18
Dec
12

Rise and Shine

Good news, for a change:

ABC: Richard Engel, the chief foreign correspondent at NBC News, and his production team have been released amid gunfire at a Syria checkpoint after they were taken prisoner in the civil war-torn country.

“After being kidnapped and held for five days inside Syria by an unknown group, NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel and his production crew members have been freed unharmed. We are pleased to report they are safely out of the country,” NBC said in a statement.

Engel, 39, and his crew vanished Thursday after crossing into northwest Syria from Turkey, the network said, adding that there had been no contact between the Engel and NBC since last week

More here

****

Today:

10:15: President Obama receives the presidential daily briefing

12:30: Jay Carney briefs the press

4:35: President Obama meets with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta

****

Steve Benen: As fiscal talks in Washington continue, it’s generally wise not to react too strongly, one way or the other, to various offers and counteroffers …. Two weeks ago, for example, a lot of folks seemed convinced that President Obama was poised to accept an increase in the Medicare eligibility age, and now that idea is apparently “a line White House is unwilling to cross.”

… [but] there is ample evidence that Obama and Boehner are inching closer to a deal…..  it’s worth paying close attention to its most glaring flaws … From a progressive perspective, “chaining” the CPI is obviously the most problematic element. For many Democrats in Washington, there seems to be a sense that some kind of entitlement cut will invariably be part of any bipartisan deal, and that the CPI measure is arguably the least offensive of bad options, but that’s not much of a defense.

…. For what it’s worth, the NYT noted that Obama is “insisting on some protections for what he has called the ‘most vulnerable populations,'” as part of this CPI provision, but it’s unclear at this point what those protections might be …. we should know more fairly soon, including whether the entire process will completely fall apart.

Full post here

****

Greg Sargent: …… The big picture: With this deal Obama will have broken the GOP’s fundamentalist opposition to raising tax rates on the rich (albeit only on income over $400,000) something that would have been deemed very unlikely a year ago. He will have held the line against the GOP demand for two years of Medicare — a victory. Debt ceiling hostage taking will have been deferred for two years, meaning it won’t get tied up in the next elections. He will have obtained stimulus spending — on infrastructure, and in the form of an extension of unemployment benefits — and as Paul Krugman notes, that wouldn’t happen if we go over the cliff. (I’m told the talks have not focused on the exact sum of stimulus spending the White House wants.) The price: The expiration of the payroll tax cut and the cut in Social Security benefits. That’s bad, but the damage could be limited, if the White House insists on it.

Full post here

****

Washington Post: President Obama on Monday began the first serious push of his administration to attempt to reduce gun violence, directing Cabinet members to formulate a set of proposals that could include reinstating a ban on assault rifles.

The effort will be led by Vice President Biden …. The tentative steps ended a paralyzing debate within the administration over how hard to pursue gun-control legislation, which has been a politically perilous issue for many Democrats. There were signs Monday, however, that such fear was abating on the Democratic side of the aisle.

Democratic Sens. Harry Reid, Joe Manchin and Mark R. Warner made clear that Congress should consider a range of options to address the issue; all three have been strong supporters of gun rights. Sen. Dianne Feinstein said she would introduce legislation that would reimpose the assault-rifle ban that lapsed in 2004.

More here

****

Morning everyone, a very slow start today, will catch up with more news soon-ish.


430 Responses to “Rise and Shine”


  1. 1 donna dem 4 obama
    December 18, 2012 at 9:35 am

    GM TOD

    • December 18, 2012 at 9:39 am

      Morning Donna, morning everyone ;-)

    • 3 proudmemberofglobalzero
      December 18, 2012 at 9:39 am

      Congrats on 1st Donna. Still in tears over all the loss of life due to guns. Off today so my family is working at a food bank this afternoon. I can’t remember the last time we all had a day off on the SAME day! I will be reading TOD as I do everyday.

      Love to all of you,
      Sue

  2. 4 4morefor44
    December 18, 2012 at 9:35 am

    forward!!

  3. 5 hopefruit2
    December 18, 2012 at 9:37 am

    G’morning Chips, TOD, lurkers, everyone, and congrats donna on #1! :)

  4. 6 Sweetpeg
    December 18, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Good Morning TOD! Thank God Richard Engle is safe, I missed it again.

  5. 7 Sweetpeg
    December 18, 2012 at 9:43 am

    In the Spirit of Christmas, this IS the season to: love, give, share, forgive, hope, laugh, hug, & just enjoy our lives!
    So do what you can to spread the cheer!

    • 9 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 12:24 pm

      I should have read this before I posted Sweetpeg…

      I’m afraid I brought some anger with me…

      I’ll do my best to make up the spreading of good cheer as soon as our magnificent President and his lovely family are Hawaii bound…

      I think much of my anger stems from the fact that much of this nonsense with Boehner and his caucus is designed to deprive the President his well-deserved vacation with his family…

      Deal or no deal, I hope the President gets on that plane with his family and gets a much needed get away from the madness…

  6. 10 GGAIL
    December 18, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Good West Coast morning Chipsticks!

  7. 14 hopefruit2
    December 18, 2012 at 9:45 am

    • 15 hopefruit2
      December 18, 2012 at 9:47 am

      Instead of reporting that John Boehner has accepted the President/Dem’s proposal to extend tax cuts for those making under $250K a year, CNBC LIES to make it look like Boehner is the one newly proposing this.

      See how DISHONEST the media is?

      • 16 Chi
        December 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

        It’s insane Hopefruit…

        I just happened to catch a bit of Bill Press this morning…Ugh…

        He is just terrible and certainly no ally of the President…

        As far as Bill Press is concerned, President Obama is the problem…

        And for someone who lives in D.C and pals around with many in Congress, Bill Press sure doesn’t seem to understand how our government works…

        It’s a non-stop Obama bashfest on the Bill Press show with his fellow PUMA’s…

        And when he isn’t insulting the intelligence of his listener trotting out his inane and embarrassingly clueless, shallow and \pathetic stable of mediocre pundits from first class intellectual strongholds like Buzz Feed and Politico, Bill Press is pushing his ironically titled crap book about Obama haters and Obama derangement syndrome – which Bill Press is the biggest purveyor of…

        With ‘allies’ like Bill Press, President Obama needs no enemies…

        And they wonder why President Obama and Mrs Obama won’t socialize with their horrid, two faced, gossipy, narcissistic crappy butts…

        • 17 sonjiaduncan
          December 18, 2012 at 12:43 pm

          I tried watching Bill Press but no more. He doesn’t know as much about Congress and the separation of power as my young grandson in Middle School. He seems to forget the gun bills that never were introduced over the pass two years by the house.

          • 18 Chi
            December 18, 2012 at 1:01 pm

            Oh Sonjia, he pissed me off…

            I normally don’t watch him but every so often if I get up early, I tune in to watch Stephanie Miller who comes on after he does…

            For Bill Press you get the sense it’s just a game and he’ll do and say anything for a reaction from his largely scattered audience…

            With of course a periodic nod to his fellow PUMA’s for whom President Obama can do nothing right…

            The tip off for me was the calibre of folks he brings on to discuss issues – mostly silly, unprepared, intern-like, mediocre kids from D.C gossip rags – or spiteful, grudge-bearing angry anti-President Obama Democrats still smarting from 2008 with no unique perspective on anything and so pretty much regurgitating stuff they clearly found via google…

            For someone who’s hung around D.C for so long, he doesn’t seem to have a clue and seems particularly miffed that President Obama refuses to acknowledge him specifically…

            Like Ed Rendell, he was once the chairman of the DNC…

            Go figure…

        • 21 Puddin'
          December 18, 2012 at 3:44 pm

          I couldn’t stand Bill Press when he was on the various talk shows over the years. But when I found his show towards the last few weeks of the campaign, he seemed to be pro PBO. This morning he tore his drawers as my Mama used to say…I be damned if I ever tune into his show ever again!!!

      • 22 Bill
        December 18, 2012 at 10:08 am

        CNBC is as right wing biased and lies as much as FOX. They are playing to FOX type viewers who believe they can gain investment insight by listening to their market gossip and right wing economic dogma.

        • 23 Nena20409
          December 18, 2012 at 10:33 am

          CNBC was in bed with Romney. Is in bed with Big business and of course, Wall Street. They have been since Santelli went off in the early 2009.

    • December 18, 2012 at 9:48 am

      I thought I read GOP house was crafting bill to make sure it goes up on only those making $1M or more?

      • 25 hopefruit2
        December 18, 2012 at 9:51 am

        The media is putting out all sorts of rumors to disinform and confuse – while releasing manufactured polling to assist.

        Until I hear from PBO/WH officially on a final deal, I will reserve my assessment. The media does not reporting honestly on ANYTHING where this President is concerned. And that includes the so-called “left” media.

        • December 18, 2012 at 9:55 am

          I agree but I will say there is no deal until votes are cast, bill passed and Pres.Obama has signed it. I know some folks are worried that if a deal is reached then it just goes straight to Pres.Obama’s desk w/o debate. When has that ever happened with a GOP House?

    • 27 Lovepolitics2008
      December 18, 2012 at 11:41 am

      Does that mean that Boehner has been negociating in bad faith in the past week or so and he always intended to do this in the end? Damn. Because the deal that the emoprogs are screaming about seems to be better for the near term: some tax increases on the wealthy, capital gains included, infrastructure spending, money for disaster relief, unemployment benefits, defense cuts, and MOST OF ALL, no very damaging showdown on the debt ceiling for two years. The price to pay to get the lunatics in the House to vote yes: some adjustments to SS (that can be mitigated , and revisited in the future if dems win back the House), and a return to the payroll taxes of 2010 (difficult but in the long term a bit more security for SS funds.)

      Seems to be a better deal for President Obama, the democrats, AND the economy than the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling “menace” . For the record, I think the debt ceiling “menace” is making all the difference in President Obama’s leverage in these negociations. I’ve been wondering for a few weeks if the President wasn’t bluffling a bit when he appeared very confident, and prepared to go “over the cliff” at the end of the year. And when the president wanted the House to vote for the Senate Bill extending the Bush tax cuts for people making less than 250k, I was seriously wondering if he overestimated his leverage in the future negociations on the debt ceiling…

      Oh, and by the way, the bashing of the President is to be expected. Many prefer to believe in a fantasy of an omnipotent president, instead of facing the political reality of a GOP who still has some political power. Progressives will win everything only if millions get in the streets, especially in republican districts. The population is applying some pressure but it’s not at the level necessary to make republicans capitulate on everything. So, of course, it’s all Obama’s fault. I’m so so so so sick of this.

