends.
WE wanted PBO to take Romney down like he did to house republicans back in ’10. He chose not to; he had already said he was going to talk to the American people, and that is what he did.
Yes I wanted him to take Romney apart, but he chose not to. I don’t know why, but I know he is not a stupid man.
Mitt Romney was repulsive, repellant and repugnant. He did it all by himself.
Chris Matthews and Ed were worse than Romney. They really turned me off. No more MSNBC for awhile.
If the nation turns to Romney after that sideshow, then it was going to turn to him anyway. I hope we are not that stupid.
Yup – I’m staying off of MSNBC. IF they can’t figure out that it’s important to call out Mitt’s lies, rather than try and second guess the President and attempt o bring him down, then they can go rot in hell. I’ve got no time for that nonsense.
The only one who was not licking Romney’s ass was Rev. Al. He call Romney out for his lies, all the rest were talking about was style. I am going to say it till I can’t say it any more, telling the truth should be the first and only thing you judge anyone on. I am like the President now, the cable chatter, the tv pundits aren’t worth listening too.
I know Ed has been really adament about PBO needing to sign some kind of agreement with Congressional members who asked him not to touch Medicare. My thoughts on that is the POTUS should never sign any sort of agreement that ties him from making needed decisions. I trust he will do what is best for us that is why I have voted for him. Also if he did that what makes that different from Romney’s signing Norquest’s no new taxes pledge which Dems abhor? Ed seemed to hate that PBO did not make it clear in the Medicare segment that he would allow no changes in Medicare. Also Ed is into bullying and loud, crass behavior expecting PBO to punch back as if in a street brawl. I am not going to watch Ed and took his show off my Tivo.
Chris Matthews is as always wildly swinging from side to side on his support. He likes the Republican idea of vouchers for school choice. He went to private Catholic schools and cannot see the opposite point of view. He used many political surrogates to do mock debates prior to the debate representing both Romney and Obama and asked his own questions always including the school voucher question framing it like PBO you allow your own children to attend a private school why do you not support other Americans doing this too? Joan Walsh had a really good comeback and answer and he totally rejected it. He gets things in his mind and sticks with them. He can turn on a dime. I see the dangers of breaking into the education support of public schools to dole money out to private schools as weakening and eroding the public school system even further. I also see the danger of merging religion with government and not keeping them separated. I taught in public schools for 22 yrs. I knew lots of teachers in private schools trying to get into public schools. Their pay was pathetic and they had no benefits. Private schools ousted kids that gave them problems whereas the public schools could not. Private schools used many noncredited/certified teachers that either did not complete their schooling or did not keep up on the educational requirements. Many would use one with the needed certification and have them oversee the others to get by the requirements. All in all I think the magnet schools within the public school system is a better solution than private charter schools. I will not be watching Matthews either.
Just made the mistake of turning on the TV, and caught a few seconds of The Charlie Rose show, I have never seen Nora O’Donell so animated, and so elated. I had to do a double take to make sure it was her. She won’t be smiling for long though.
How do you do a random phone poll that is all white people 50 years and over – from Southern States. In the liberal/moderate conservative group the figures are 0% liberal. Either the poll figures are completely wrong or this is one very right wing poll.
The debate could have been between President Obama and a chair and Romney would win with those voters. CNN is one big joke
Too many people want to see fights like “Real Housewives of New Jersey”. In reality, the country wants smooth and cool Don Draper from “Mad Men”. Guess who is Mittens and who is PBO?
Absolutely!!! I was just thinking that!
As I said a few days ago to Pamela, I didn’t think I could watch the debate without punching out my TV… computer monitor… laptop… smartphone. CANNOT STAND WILLTARD ROBME! I gave in and watched PBO and muted the vulture. Talked to my sister who does not keep up with politics as much and she could not believe how much of an idiot Robme was and how rude JL was when he kept interrupting PBO multiple times before he could finish his sentences. If I didn’t respect JL so much previously I would have thought he was working for the Repukes. Sis is one of those voters who doesn’t pay attention until the last minute… not even involved most of the time… and she wanted to throw something at her TV.