      • 28 Chi
        December 18, 2012 at 11:52 am

        ‘…the political reality of a GOP who still has some political power…’

        Together with a very complicit media looking for any way to hurt this President and his legacy…

  8. December 18, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Good day everyone! Great news about Richard Engel and his crew!

    #TrustBarack He’s Earned It

    • 30 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 1:43 pm

      What liability insurance will bring back a life, though? Guns are created to do one thing, and one thing only. Kill.

    • 31 diane
      December 18, 2012 at 1:58 pm

      Bobfr I absolutely LOVE this idea. Liability insurance is perfect. Since most of these whack jobs murder themselves or the owner of the guns, this allows victims recourse. Liability insurance companies would definitely check for mental illness, drug issues, criminal background stc. No second amendment issue. Purely a business transaction.

  9. 34 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 9:50 am

    I am glad first steps have been taken which will hopefully lead to new sensible gun control legislation. I hope this proceeds at a healthy clip, as I don’t think the people in Ct. —-and across this country, me included, —-have the patience for some long, drawn out “conversation”/commission. I’ve been witness to too many of those, leading basically nowheresville. This shocking event has people desperate and wanting action now—-I see it on every single news site across the country. I know President Obama is aware of this urgency and will push accordingly.

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

      The President is a Constitutional Teacher, he seems concerned about the second amendment and how to get around that.
      Then, if he gets around that, what about the fourteenth amendment?
      This is what he was asking his staff, and Cabinet members yesterday.
      Having Joe Biden study what they can do is not a bad proposal.
      Action now, you demand, like all of us.
      Then, why hasn’t action been done over the past 250 years?
      And when their was something meaningful, Assault weapons ban, it was repealed by a republican congress and a republican President.
      So, let’s get rid of the Republicans and then we can pass something legislatively, or Shame the Republicans into submission.
      Unfortunately, action now, i am skeptical because of the Republicans and the slow walking rules of the US Congress.
      Sadly!

    • 37 jackiegrumbacher
      December 18, 2012 at 10:06 am

      Dotster, I spoke with our county commissioner and some mental health agencies in our county and asked that they hold a series of meetings with parents to talk about how schools can protect our children. I am having a meeting on Thursday with activists from the campaign to talk about steps that we can take as citizens to ensure sensible gun legislation. It’s up to us to keep up the agitation at the local level so that politicians know we mean business. Things die on the vine when people get distracted and move on to other things. We can’t let that happen. Let’s all dust off our lists and start calling people locally in addition to lobbying our reps in Congress.

  10. 38 anniebella
    December 18, 2012 at 9:53 am

    In N.C. there is a Republican Senator who I want to email and ask him why has he been so silent over the last few days, I want to ask him have the NRA order him to remain silent. Or maybe Mr. Senator you are doing a soul searching and realizing that we don’t need those kind of weapons which killed those 20 six and seven year old babies, in our society.

    • 39 CindyH
      December 18, 2012 at 9:56 am

      I don’t know if Burr has a soul to search, but if he does, now is the time to probe it!

      • 40 Bill
        December 18, 2012 at 10:22 am

        Burr voted against the veteran’s jobs bill which he helped write and against the UN disability treaty. He loves to talk about his father being a beloved Presbyterian pastor. My opinion would lean towards his not having a soul.

    • 41 anniebella
      December 18, 2012 at 9:57 am

      I also will contact the Democratic Senator too to see where she stands. Would we have her support on any gun control legislation?

    • 43 Bill
      December 18, 2012 at 10:17 am

      I talked to the offices of Burr and Hagan yesterday. The person in Burr’s office kept repeating that Burr supports stronger background checks but would not answer my question about an assault weapon ban. Hagan fully supports an assault weapon ban.

  11. December 18, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Boner just rejected the Presidents new offer, not balanced he says.
    So, he is going to plan B, because he says the President will not balance the tax rate issues and spending.
    It sounds more like, Boner presented it to his caucus, and hs dies not have the votes.
    This Plan B has me worried!
    What is he up to?

    • 45 hopefruit2
      December 18, 2012 at 9:59 am

      Whatever the Plan B is – will die in the senate.

    • 47 jackiegrumbacher
      December 18, 2012 at 9:59 am

      He thinks because the president is actually negotiating with him, he can wring more concessions. He still hasn’t learned. Guess we need to get ready for the cliff, i.e. curb.

      • December 18, 2012 at 10:07 am

        I keep cautioning all of you. The President is very concerned about the debt limit, no matter how much you all want to ignore that, that is what is holding up the negotiations.
        The President wants a 2 year hike, the Republicans only one year, so they can bring it up again to run on in 2014.
        Thus, It’s the debt limit stupid!
        LOL!

        • 49 Lovepolitics2008
          December 18, 2012 at 11:48 am

          I totally agree with you, as I said in a post above. The debt ceiling “menace” makes all the difference. The GOP still has the leverage of economic terrorism. And it makes me sick.

          • 50 joyfulmeme
            December 18, 2012 at 4:21 pm

            Disagree on this. I don’t believe they have leverage on the debt ceiling. All the President has to do is refuse to negotiate when it comes to the ceiling. They will be fully responsibile for what happens if they vote against it.

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:13 am

      I just found out that the only deal they can agree on is the tax cuts for middle class.
      This is plan B, and then in 1 month hold country hostage over the debt limit to get Medicate and SS cuts.
      That his plan B.
      I was right all along, you can send me flowers if you wish.
      LOL!

  12. December 18, 2012 at 9:57 am

  13. 53 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Here is a better quality version of The Voice’s moving Hallelujah tribute to the victims in Ct. I love any version of that song, every version. And whatever your opinion is of Christina Aguilera, that girl can sing!

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:21 am

      I just can’t get through it without losing it.

      • 55 jacquelineoboomer
        December 18, 2012 at 1:50 pm

        One of the most moving tributes was when the NFL and others had a moment of silence before the start of games around the country, with some of the players’ bringing their children onto the field with them, holding some of the younger ones in their arms. I lost it.

    • 56 Lorraine
      December 18, 2012 at 2:21 pm

      I saw this amazing tribute, live. I love the fact they had signs with each victims name and age on them. It was beautiful.

  14. 57 CEB
    December 18, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Good morning everyone; keep the faith.

  15. December 18, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Good morning Chips and TOD family, I hope everyone have a wonderful day today. Remember what Morgan Freeman said about rumors as your hear the BS coming from the irrational PL, the useless ass media, and the lying as ReThugs:

    “@MorganFreeman__: Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”

  16. December 18, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Added extract from Steve Benen’s post on the fiscal negotiations, full post here:

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/18/15992244-obama-boehner-inch-closer-to-debt-deal

  17. 60 sherijr
    December 18, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Well I feel stupid, I don’t know what the “CPI” is.. please someone inform me ??

  18. December 18, 2012 at 10:18 am

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:21 am

      Exactly! That my point. Hostage taking. Be prepared for a government shutdown in a couple of months. Just like in 1995, and the republicans were to blame.
      Groundhog day!

      • 71 theo67
        December 18, 2012 at 1:56 pm

        I don’t think businesses are prepared to let that happen. They’re enjoying the economic recovery, their profits and the general sense of well-being. I think the businesses are going to apply pressure against any hostage taking – the GOP are delusional.

    • 72 jacquelineoboomer
      December 18, 2012 at 2:04 pm

      Nancy Smash said on Andrea Mitchell’s show (I held my nose and watched Andrea just to see Nancy) that Boehner’s Plan B was more like “Plan B for Befuddled.” Love her!

  19. December 18, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Greg Sargent: …. The big picture: With this deal Obama will have broken the GOP’s fundamentalist opposition to raising tax rates on the rich (albeit only on income over $400,000) something that would have been deemed very unlikely a year ago. He will have held the line against the GOP demand for two years of Medicare — a victory. Debt ceiling hostage taking will have been deferred for two years, meaning it won’t get tied up in the next elections. He will have obtained stimulus spending — on infrastructure, and in the form of an extension of unemployment benefits — and as Paul Krugman notes, that wouldn’t happen if we go over the cliff. (I’m told the talks have not focused on the exact sum of stimulus spending the White House wants.) The price: The expiration of the payroll tax cut and the cut in Social Security benefits. That’s bad, but the damage could be limited, if the White House insists on it.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/18/the-morning-plum-should-progressives-accept-the-new-fiscal-cliff-deal/?wprss=rss_plum-line

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:24 am

      I liked this deal, while everybody was freaking out last night.
      But, Boner does not have the votes, it’s plan B middle class tax cuts and hold nation hostage over the debt limit.
      Check.
      Boy, I can read these Republicans like a Book, they are so predictable.
      Let’s hope the President shames them back to the negotiating table.

      • December 18, 2012 at 10:33 am

        Hi Jovie, yeah, the initial reaction to these reports was a bit hair-on-fire-ish, but even Sargent and Krugman seem to feel it would largely be a good deal *IF* there are strong levels of protections in the chained-CPI business for “the most vulnerable”. We’ll see what happens, as Benen said:

        “Two weeks ago, for example, a lot of folks seemed convinced that President Obama was poised to accept an increase in the Medicare eligibility age, and now that idea is apparently “a line White House is unwilling to cross.”

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:45 am

      We should call it a proposal. A deal implies all parties involved have agreed to it. John and Prez may say ok but there is still Congress to deal with.

  20. 80 Eveingeorgia
    December 18, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Good morning, every one.

    Would someone help me to understand why PBO has to offer anything related to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? Didn’t the Republicans cause this current deficit with two unpaid wars, mishandling the surplus left by Clinton, and their unpaid for Medicare program? ( ( (Can’t remember the name of it).

    It’s almost like the Republicans cause deficits intentionally in order to weaken programs they do not like. Are these programs really a drain on the economy?

  21. December 18, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Boner is so predictable, 2 dimensional thinking.

  22. December 18, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Also, Bober is passing a bill that is 1 million or less tax cuts, that revenue is only 400 billion over a decade.
    The rest of the deal they will hash out over taking the country hostage on the debt ceiling.
    Oh well, back to the drawing board. Pushing the gun control debate to the sidelines.
    Again!

  23. 94 debz
    December 18, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Morning all, I’m happy to see Richard Engel is safe. As to POTUS offering something for social security, that would be a tradeoff for unemployment benefits and stimulus money. Also there would be protections in the ss changes for the poor and disabled. I hope everyone realizes that if we go over the fiscal cliff people would lose their unemployment benefits as well as the loss of other middle class protections, too many seem to think it’s just about taxes.

    • 95 Nena20409
      December 18, 2012 at 10:40 am

      Indeed. I was so happy. I wish his family can ask him to stay away from Syria for now. In war, bad things happen.

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:41 am

      Good point, I am not sure if the Extension of UE benefits but the debt limit would get raised for 2 years and additional stimulus spending for Housing industry.
      It’s not going to happen, the GOP thinks the country will be ok if we shutdown the government in 2 months unless they get their way.
      They are Ruthless and very tough negotiators.

  24. December 18, 2012 at 10:37 am

  25. December 18, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Animals are such a healing balm. This Cat Is A School Crosswalk Guard:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/catesish/this-cat-is-a-school-crosswalk-guard

  26. December 18, 2012 at 10:42 am

    As a few have tried persistently to convey – we have no idea what the President is willing or not willing to do. Until He tells us, we won’t know. What is increasingly clear is that for Boehner to pass anything he will need a lot of help from Speaker Pelosi and Dems. That won’t come easy for him, either.

    BBL

    #TrustBarack He’s Earned It

    • 108 hopefruit2
      December 18, 2012 at 10:47 am

      That’s right Bob. The media is ginning up this thing to get people riled up, erode PBO’s support and give the GOP leverage. We won’t let them.

      #TrustBarack He’s Earned It.

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:55 am

      He can easily pass the millionaires and under tax cut with Only Republicans and then go home.
      It’s how they roll!

  27. December 18, 2012 at 10:50 am

    • 111 utaustinliberal
      December 18, 2012 at 12:56 pm

      The idea that one can purchase guns and assault weapons from what is essentially a grocery store churns my stomach.

  28. December 18, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Is this the best they can do?

    House, Senate pledge to help prevent future shootings

    By Pete Kasperowicz
    The House and Senate passed identical resolutions on Monday that mourn the loss of the 26 killed in last week’s shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, and say both chambers are “committed to working together to help prevent tragedies like this from ever happening again.”

    The resolutions — H.Res. 833 and S. 621 — do not make a specific pledge to strengthen gun control laws. But the resolutions were passed on the same day that several Democrats resumed their call for tougher laws, particularly those that would ban guns that can fire dozens of rounds per minute.

    • 113 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 11:30 am

      How exactly do they intend to do that…

      Not by giving press conferences and yelling at President Obama a la Michael Bloomberg…

      • 114 theo67
        December 18, 2012 at 2:03 pm

        And I notice that the media conveniently ignore two facts:
        1. Michael Bloomberg has aided and abetted the “A” raters of the NRA such as Scott Brown, by raising money for them to help deregulate the government (guns, banks, healthcare).
        2. “A” raters got that rating for a reason – deregulating the gun industry to such a degree that there are 300 million guns on the streets, and no way to regulate them to keep kids safe in theaters, schools, parks, churches – to the point that they now need armed police stationed at their entrances, and it’s become a common sight to see SWAT teams rushing into elementary schools.

        • 115 Chi
          December 18, 2012 at 2:39 pm

          That’s what’s maddening about all this media cooing and touting of Michael Bloomberg and his fake concern…

          Michael Bloomberg is not advocating against a proliferation of guns, he instead wants more of it – just in the hands of those of his choosing…

          He wants us to model ourselves and our internal security issues after Israel – a country facing very different circumstances…

          The painstaking length he goes to qualify his Mayors against *illegal* guns self-promoting organization, makes no sense especially as his rants seem to not reflect or coincide with his true position of guns being completely acceptable under most circumstances except in the hands of minority groups in urban communities…

          His Mayors against illegal Guns thingy is made a complete mockery of especially seeing that most of the killings that seem to activate Bloombergs public rants and media rounds are actually those committed by gun men with legally obtained guns…in non-urban settings…

          And nobody seems to see the crazy irony in all of Bloomberg’s silly, grandstanding…

          • 116 theo67
            December 18, 2012 at 2:46 pm

            Indeed – it’s the LEGAL guns that are the problem. They should be illegal. And the people who are calling themselves “responsible gun owners” should actually take responsibility to keep the rest of us safe from the consequences of their fetishes. I heard the friend of Adam Lanza’s mother stating this morning how proud she was that her son (whom she knew was mentally unstable) had been taught how to responsibly handle guns – how can anyone even utter those words when all the dead haven’t even been buried yet?

            • December 18, 2012 at 4:37 pm

              This goes right along with the invalid, cookie cutter argument that “Criminals don’t obey gun laws” do gun laws won’t work. Adam Lanza was not a criminal until he massacred 20 inncoent children with his leagally purchased weapons.

    • 119 dotster3
      December 18, 2012 at 11:53 am

      Meaningless, pointless.

  29. 120 amk for obama
    December 18, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I was thinking about 2012 elections and what if…

    The entire first term of PBO was spent on fixing the previous presidents’ fuck-ups – stabilizing the economy, wall street reforms, healthcare reform, stimulus, DADT, DOMA, Iraq & Afghanistan wars, frigging debt, bush tax cuts etc. etc. – All these done against the sabotaging ways of treasonous 100% Noppers.

    If only the fucking americans had given him another 20 more congressional seats in 2012, imagine what he could have done for his own agenda in second term – Jobs bill, greater stimulus, no cuts to SS/Medicare, taxing the job exporters, taxing the stinking rich, streamlining the DOD, fixing the debt ceiling forever, more new economy jobs, sane environment policies, fucking gun control, a saner supreme court, cabinet full of smart people, better international relations.

    Sigh…. A right man for a wrongest country. Depressing.

    • 121 debz
      December 18, 2012 at 10:56 am

      Agreed, I would say, if only Americans voted in 2010, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    • 122 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 11:55 am

      ‘…A right man for a wrongest country. Depressing…’

      Indeed…

    • 123 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 2:05 pm

      This is sadly all true. It’s a waste of a gift to this country. Four years of Republicans controlling the House 2010-2014 have deprived the country of progress, faster recovery, investments in building the country, good vibes, etc.

  30. 124 yardarm756
    December 18, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Ahoy aboard the USS TOD! Request permission to come aboard? I see you lot have been giving a clean sweep down fore and aft and the vessel appears ship shape. Hoist the pennant cause you appear to be underway! :-D

  31. 140 hopefruit2
    December 18, 2012 at 10:58 am

    I agree 100%

    • December 18, 2012 at 11:00 am

      Has the creature formed another anti-PBO alliance with Norquist yet? It’s surely time? And then she can set up another PAC to raise money for herself … sorry …. for her causes.

      • 142 hopefruit2
        December 18, 2012 at 11:05 am

        Norquist and Greenwald – her two BFF’s.

      • 144 hopefruit2
        December 18, 2012 at 11:06 am

        …And Stinkerwink – her 3rd BFF.

      • December 18, 2012 at 11:12 am

        Someone I follow or who follows me, RT’d one of her tweets. It said ‘Most Americans oppose Obama’s Plan To Cut SS’ and then it lead to an article on her site. Ugh.

        IF chained CPI is included in the final bill, it won’t matter how much Prez tried to cushion the blow and It won’t matter how much he got in return, the left will run all over the country saying Obama cut Social Security. You won’t even remember that it was the GOP who wanted this for decades. GOP will sit back take no heat as usual.

        • December 18, 2012 at 11:16 am

          You know GB, one of life’s simple pleasures for me is unfollowing anyone who retweets her, Greenwald or any similar frauds – **** ‘em all. Honestly, I guarantee you, she will launch a big fundraising drive on the back of this, that’s what it’s all about for her. Someone who linked up with Norquist and Teabaggers to try and kill the ACA? And some people still think she’s a ‘progressive’? Oh boy.

    • 148 amk for obama
      December 18, 2012 at 11:00 am

      LOL. That firebagger is still out there?

      • December 18, 2012 at 11:04 am

        I thought (hoped) the thing had spontaneously combusted after PBO’s re-election, but apparently, she’s back. Must be running low on funds. Morning Amk!

        • 150 amk for obama
          December 18, 2012 at 11:07 am

          Morning Chips. I am feeling low for the past few days. An extremely capable & decent man not allowed to perform his best for his country. What a fucked up political system.

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:12 am

            I knew you were fed up Amk, I don’t blame you at all. The only person who doesn’t seem to get dragged down by the madness is PBO himself. Hang in there, as you said yourself, he achieved incredible things in his first four years despite everything, he’ll do it again. Every time I feel like giving up, he achieves something that would make your heart sing.

            • 152 99ts
              December 18, 2012 at 12:42 pm

              GM Chips and all – in my world it’s 3.30 am – I woke an hour ago & couldn’t sleep – so here I am. On the last thread I read this line from a new poster swbluega

              “In addition to being informative, this site is inspirational.” Describes the site to perfection and your wonderful comment here is absolute proof. I have been depressed for days with the news – yet PBO doesn’t let himself be overcome by it all – he continues to fight and win against the odds. The NRA and the GOP lost the election – despite they were so sure they would win – they were wrong – as was the MSM and they are all wrong again.

              I also read this piece from a link here – http://bigstory.ap.org/article/around-world-massacres-have-spurred-gun-control

              “Did it [gun control] work? In Australia’s case, the change appears dramatic. There were a dozen mass shootings with at least five deaths in the country between 1981 and the Tasmania massacre; there have been none in the 16 years since.

              Studies have tracked a reduction in gun deaths in Australia since the 1996 reforms, particularly in suicides. The journal Injury Prevention reported in 2006 that the risk of dying by gunshot had halved in Australia in a decade.”