On PBO’s debate performance I have three comments. 1) You cannot counterpunch unless you allow your opponent to throw the first punch. 2) PBO and his team know what they’re doing and they are in it for the long game. 3) I’ve never run any campaign let alone a successful one, so I implicitly trust Team Obama to do what they do.
Oh, one more comment…
Our stealth drone Harry Reid is still in the wings with the Robme tax return trump waiting for the right time to divulge more info… so I’m a happy camper
Goodnight, everyone! Tomorrow’s another day and I, for one, feel elated that Romney made so many unforced errors.
Y'all need to chill. .@BarackObama knows what he's doing! via: facebook.com/photo.php?fbid… http://t.co/qDeLJqOX— (@rchakras) October 04, 2012
Hi Everyone…whoever is still up, perhaps we may go to the post before this one to continue as this thread may be challenging to some…I’ll post what I wanted to write anyhow below and again in previous post “The Debate, Part 3″
Best way to review this debate is to read the actual transcript. When you don’t have the visuals to sway you of a ‘false’ win, there was an incredible amount of substance from PBO along with daming confirmations by Romney, which will hurt him.
Thanks for this Berny!
Thanks to all who posted Tweets here tonight, retweeted all of them. I don’t know about y’all but I’m gonna be phonebanking like a mofo tomorrow (err today!) Inhale, exhale WOOSAH. Primal scream; do whatever you gotta do to shake off the malaise and get back in the game. 32 days left and we got work to do TOGETHER! FOCUS Peeps and Let’s get it done! #FORWARD
I love your enthusiasm. Keep up the great work
I simply couldn’t be prouder of my husband tonight. –mo— Michelle Obama (@MichelleObama) October 04, 2012
I’m with you FLOTUS 100%.
No, FLOTUS 1000%.
One of the big follow up stories to this #debate will be Romney's role in trying to undermine education in MA. We said no to Mitt. It worked— Joseph A. Curtatone (@JoeCurtatone) October 04, 2012
One of the thing which ought to matter to any journalists with any credibility is what did the two candidate say? But we know when we listen to the folks like Ed, Rachel, CNN, ABC,CBS, the truth doesn’t matter.
Etch-A-Sketch debate notwithstanding, this is your real @mittromney. http://t.co/CcvE7Pty— (@amk4obama) October 04, 2012
This NEEDS to be pointed out. CNN's #Debate "Polling" Tracks Only Pre-Segregation South Demo: thepeoplesview.net/2012/10/cnns-d… #MediaFAIL— The People's View (@thepeoplesview) October 04, 2012
Ah yes, Chris Cristie on MSNBainC!
Maddow: No Winner In This Debate, But There Is A Loser — Jim Lehrer bit.ly/Py3gLf— DenisCampbell (@UKProgressive) October 04, 2012
Yep. Media only accountable 2 their corp owners. This election will also be a referendum on their total lack of impartiality & journalism— Berny (@bernyp) October 04, 2012
Romney flip flops on taxes, lies about own healthcare plan, threatens to fire guy who moderated #Debate2012 & Big Bird & he won? #sickworld— Exavier Pope (@exavierpope) October 04, 2012
They are not fact checking, to bust sucking Willards Stick.
I think Willard should Stop saying the Media Hates Him, MSNBainC is disgusting.
Also, Ed Shultz confirmed he loves Bernie Sanders and Nader.
That is all!
CNN has been doing some fact checking on air and on line. In the 4 areas of job creation, green energy, oil and gas production and yes the Donald Trump small business claim Mitt comes up short.