              After a massacre that killed 35 – we got rid of the guns. it can happen.

          • 153 yardarm756
            December 18, 2012 at 11:14 am

            Don’t blame the machine if it malfunctions. Just some of the workers who are suppose to maintain it.

            • 154 amk for obama
              December 18, 2012 at 11:19 am

              The problem is the system that allows this hateful minority group is openly sabotaging the machine wantonly and worse, they don’t get called out by the media. Washington is not working is right.

              • 155 carla4obama
                December 18, 2012 at 11:53 am

                The media is BROKEN. I’m not sure any of hem are real journalists, they don’t report facts, they spread distortions.
                There should be a reality TV show..The Real Journalists of Washington D.C. and show how dysfunctional and immature they all are.

                • 156 theo67
                  December 18, 2012 at 2:10 pm

                  You’re right, Carla – the media aren’t real journalists – they’re actors. They’re paid to play a role. Very few people in Washington or elected office are actually there to serve the people. We’re lucky one of them is the current President.

      • 157 hopefruit2
        December 18, 2012 at 11:05 am

        Like the disgusting, vile rodent that she is, she only pops up when opportunity presents itself – when the lights are out.

  32. December 18, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Btw- the GOP needs to change the subject off of gun control and back to what they want to talk about, deficit reduction.
    Check!

  33. December 18, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Thank you, Chips, for posting this GOOD news. I really like Richard Engel, think he’s the finest reporter of his generation. Really an aspirational role model.

    (And re: video, looks damn fine with a well-earned stubble.)

  34. 168 hopefruit2
    December 18, 2012 at 11:08 am

    • 169 Nena20409
      December 18, 2012 at 11:21 am

      The campaign paid his political guru in 2 months $134M to pres Obama’s $6M for 2012. They borrowed $20M in August. With all their money, yet they were the business group that were supposed to fix America? Hmmmmmm?

  35. 170 hopefruit2
    December 18, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Robert Reich need to take a long walk off a short pier. Or he could go to hell with Jane Hamsher and stay there.

    • 171 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 11:45 am

      I despise this hair on fire crowd…

      This was exactly the crap Bill Press was pushing this morning, ginning up so much anger against the President…

      Then he had people calling in insulting and disrespecting the President for ‘caving’ and ‘betraying’ ‘his supporters’…

      I was so livid, I went to his chat room and completely shredded him to bits – and some on there that were already on the bash President Obama bandwagon…

      i really despise these people who claim to be Democrats but do so much more harm to the cause…

      And while they are all focused on attacking the President, the republicans are busy undoing the last vestiges of whatever democratic structure we have in States they control…

      Where is the loyalty, common sense and savvy with Democrats…

      • 172 theo67
        December 18, 2012 at 2:29 pm

        There will always be a group of people who have an appetite for disrespecting this particular President. They pretend they aren’t just like those on the right, and motivated as such, but anyone with actual concerns would express those concerns – and not leap to the “caving” and “weak” nonsense. After four years, this President has earned my respect, and my trust. And I know he would never make a deal that would harm the middle class and the poor, unless he’s trading it off against something that would harm them even more. And sometimes, there are just no good decisions, just less worse ones.

        There is no room in this scenario for attacking the President, who has consistently worked for the middle class and the poor and the benefit of this country. There are people in this deal-making who have made it perfectly clear that they are willing to drag the poor and the middle class and the entire good faith and credit of this country down into the ditch to protect their wealthy benefactors. Where is the outrage from these whiners like Bill Press about those people? Where is the push for calls to their offices and demands that they put the country first? Where have those whiners been while the American Jobs Act has been languishing in Congress? Where were they when the President needed their help to pass health care reform?

        Just as the President has proven himself repeatedly over these years, so have these catterwalling emoprogs – we know who they are and what they’re all about. they are the other side of the tea party coin. And none of it will move the ball forward for the good of this country or its people.

    • 174 utaustinliberal
      December 18, 2012 at 12:58 pm

      People who freak out over a proposal and not a finalized deal are so very tiring.

  36. 175 relellit
    December 18, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Good morning, Todville and Chips,

    I am so confused on this deal or no deal. I know very little past econ 101. I think it is the media making it appear to be something it isn’t. I can not see our President betraying his base as hard and he and us worked to give him a second term.

    Anyhow I am glad Richard Engel is fine.

    Everybody have a nice day. :)

    • 176 FiredUpInCA
      December 18, 2012 at 11:54 am

      Nobody really knows what’s being said in the room except, the people in the room.

      So on cue, as has been the case in past negotiations, people giving their best guess about what’s going in the room and then working themselves into a frenzy about stuff they’ve imagined or heard from somebody, who heard from somebody what’s being said in the room.

      If these people didn’t appear on television with tailored suits and serious tones, it would be hard distinguish this ritual from the conversations of grade schoolers.

    • 177 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      The GOP had absolutely no leverage in this battle – and so the media is doing everything they can to provide them with cover so they can deceive enough people into giving them some leverage. And the emoprogs like Ezra Klein and Bill Press are happily obliging.

      There’s no need for you to become an economic wizard. You said it yourself that President Obama will not betray what he and everyone have worked so hard to accomplish – what he’s worked his whole life to support – the middle class and the poor. And he’s proven that to you and his base many times over – his whole life is a testament to that.

      Wait until he speaks. Know that he’s making the best deal that is possible to be made, with as little harm to an economy which he knows a lot more of the depths of the damage than any of us – and that whatever deals he ends up making will be the deals he had to make when faced with a GOP that are willing to bring this country and the world to it’s knees in order to protect their rich benefactors. This is the same GOP whose answer to the tragedies that we keep living through are “more guns”. The same crowd who haven’t lifted a finger in four years to help the country recover. And the same crowd who have disrespected almost every group of people in this country again and again. That’s who he’s negotiating with in order to keep the middle class and poor from suffering. Remember that.

  37. 181 SUE DUVALL SMITH
    December 18, 2012 at 11:17 am

    PRAISE GOD! I AM SO THANKFUL FOR THE RETURN OF THE NEWS TEAM! HAVE A BLESSED TUESDAY EVERYONE…I LOVE MY PRESIDENT! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!…:)

  38. December 18, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Good morning Chips and TOD family! My heart still aches for the families in NewTown. We will not allow the msm to move on from weapons of mass murder. We will never forget. We can multy task and this fiscal cliff I do trust the President to make the right deal and then explain what we got. I do believe the Repubs know they have to deal They have nothing for the people.

    Once again thank you everyone here in TODville for the family we are. For all the information and for the love of this country. We are now in this for the long run as the President is.

  39. 183 Don
    December 18, 2012 at 11:26 am

    One would think that Robert Reich would know better than to go off half cocked in a negotiation, I mean he did work in the Clinton Administration after all. Reich and his ilk never seem to give President Obama the benefit of the doubt.

    • 184 amk for obama
      December 18, 2012 at 11:30 am

      Nah, that lil prick is unhappy the PBO doesn’t care for him or his views. So now, he has to take to heel sniping on twitter.

    • 186 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 2:37 pm

      And all those phone calls that will be directed to the White House could actually have been directed to members of Congress who are actually working against the people. That’s a really stupid move.

    • 187 nathkatun7
      December 18, 2012 at 4:49 pm

      When does Robert Reich get to teach, grade papers, and do some studying on how the U.S. government functions. He is always on t.v. or on radio bashing the President. If he is so knowing of how he can impose his views on Congress, then he should plan running for President and show us how it’s done. For an eminent professor he surely shows less understanding of the American political system which always thrives on compromise; especially when you have two opposing political parties controlling the Congress and the Executive.

  40. December 18, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Does anyone know if UTAustinLiberal is just busy? She hasn’t been on twitter for 21 hours.

  41. December 18, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I’ve been unfollowing quite a few hand-wringers on twitter. Just can’t tolerate the hysteria and betrayal when things get tough.

    • 202 Don
      December 18, 2012 at 11:40 am

      Same here, at the slightest bit of discomfort they start show their true colors.

    • 203 sherijr
      December 18, 2012 at 11:41 am

      I have unfollowed folks this morning also, for the same reason… lots of pushing of rumors. got no time for the same old same old behavior from folks… once again I’ll wait for POTUS- thats who I trust.

  42. 204 donna dem 4 obama
    December 18, 2012 at 11:45 am

    This same thing different day hair-on-fire reaction to things around this President is actually become quite comical at this point. I’m not even gonna to spend my time engaging it.

    Whatever agreement the President decides on will have the best interest of the country at heart. Folks need to understand that these negotiations are not just about those tax rates. If that was the case he would probably just let them expire and force a vote on the middle class tax cuts after the new year. PBO knows that he is working with a radical, obstructionist Rethug Congress for at least two more years so he is going to leverage this fake, ginned up controversy by them to get as much as possible out of this deal. I don’t have to like “every” aspect of a deal but he has done nothing to make me question his judgement. He is and will always be in my opinion the only adult in the room when it comes to negotiations with these nuts. Please try and keep that in mind when you get drawn into the sausage making in Congress.

    • 205 Don
      December 18, 2012 at 11:48 am

      This right here is the comment of the day!

    • 206 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 11:49 am

      spot on…

      I’m so sick of the non stop second guessing of this President like he was some toddler learning to walk…

      it’s so insulting, demeaning and offensive in every way and it make me so mad…

      • 207 hopefruit2
        December 18, 2012 at 12:05 pm

        The thing that really bothers me is that the same people who are willing to believe every utterance that comes from clueless Ezra Klein are quick to classify this president as guilty, naive, clueless, stupid – until he proves THEM wrong. They say that they shouldn’t blindly trust this president, yet they are blindly trusting the likes of Klein, Sam Stein of HP, etc.

        This is something I’m having a hard time reconciling with some of the people who claim to support and respect Obama. Giving these little clueless media pundits more credibility than our President is not respect. It’s not support. As Chi said, It’s offensive, insulting and demeaning in every way.

        • 208 Chi
          December 18, 2012 at 12:16 pm

          No different from when the President writes and gives a great speech and they quickly dismiss it as ‘rhetoric’, but are quick to coo and gush non stop at some mediocre speech or words by any other random politician – no demands for commensurate action to validate ‘rhetoric’…

          Only this President gets to be slated for giving great speeches – the hallmark of all great men…

          And in many instances, great speeches were all many a great men in history were great for…

        • 209 vcprezofan2
          December 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm

          I don’t usually get involved on twitter when the nonsense starts, but peeking in before work this morning I shocked myself by saying something….

      • 210 Nena20409
        December 18, 2012 at 12:07 pm

        You are 1001% correct.

        Technology has made it so darn easy for all to be their own Town Crier. So long as their is an audience, well, a STAR is born. An Expert is made.

        The right on 11-06-12 were all sure that they would win. They had their audience.

        On 10-5-12 or so, with the 1st debate, many of these people were certain that Pres Obama had done so poorly. They went into a crumbling episodic state. WHY? Technology….. exaggerates reality.

    • 211 Vicki Green
      December 18, 2012 at 12:46 pm

      Exactly rght. And to repeat what I posted yesterday Nancy Pelosi said no deal would be made at the expense of seniors.
      I believe Nancy.
      I trust PBO.
      All the rest is noise.

    • 212 HZ
      December 18, 2012 at 12:50 pm

      Good Morning/Afternoon to Chips and my TOD family. “He is and will always be in my opinion the only adult in the room when it comes to negotiations with these nuts. Please try and keep that in mind when you get drawn into the sausage making in Congress.”

      And with that, thank you so very much donna dem and a beautiful day to everyone. Keep your space free of clutter from the unhinged people who are ready to move in with you. (((((((( Love you, my TOD Family.)))))))))

      Lots of ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Loving hugs to Fred and Jackie and her sister.))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))HZ

    • 213 vcprezofan2
      December 18, 2012 at 1:28 pm

      DD4O, I always appreciate your businesslike, no-nonsense take, epitomized for me by the words ‘Whatever agreement the President decides on will have the best interest of the country at heart’.

    • 214 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 2:38 pm

      Here, here!

    • 215 nabsentia23
      December 18, 2012 at 3:44 pm

      The “hair-on-fire” crowd is getting very predictable. It’s almost on cue.

    • 216 nathkatun7
      December 18, 2012 at 4:53 pm

      Donna dem, I am with you 100%!

  43. 217 Pamela
    December 18, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Checking in late to say G’day y’all! Will be in and out. Love ya’! {{{{{PBO}}}}} {{{Chipsticks}}} {{{ TOD}}}

  44. December 18, 2012 at 11:49 am

    This gun violence is just wrenching but a good example of ordinary people who are coming together to push for change. WOW, what courage.

    http://edition.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=4

  45. 219 proudmemberofglobalzero
    December 18, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Not a truer tweet posted:

  46. 223 vcprezofan2
    December 18, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Good to see Engel and his crew are okay (will refrain from saying what I really think about reporting from ‘hot’ zones). Got to work, THEN discovered that I was only needed for 1/2 day. :roll: Guess who isn’t truly upset though? ;)

  47. 226 collegekay
    December 18, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Are we going to be able to see the interview with PBO and MO that was cancelled on Friday?

  48. 229 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    • 230 vcprezofan2
      December 18, 2012 at 1:32 pm

      I am pleased to see these mayors were ‘savvy’ enough to also address the letter to Congress!

      • 231 nathkatun7
        December 18, 2012 at 5:00 pm

        VC, They are not only “savvy,” they are sane. They fully understand the way the U.S. political system functions. The President is not a dictator as the Mayor of New York seems to think. I am glad his fellow Mayors showed him how it’s done.

    • December 18, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      I’m sorry, what? Rupert Murdoch’s NY Post? The same Rupert Murdoch whose Fox News refuses to mention “guns”?

    • 235 Nena20409
      December 18, 2012 at 12:32 pm

      Editorial of the NY Post?

      Hmmmm?

      How do they plan on getting that Obsolete in a nation with 300M firearms?

      Perhaps they should talk to Fox and many in the Southern and rural areas that watch Fox.

      ERA failed in the 1980s. I don’t ever see the 2nd Amendment repealed. In USA, once a right is in the Constitution, the removal is nearly impossible.

      • 236 nabsentia23
        December 18, 2012 at 3:47 pm

        Yep, the only time an Amendment was ever repealed was Prohibition.

      • 237 nathkatun7
        December 18, 2012 at 5:08 pm

        The 2nd Amendment does not have to be completely repealed. It can be amended or superseded by a new Amendment that bans assault weapons but still retains the right of citizens to own guns.

  49. 239 xtine
    December 18, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    [DOJ & SEC have begun investigations!]:

    The Times’s examination reveals that Wal-Mart de Mexico was not the reluctant victim of a corrupt culture that insisted on bribes as the cost of doing business. Nor did it pay bribes merely to speed up routine approvals. Rather, Wal-Mart de Mexico was an aggressive and creative corrupter, offering large payoffs to get what the law otherwise prohibited. It used bribes to subvert democratic governance — public votes, open debates, transparent procedures. It used bribes to circumvent regulatory safeguards that protect Mexican citizens from unsafe construction. It used bribes to outflank rivals.

    Through confidential Wal-Mart documents, The Times identified 19 store sites across Mexico that were the target of Wal-Mart de Mexico’s bribes. The Times then matched information about specific bribes against permit records for each site. Clear patterns emerged. Over and over, for example, the dates of bribe payments coincided with dates when critical permits were issued. Again and again, the strictly forbidden became miraculously attainable.

    Thanks to eight bribe payments totaling $341,000, for example, Wal-Mart built a Sam’s Club in one of Mexico City’s most densely populated neighborhoods, near the Basílica de Guadalupe, without a construction license, or an environmental permit, or an urban impact assessment, or even a traffic permit. Thanks to nine bribe payments totaling $765,000, Wal-Mart built a vast refrigerated distribution center in an environmentally fragile flood basin north of Mexico City, in an area where electricity was so scarce that many smaller developers were turned away.

    .
    More here: http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/18/15993508-wal-mart-plays-role-of-aggressive-and-creative-corrupter-in-mexico

  50. 240 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Indiana mom launches “One Million Moms for Gun Control”—–urges groups to form across the country—–which has already begun:

    http://www.indystar.com/article/20121217/NEWS/121217049/Zionsville-mom-s-online-crusade-urges-gun-control

    • 241 dotster3
      December 18, 2012 at 1:08 pm

      I think this is something we should involve ourselves—–she says it’s not about dialogue, it’s about action—–and that there are 4 million NRA members but 84 million moms in this country—–there’s power in those numbers. I already see the NRA flocking to the comments on this article, to bully, to intimidate, to mock. It’s time to take them on. Past time.

    • 242 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 1:09 pm

      Good for her…

      That’s how the MADD thing took off and made all the difference in our DUI plagued culture…

      Just hope she’s not hijacked by the astro turf folks…

    • 243 nathkatun7
      December 18, 2012 at 5:14 pm

      She is doing a great job. Grass-roots mobilization is the most effective way to accomplish meaningful gun control laws.

  51. December 18, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Comment on TPM:

    “Just as I thought, the President offers proposal that pisses of his base that he knows will NOT be accepted, he is now completely inoculated from blame when we go over the cliff. GOP takes huge hit, we finally get some Defense cuts and a new middle class tax package that the GOP will rightly see as the offer they cannot refuse.”

  52. December 18, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Who is that woman in the front row that keeps rudely interrupting Jay? He looks like he’d like to clip her press pass!

  53. 254 cookemom
    December 18, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Gooood Morning O folks!! Back to say hello on this great getting up day again on the TOD playground!! Missing in action for a few days to reflect and respect the young victims of the doings in Connecticut and elsewhere. Now I’m back to the good news of Engel’s and his crew’s reunion with the free world. So now it’s on to the economic issues of the day. Poor Rusty, he has to convince as many in his caucus as he can to have his back, while at the same time, wooing Speaker Pelosi to help him with the Dems he’ll need to see this thing through. Couldn’t happen to a nicer orange.

    • 255 vcprezofan2
      December 18, 2012 at 1:38 pm

      Trying to sneak in under the radar, are you? Is the replacement b/room ALL done? Mine seems to have stalled , with the contractor who was expected ‘early’ today texting that he’ll come later because of babysitting issues.

      • 256 cookemom
        December 18, 2012 at 1:51 pm

        Lawdy you wouldn’t believe what this little kitchen faucet leak has done to my general well being! The only progress I’ve made so far is to have the plumber tear out my cabinets and counter top, fix the leak behind the wall (had to tear out the kitchen wall and basement ceiling), and say to me as late as yesterday, ‘Let me get back to you’. In the meantime, shopping for and purchasing new cabinets, appliances, and countertop will surely take care of this country’s deficit. No need to raise the debt ceiling, I’ll be settling that for us real soon.

        And to think, I thought there’d be a new kitchen and bath at cookemom’s house for the holidays. Instead, I’ll be cooking on cardboard boxes while looking at a wall of exposed pipes and using the upstairs tub for water and dishwashing.

        It’s all good though, #1 and the grandkids will be here. You know, the important stuff.

        • 257 vcprezofan2
          December 18, 2012 at 2:43 pm

          You know CM, I really wish you hadn’t explained so thoroughly in parag. 1! I wouldn’t want to transfer any of this info telepathically to my own kitchen which I’m trying to persuade to hang in there until spring. ;) ;) I have been pricing counter tops and cabinets and dreaming of islands (as in a complete remake) at just about the time you first mentioned your own adventure, only to conclude that I can’t afford it. Of course, in the meantime I notice that the cupboard door beneath the sink is not closing naturally as before. Ay yi yi! I was hoping to invite WiW’s husband over to demonstrate his cabinet expertise once again, but she told me that they intend to keep his first job as a unique experience.

          The important stuff is indeed what matters. Grandkids will probably see this visit as a special adventure in which they learn ‘all about’ pipes. And if my thoughtful, little fundraiser thinker will be among the group, he’ll no doubt have some terrific ideas as to how to solve any obstacles. My contractor showed up, a helper and daughter in tow, and she is currently playing with toys in one bedroom while he and helper figure out something or other about wiring. The joys of home maintenance! :lol: :lol:

  54. 259 xtine
    December 18, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    [TrustBarack! Nobody knows as there's no deal yet.]:

    “We ought to deal with Social Security in a separate conversation that is not part of deficit reduction,” Durbin told me. “To do it at this stage is the wrong way to go.”