Priorities USA focus group unswayed by Rombeys performance-
Wow, what a night!! It amazes me how folks keep projecting on PBO. Its not that he ‘cant be an angry Black man’. He isn’t an Angry Black man. This media mess (PL) and some on this thread, is so disappointing. But, that is what I get for expecting a different result. IMO, the media is the main reason we have low information voters. They, themselves are low information voters. The media are like dogs, straight up savages and many allow that to dictate how they react. Its so sad and disappointing. Rev Al and Martin Bashir will be ok. I never really cared much for Tweety, Ed or Rachel shows.
I have unfollowed a lot of folks last night. Sorry, if its anyone here. Grow up folks, this isn’t a ‘reality show’. There a lots of folks out of work, suffering. The republicans will do even more damage if the republicans control all three branches of government. Mitt lied outright and PBO lost! Are you f______ serious? We have too much to do then to listen to supposedly ‘adults’ act like children. I think I will take a break in both cases and especially MSNBC.
Totally! That is what was disappointing, the so called Obama supporters trashing the President, because they wanted blood!
The biggest News last night, was how some of the Presidents supporters Freaked out!
Including all of MSNBainC.
That channel has been bought and paid for by Comcast.
It is Not an Obama channel, as Fox news describes it. It is anti everything, very cynical, almost like the Jon Stewart Show.
I have always said that its Obama vs The media not the republicans( the media make them look good), but most here focus on the republican. No news media is an Obama supporter.
Dial groups from debate show support for Obama's quieter approach: prioritiesusaaction.org/blog/2012-10-r… (via @Priorities2012)— Hilary Rosen (@hilaryr) October 04, 2012
A total of 132,104 ballots have been returned in all states and localities for which I have statistics.
CALIFORNIA reports 512 ballots cast as of Tuesday evening (only 11 counties reporting, excludes LA and other large counties)
IOWA reports 69,420 ballots cast as of Wednesday morning.
MAINE reports 48 returned ballots as of Monday morning.
NORTH CAROLINA reports 19,721 returned ballots as of Wednesday morning (with 6 non-reporting counties).
OHIO 49 counties report 33,465 returned ballots as of Wednesday evening.
SOUTH CAROLINA reports 1,753 returned ballots as of Thursday afternoon.
SOUTH DAKOTA reports 7,185 returned ballots as of Wednesday morning.
Where’s Chips? The Comments are a little long and this thread is like a therapy session for some!
Longest TOD thread evah ?
Jovie…I just want to say Thank You for all you do, when everyone was freaking out last night…well you didn’t.
Stay focused guys, the shit will be coming fast and furious…stay calm and carry on (follow our Leader!!)
I was asleep!!!
“The Comments are a little long and this thread is like a therapy session for some!”
That debate was for the media. The media knows Obama is playing them, the media don’t know what to do about fact checking, because Mitt told so many lies. Obama team have lots, lots of stuff from Mitt. Obama is smart, He wanted mitt to be the talk of the media, if the media don’t go after mitt lies, Obama team will and they will make the media look more bias the every. Clinton and Joe have more Information to take to the white people who is on the fence. Obama meant to loose this one. I believe Obama play his cards right last night.
Crikey mikey, just woke up ….. this is one long thread!
I’ll be back in a while with a Rise and Shine, but here’s a new post for the early chatters:
See ya soon
This says it all to me. First of all the numbers still remain very good for the President. http://election.princeton.edu/ Post-debate reaction
October 3rd, 2012, 10:33pm by Sam Wang Second..this comment and reply sums it up nicely to me: Chris Andersen // Oct 4, 2012 at 12:10 am
If you polled the readership of DailyKOS or the panel on MSNBC you’d probably get a 90-10 split on Romney beating Obama. Yet how many of those people do you think will support Obama any less than they already are?
So, when the snap polls show Romney only winning by 70-30, a part of me has to think that we are seeing, once again, that proud tradition of liberals setting their hair on fire at the least sign of things may not going their way.
Sam Wang // Oct 4, 2012 at 12:17 am
Agreed on that last point. It does not fill me with respect.
The triumph of style over substance
from Steve Benen
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