    Durbin has said this before, but it’s notable that he’s repeating it in the wake of the White House’s reported offer of a deal that includes Chained CPI for Social Security.

    Pressed on why the White House is backing this, given that it’s bad policy, Durbin blamed Republicans, saying they were insisting on including it in a final deal. “The president is trying to get to an agreement, and I understand that,” Durbin said. “Boehner has been adamant that he wants Chained CPI.”

    “The Speaker and many of his Republican friends are hell bent on Chained CPI,” Durbin continued. “It may be part of an overall solution [later] but to do it at this stage is the wrong way to go.”

    Durbin pointedly said that it would be a “hard ask” for many Senate Dems if the White House includes Chained CPI for Social Security in a final deal. But Durbin declined to rule out the possibility that Senate Democrats would ultimately support it if the White House insisted on it.

    .

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/18/dick-durbin-no-cut-in-social-security-benefits/

    • 260 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 2:55 pm

      And the emoprogs, instead of flooding Boehner’s offices with calls, since he’s the one insisting on the CPI, turn their anger towards President Obama.

  55. 261 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 1:13 pm

  56. 263 Bill R.
    December 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    It looks like another one of Ezra Klein’s rumors about debt deal were bogus. Boehner’s “Plan B” is another failed attempt at a fig leaf. It’s more games by the Rs. Maybe they will pull a last minute cave on the Senate bill, but looks like Club for Growth is calling the shots for them. The NY Times reporting on the “deal” turns out to have also been bogus. As a retiree and SS recipient I have to say I actually have no personal problem with changing the formulation for the COLAs. The reality is the CPI probably isn’t an accurate gauge of cost of living for most seniors. I think the administration’s probable favorability to the change is that it will bring in more income tax revenue from high income seniors.

    • December 18, 2012 at 1:27 pm

      Thanks for your perspective. I guess the thing that troubles me is placing SS on the table at all, especially in discussions about deficit reduction. I worry that it opens the door for further reductions but I am certainly not wringing my hands and saying that PBO is a terrible president. I trust PBO implicitly.

  57. 268 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Nancy Pelosi’s interview with Andrea Mitchell was awesome. She is backing Pres. Obama 100% in the fiscal cliff negotiations and she is unwavering in her support for him. It’s fantastic. We need her as Speaker again.

  58. 271 anniebella
    December 18, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I just finish watching Speaker Pelosi ( she should be Speaker) on Andrea Mitchell show, and Speaker Pelosi was asked about the President latest proposal and she supported the President all the way.

    • 272 anniebella
      December 18, 2012 at 1:36 pm

      I think the Progressives who were running their mouth earlier today are trouble makers who don’t think this President is doing right unless he does everything they want him to do.

  59. 273 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    More awesomeness from Leader Pelosi.

  60. 279 Bill R.
    December 18, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    President Obama knows Nancy Pelosi is someone who is both a team player and who will stand up for what’s right and bring others with her.

    • December 18, 2012 at 2:00 pm

      And their was never a rift in the leadership with the House democrats They always had the Presidents back. However, It was several lone wolves that love attention and buck leadership, that made it seem otherwise.

  61. 282 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 1:39 pm

  62. 283 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    I see Obama met with Sen. Manchin re. gun control. I hate that this is necessary, but I guess it is—–to engage and gain the support of these gun nuts.

    • 284 cookemom
      December 18, 2012 at 1:59 pm

      It’s the form of government we enjoy. PBO has to go through the legislature to have a binding and long term solution to the issue. Any executive order he has at his disposal could be easily changed with the next administration or as soon as a special interest group threatens a congress critter. It’s better that this goes thru Congress. If for no other reason than to see who fer it or agin it. Turn on the lights and let’s see how the vote goes. Who’s more important to them now, the grassroot folks who are demanding a change or some NRA coward who has yet to comment on this past week’s massacre?

    • 286 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 3:14 pm

      I hope the President told him to make up for having earned an “A” rating and go wrangle his cohorts into doing something about all the guns they’ve let out on the streets and into the hands of gun nuts – and to tell their gun manufacturing benefactors that there time is over. I’m not impressed that the “A” raters are now calling for gun control – since they’re the ones who created this mess in the first place!

  63. December 18, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Hello all TOD friends. HOPE all is well with you. Glad to hear about the safety of Richard Engel and his crew. He was very lucky. I trust our President no matter what. I sincerely believe he will do what is best for our country, always. God bless. Hope to be able to catch up soon.

    • 288 jacquelineoboomer
      December 18, 2012 at 2:20 pm

      Hi, Jackie – I’m with you all the way on your trust for our President. And I have HOPE that somebody tells Richard Engel to try to take a break from being in war zones for a while … pushing his luck a little too far! I’m so glad they’re safe. Have a good day, Jackie.

  64. 289 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    If anyone uses Instagram, HEADS UP.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57559710-38/instagram-says-it-now-has-the-right-to-sell-your-photos/

  65. December 18, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Perspective ….

    • 291 Lovepolitics2008
      December 18, 2012 at 2:20 pm

      Oh I didn’t think of that one ! A good example to debunk to debunk the delusions. This should be mailed , tweeted to Bob Bennet,
      Louis Gomert (sp?) and Co.

    • 292 Cman
      December 18, 2012 at 2:26 pm

      That’s not too strong an example because the guy doing the shooting was eventually stopped by a someone else with a gun. And it does not help the case for gun control in civilian life. Does it?

      • December 18, 2012 at 2:53 pm

        “Eventually” – reflect on that and on the fact that armed folk were trained not merely on how to fire their weapon but how to use a weapon in chaotic situations which combat always is. A bunch of civilians in a similar situation would be way more likely to kill or wound one another than the shooter. That’s why anyone putting forward the notion of ‘more guns is the answer’ is a fool, or worse. And, that’s the valid message in the tweet.

        Apart from that, here’s my current list of common sense measures for barely adequate gun control:

        Beyond total ban on combat weapons (and any semi-automatic rifle or shotgun with a magazine size larger than 5 rounds) & ammunition:

        1 Mandatory liability insurance for ANY person using a gun of any type;
        2 Proof of insurance to purchase a gun of any type and ammunition of any type;
        3 Stringent limits on the amount of ammunition one can purchase – if we can do it for Sudafed (see attached image) we can certainly do it for ammunition;
        4 Rigorous gun training (for the type of gun used) including safety prior to issuing a license – said license required before insurance is issued;
        5 License required before a person is legally authorized to use or purchase a gun and ammunition;
        6 License must be renewed annually;
        7 License includes mandatory 28 day waiting period, background check for any criminal record (including juvenile criminal record), & mental health check (paid for by revenues collected from license fees on guns, ammunition excise tax, and license fees for certification of user);
        8 License fee on each gun – renewed every 3 years;
        9 Excise tax on ammunition to the equivalent of at least 50% the retail purchase price per round;
        10 Excise tax on all reloading equipment, casings, gun powder, etc equivalent to at least 50% the retail purchase price;
        11 Mandatory jail sentences, structured appropriately, for violation of any of the above;
        12 Stringent product liability on manufacturers of guns, ammunition and the makings of ammunition if their product is used illegally;
        13 Shutter all online ability to purchase guns, ammunition and makings of ammunition;
        14 Restrict sales at gun shows to all the standards required at any wholesale/retail outlet with the added exception that any purchase must be shipped, i.e., can’t leave a gun show with a gun, ammunition or the makings of ammunition.

        Yes We Can

      • 294 theo67
        December 18, 2012 at 3:16 pm

        What it tells us is that even within the confines of a body of people who are trained for combat and who have volunteered to put their lives on the line, a gunman can still wield a lot of damage before someone is able to get to him. The gun is the problem.

    • 295 Nena20409
      December 18, 2012 at 3:03 pm

      The shooter was stopped by a Military Police personnel for soldiers are not allowed to carry live firearms like the shooter was doing.

  66. 296 cookemom
    December 18, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    They’re right, guns don’t kill people. Bullets kill people. Get rid of the bullets and the guns become doorstops or fancy yard decoration.
    This way they can’t say that PBO or the government is coming for them.

  67. 299 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    THIS. A thousand times this.

  68. 301 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 2:12 pm

  69. 303 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 2:16 pm

  70. 305 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    They never learn. He’ll screw them over again.

    • 306 jacquelineoboomer
      December 18, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      The only way this works for any union is if Christie turns Democrat. Otherwise, they’re screwed.

    • December 18, 2012 at 2:30 pm

      If Christie is re-elected, it will be another WI, MI, OH, etc.. he will sign legislation to become a “right to work for less” state then take away their right to vote or make it more difficult. Why don’t these people look at these other GOP Gov’ers?

    • 308 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 3:41 pm

      A labor union endorsed Chris Christie…

      Has the world gone mad…

  71. 309 Lorraine
    December 18, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    This is why Richard Engel (and his crew) need to stay in America. I was concerned for his safety after I found out he was missing. Every time I see him some where, I’m thinking “how in the World did he get there, why are they just letting him report from this dangerous site, he better be careful hanging around in that Country.” My sister absolutely loves him and his reporting. I’m so glad he (and his crew) is safe.

    • 310 Japa21
      December 18, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      I have tremendous respect for him and others that do his type of reporting. He knows the dangers and does this willingly. And we need these people who are willing to take the risks so we get real info.

      • 311 Lorraine
        December 18, 2012 at 2:38 pm

        So do I, however I don’t want him hurt or harmed. I agree we need people like him but not at the expense of his life.

        • 312 jacquelineoboomer
          December 18, 2012 at 3:36 pm

          I agree. But I think he said his war reporting already came at the expense of his marriage and God knows what else. I think it becomes a lifestyle and almost an addiction for some of them. They get the headiness of danger in their heads and can’t let go. Maybe this time!

  72. 313 dotster3
    December 18, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    I see the Danbury, Ct. gun show scheduled for Jan. 5 has been cancelled. (Kids under 10 get in FREE!) Online ad promoting it was accompanied by the sound of a gun shot. Nice touch. (extra special revolting)

  73. 315 jacquelineoboomer
    December 18, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    [This could be the ticket. Follow the money, Republicans!]

    Tamron Hall: Wall St. says it’s getting out of the gun making business, after what it calls a watershed event.

    • 316 jacquelineoboomer
      December 18, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      Shouldn’t have written “Wall St.,” since it’s just some corporations and firms … but one of the private equity firms getting out of the gun making investment business did so, apparently, because one of the teacher unions out of California said they may consider pulling their investments with that firm. If the grandmothers and grandfathers don’t inspire a change in thinking, the teachers will!

    • 317 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 3:25 pm

      It really is all about the money – behind every bad thing happening. Money has become a god for some (e.g. Romney).

      “For the love of money is the root of all evil”.

  74. 318 jacquelineoboomer
    December 18, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    I like this header on MSNBC: NRA in lockdown.

    So much better than having schools and movie theaters in lockdown.

  75. 321 susanne
    December 18, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    senator inouye’s memorial:

    ‘ Tentative plans call for Hawaii Senator Daniel Inouye to be remembered in a ceremony Friday in Washington, D.C. and laid to rest Sunday at Punchbowl National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific in Honolulu. ‘

    http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/20374065/memorial-for-sen-inouye-to-be-held-friday-in-washington-dc-sunday-at-punchbowl-his-office-says

    • 322 jacquelineoboomer
      December 18, 2012 at 3:12 pm

      Does anyone know the President’s plans for traveling to Hawaii with his family for Christmas? Not sure if that’s been announced yet. I think he’d want to attend both the memorial ceremony in D.C. and the burial in Hawaii, if his schedule allows, to honor this fine gentleman.

      • 323 susanne
        December 18, 2012 at 3:53 pm

        i haven’t heard when he’ll travel, or flotus and the girls. last year, he left d.c. on dec 23, due to the rethugs’ obstinacy. i hope he’ll be here for the senator’s memorial, which is sunday the 23rd.

      • 325 Alycee (@jazziz2)
        December 18, 2012 at 5:01 pm

        I’ll speculate like a “beltway pundiot” — If no deal is agreed to by Friday, PBO will give boner his “best and final” before attending service in DC on Friday; he’ll then escort the Senator’s body and family home to HI. He’ll attend service in HI on Sunday; then spend the holidays with the first family. If boner accepts, votes could take place over the weekend; if rusty needs more time to sell, votes could take place 27th or 28th. If rusty refuses, Nancy Smash will be all over the airways slamming the repubs for failing the common man…

  76. December 18, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Purists make me scratch my head. They really are rooting to go over the cliff without any realization of what the impact might do to the U.S. economy. Their hope is that it’s a relatively minor bump … but no one actually knows how much our economy can take a hit like this. We’re still barely out of the worst recession in our lifetime and because the recovery has been so fragile, the potential of plunging back into the recession could be devastating for so many Americans – even if these people believe it’s worth the hike in taxes.

    I think back to what happened to the economy in the summer of 2011 and that was just over negotiations on the debt ceiling. We not only saw a downgrading of our credit rating, but the overall growth of the economy slowed to the point where it appeared we could be heading for another recession. Fortunately, we were able to bounce back – but that was without any real devastation … just speculation and negotiation.

    If we go over the cliff, we’re almost certain to go into a recession. But is our economy ready to weather the recession storm? Unemployment is high as is – I wonder if these same purists will then turn around and attack Obama if unemployment jumps to 10% or higher in 2013? What would that do for 2014 – if the economy doesn’t rebound from this hit fast enough?

    If we go over the cliff, we must have a better reason than spite. Just my thoughts.

    • 331 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 3:43 pm

      Let them howl. They can’t be heard from inside the White House, where the actual work is being done. Hold tight until a deal is announced – President Obama and his team know the consequences. The same people who howled in 2010 about extending the tax cuts were oblivious to the other items that were involved in that deal – many are still oblivious. Remember the President came out and scolded them, telling them that they want to climb onto their sanctimonious perches and demand purity. He knows what they’re about, and he knows what’s at stake.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/07/AR2010120707214.html

  77. 332 jacquelineoboomer
    December 18, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    After WV Sen. Manchin made some good remarks about gun control, PRESIDENT OBAMA CALLED HIM. Manchin was a guy who had to distance himself from the President to get elected in WV, or so the story goes. I personally think he’s a racist hiding in the Democratic party, but I’ll leave it there. In any event, no matter how he’s treated or how much he disagrees with someone, President Obama once again puts country over self. I just love our President.

    • 333 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 4:12 pm

      ‘…I personally think he’s a racist hiding in the Democratic party, but I’ll leave it there…’

      I personally think so too…

      And there are quite a few too besides Joe Manchin with D’s after their names who are just as racist as their kindred spirits in the Republican/Libertarian/Tea party…

      The ascent of President Obama to the highest office in the land has indeed exposed so much and so many – and it has all been quite painful a discovery and an education…

      • 334 jacquelineoboomer
        December 18, 2012 at 4:20 pm

        Starting with ’08 regarding the SC race. Very painful, but good that it was revealed, so we can all stop fooling ourselves with that old romantic notion. Someone else wrote here once, and I had come to that realization in ’08, as well, that he or she was totally shocked to find racists in the Democratic Party. I was in la la land for a while there, too, but my eyes were opened. And, yes, it’s all very sad.

    • December 18, 2012 at 4:33 pm

      I’m not terribly sure Manchin voted for PBO. He refused to endorse him.

      • 336 Chi
        December 18, 2012 at 4:58 pm

        I actually don’t believe that Ed Rendell, James Carville or Mark Pryor voted for President Obama…

        That’s just a short list…

      • 337 jacquelineoboomer
        December 18, 2012 at 5:01 pm

        Luckily his one bitter vote didn’t matter.

        We won! Maybe in January, we can start celebrating that truth.

  78. December 18, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Howdy folks! Been working away all day but I had to stop in for a read. SO glad Engel and his crew are safe and on their way home! That must have been a terrifying experience or them. All this fiscal cliff back and forth is starting to give me a headache, what with some press agencies lying about it, spinning it for their anti-PBO cause and so on. But I applaud him for standing strong as much as he can and still make it work, I hope the Reps will wake up and get the job done.

    And the gun debate rages on. One of my FB “friends” has been posting pro-gun crap but has yet to submit a valid arguement or actually state what her position is. So yesterday I commented on one of her posts with a very straightforward question: Do you believe that American citizens should be allowed to own assault riles? She deleted my comment and went right on with her parrot-speak, copying things others are saying. I think that is a MAJOR part of this issue that needs to be addressed: people who follow the crowd on the pro-gun side, because they think they agree, when they really are not very educated on the issue at all.

    So I think that will be something I will try to focus on in my own community, education. What are your thoughts on this?

    • 339 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 3:46 pm

      Sadly, re: your friend on FB, some people never learn until they experience something themselves. You should just send her a wish that she’ll never have to eat her words after a tragedy like this comes home to roost on her doorstep..

  79. 340 susanne
    December 18, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    ‘ White House Press Secretary Jay Carney expanded on President Barack Obama’s call for “meaningful action” in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. school shooting last week, saying Obama is calling for “reexamining gun laws” as part of a larger solution.

    Briefing reporters, Carney outlined some of the proposals Obama is backing, noting “his support for reinstatement of the assault weapons ban, his support for closing the so-called gun-show loophole.”

    Carney said that Obama spoke with Sen. Joe Manchin — an NRA member who has expressed support for new regulations in the wake of the shooting — about what they can do.

    “He is absolutely supportive of Sen. Feinstein’s stated attempt to revive [the assault weapons ban],” Carney said, saying he would also support a ban on high-capacity magazines. ‘

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/obama-gets-specific-on-gun-control

  80. 341 xtine
    December 18, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    A little lightness & fun. Some talented eye candy! And, yes, Idris is there, ladies! Gents, there’s eye candy for you too! :)

    http://thegrio.com/2012/12/14/black-british-actors-making-waves-in-hollywood/#s:david-oyelowo

    • 342 utaustinliberal
      December 18, 2012 at 3:28 pm

      That was a nice diversion. A lot of them are my faves and are ridiculously talented. Glad they’re finding success in America.

  81. 344 TheWorld4Obama
    December 18, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    I like how that Prof Hemenway is dismantling that stupid SE Cupp lady’s stupid study reports on how more guns help decrease gun crimes (The Cycle show)
    What is wrong with this gun-loving people not being able to recognize that more guns mean more people will be killed using guns. These people are so obtuse when they start “loving” their guns that it seems they love guns more than people uuggghh…

    • 345 jacquelineoboomer
      December 18, 2012 at 3:33 pm

      As a friend of mine reminds me, you cannot reason with people who didn’t use reason to come up with their viewpoints in the first place.

      SE Cupp needs to go. I’m beggin’ ya, MSNBC!

      • 346 Bill
        December 18, 2012 at 3:48 pm

        She is unwatchable.

        • 347 jacquelineoboomer
          December 18, 2012 at 3:52 pm

          And I don’t watch. If I happen to turn on The Cycle, and have forgotten she exists, then see her, no way do I hang around. As The Stomach Turns.

          • 348 Chi
            December 18, 2012 at 5:03 pm

            I’ve never watched that show…

            A friend of mine says of S.E Cupp that the glasses are part of an attempt at looking smart which fails woefully…

            She swears those lenses have no prescription strength…in other words, they are just plain glass…

            • 349 jacquelineoboomer
              December 18, 2012 at 5:08 pm

              Wouldn’t put it past her. She seems like someone who’s old enough, but hasn’t quite figured out “the world,” yet. Reminds me of someone who has no close friend, and is searching, searching … First, she goes on record as being close with Newark Mayor Booker, and does an interview with him where she’s flirting the heck out of it. Then she’s off doing a duck hunter segment with rednecks for her show, smiling her head off because they’re chatting with her and maybe offered her a to-go pack. What’s next?

      • 350 yardarm756
        December 18, 2012 at 4:00 pm

        You should have known that. She’s a damn gun nut. She loves duck hunting, wearing camos and face paint while laying in the weeds. She’s now talking more about mental health as opposed to guns.

        • 351 jacquelineoboomer
          December 18, 2012 at 4:04 pm

          She hangs with the duck hunters, I realize. Probably can’t get any friends among those who haven’t seen her in camos and face paint. Anyway, I just flipped on my DVR’d Martin Bashir show, and I believe she must have said something stupid, and – with a wonderful look of “You’re stupid” on his face directed at her – Martin just took down her argument on mental health. Ahhh.

          • 352 yardarm756
            December 18, 2012 at 5:10 pm

            However, if fear this gun control issue is gonna morph into mental health issues. They’re trying hard to go that way. Deflect, deflect, deflect!

            • 353 jacquelineoboomer
              December 18, 2012 at 5:22 pm

              They’re trying, and they are succeeding in giving voice to that, but I’ve seen a couple of them knocked down. That’s all smoke and mirrors for the current situation, as we know. Just like the “no God in schools = murdered school children.” Funny how Newtown, CT, had every religion and spiritualist group represented in their town and at the memorials.

              Good idea, Yardarm: Deflect!

            • 354 yardarm756
              December 18, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    • 355 dotster3
      December 18, 2012 at 4:48 pm

      Cupp talks almost daily about her love of guns and love of hunting. I would say she loves guns more than anything or anyone. She just bubbles with delight when she talks about them. She did a recent segment where she went to La. and spent a long weekend with a real rough around the edges hunting family there, shooting ducks, eating ducks etc. And every Friday she squeals that she’s going hunting again. She’s sick. That whole program was a mess——-too many guns, too late, nothing much can be done but it’s really great that we’re having a conversation about guns. If one more person says something about “having a conversation” about gun violence, I may explode. People want to leave it there—-with the conversation. And move along, everybody.

  82. 356 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Good development.

    WASHINGTON — In unusually rare and blunt criticism of its top Mideast ally, the Obama administration has slammed Israel for continuing to announce new settlement construction on land claimed by the Palestinians.
    The State Department accused Israel on Tuesday of engaging in a “pattern of provocative action” that run counter to statements from Israeli leaders that they are committed to peace. Spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said settlement activity only puts the goal of peace “further at risk.” She urged both Israel and the Palestinians to halt all provocations and take steps to revive long-stalled peace talks.

    The tough comments came as Israel’s prime minister rejected international criticism of plans to build thousands more Jewish homes in east Jerusalem, saying construction would move forward.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/us-hits-israel-hard-on-settlement-plans-85257.html#ixzz2FRD17wqb

    • 357 Chi
      December 18, 2012 at 5:21 pm

      I would be curious to know how the State Department and those who cover that agency determine when to use ‘the Obama administration’ for announced actions and when they decide to simply credit the State Dept…

      I ask this because there’s a hard to miss pattern of conviniently attributing unpopular and politically risky actions to ‘the Obama admnistration’ while the State dept seem incredibly possessive of and eagerly claim successful missions and other cheery actions of ‘the Obama administration’…Even when the spokeswoman for the State dept is the source of both types of announcements…

      Fascinating stuff…

  83. 358 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 3:36 pm

  84. 359 relellit
    December 18, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Fiscal cliff: Obama rejects Boehner’s ‘Plan B’ (UPDATE)

    “Speaker Boehner’s ‘plan B’ is the farthest thing from a balanced approach,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in a statement. “It will not
    protect middle class families because it cannot pass both Houses of Congress. The Senate bill is the only ‘plan B’ that can be signed into law and prevent taxes from rising by $2,200 on the average middle-class family.”

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/121218/fiscal-cliff-boehner-obama-plan-b

    ————————————————————————————————–

    I bet the Boner was drunk when he presented that same ole warmed over ridiculous plan. :lol:

    • 360 relellit
      December 18, 2012 at 3:43 pm

      I wonder what will that hypocrite Bill Press say tomorrow morning now?

      • 361 COS
        December 18, 2012 at 4:27 pm

        As soon as I saw what Press would be discussing on his show this morning, I immediately turned away. Bill is such a wishy washy person. He makes a controversal show out of everything PBO does, and he is obsessed wit Politico guests.

  85. 362 Don
    December 18, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    And that is why President Obama is where he is today, Sen. Joe Manchin no doubt gave President Obama the stiff arm more than once but President Obama looked beyond the silly little pettiness of Sen. Manchin and reached out to him to get his vote on the new gun laws coming down the road.

  86. 366 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    I found this hilarious. Maple Syrup?!?! Seriously? That’s what you plan a heist for? Canada clearly needs better and less high thieves. :lol:

    • 367 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 3:52 pm

      I feel proud to be Canadian, if these are the types of crimes we’re dealing with… ;)

      • 368 susanne
        December 18, 2012 at 3:55 pm

        maple syrup is worth the risk! it is superb, supreme, super-yummy!

        • 369 theo67
          December 18, 2012 at 4:35 pm

          :) I heartily agree. I was tickled to see that there’s even trafficking of maple syrup, and that Quebec houses reserves of the stuff! Who knew?!

      • 370 utaustinliberal
        December 18, 2012 at 4:00 pm

        You should be. It made me chuckle and brought a badly needed smile to my face. They did a crap thing, but the cheekiness of it made me howl with laughter. Over there, Wall Street rips the foundation of our economy, over in Canada, they get caught for planning a maple syrup heist. :D

        • 371 theo67
          December 18, 2012 at 4:36 pm

          I’m still chuckling myself… I sent this to all my Canadian friends who are telling me to come home… From the frying pan into the fire? ;)

    • 372 edp4bho
      December 18, 2012 at 3:54 pm

      Dang, wish I could’ve gotten a piece of that :-D I love pure male syrup !

    • 380 lisalovesobama
      December 18, 2012 at 3:55 pm

      I can see it in the Canadian history books now: ‘The Great Maple Syrup Heist of 2012!’ ——-thanks, this was funny.

  87. 381 susanne
    December 18, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    from the ‘oh please would you shut the f-ck up’ dept:

    ‘ If she has a concussion, let’s see the medical report. Let’s see some proof that she’s not just stonewalling. If it’s true, then we can all wish her a speedy recovery. But it’s ridiculous to expect us to take her word for it. ‘

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/12/conservatives-think-hillary-clinton-faking-her-concussion/60114/

  88. December 18, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    I am watching Kornaki(CornHACKI) slam the CPI. I was wondering if the MSM deliberately tries to make a deal tougher, by only interviewing both sides Ideologues and the objections they present?
    Instead, why not interview People who want compromise, you know, the vast majority of the Country? Hello?

  89. December 18, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Treasury Secretary- American Express CEO Chenault!!
    Commerce Secretary-
    Xerox CEO Ursula Burns.
    Emo progs heads explode 3,2,1…

    • December 18, 2012 at 4:06 pm

      MSNBC not reporting any of this breaking news I give to you? Sad! :(

      • 387 susanne
        December 18, 2012 at 4:16 pm

        the jovie press :)

        • 388 Janelle
          December 18, 2012 at 4:25 pm

          Thanks Jovie for the info, I noticed Ursula Burns sitting next to the Obamas in the Kennedy Center photos. I had a feeling that she would have a position somewhere. She’s been on the business council for awhile.

    • 389 Lorraine
      December 18, 2012 at 5:03 pm

      What is, “Emo progs,” Jovie?

      • December 18, 2012 at 6:25 pm

        Here is the definition from Urban Dictionary

        // Emo Progressive (or “emoprog”) is a self-described liberal or progressive, often with libertarian leanings, whose political orientation is to be angry, dissatisfied and unhappy with the state of the nation at any given time, because in their view, liberal policies are not being implemented quickly or forcefully enough. They have particular contempt for Democratic presidents.

        Emoprogs are ideological purists who disdain compromise and incremental change, which they see as “selling out” liberal ideas like full employment, an end to all wars, state secrets, and liberal social policy.

        Emoprogs dislike Republicans but reserve their greatest disdain for Democratic presidents, whom they relentlessly attack for not meeting a set of ideological goal posts that are constantly adjusted to ensure that the president will be deemed a disappointment, “not progressive enough” or “just like a Republican” no matter what policy achievements are made.

        Emoprogs routinely dismiss or ignore congress’ role in making or impeding policy, believing presidents can simply “use the bully pulpit” and “fight” in order to overcome constitutional or legislative obstacles.

        Emoprogs have a strong affinity for 3rd party politics as a way to punish Democratic presidents. They are especially hostile to President Obama and deem anyone who expresses a lack of ill will toward him to be “Obamabots” and enemies of liberalism. //

  90. 391 a4alice
    December 18, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Awesome Bob Off to write the white house!

  91. 393 donna dem 4 obama
    December 18, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    Whoo!!! Just visited twitter and ended up unfollowing a slew of people. :roll:

    Now back to my regularly scheduled program (or back to work) :lol:

    • 394 Cheryllou
      December 18, 2012 at 4:37 pm

      I’m getting ready to unfollow a lot of people. I am FED UP with their whinging. They are hearing rumors and they are going ballistic, accusing the President of selling them out. I’m sorry but they are stupid.

      • 395 edp4bho
        December 18, 2012 at 4:43 pm

        Kinda makes you realize just how hard the O’team had to work for re-election wiith folks like those on board !!

      • 397 sabreen60
        December 18, 2012 at 4:48 pm

        The emoprogs have gone crazy yesterday and today on Twitter. It’s mostly the usual suspects. I have simply had it with one in particular. She has lost her damn mind and nothing anyone says to her makes a difference. I’ve put off unfollowing her, because she is/was part of this community, but I’ve had it.

    • 398 jackiegrumbacher
      December 18, 2012 at 5:11 pm

      Yes, Donna, after the election, I tried venturing back to some of the formerly toxic sites, but no more. Even as the electoral votes are being counted, these people are throwing rocks and mud at the president. They don’t even care what the facts are as long as they can work up a huge dose of self-righteousness. It’s like a drug. To hell with them. Life’s to short to spend one minute of it caring about people who love to live in outrage.

    • December 18, 2012 at 5:45 pm

      Whew! I just did the same thing and I feel sooo much better.

  92. 400 Bill
    December 18, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    The current Republican idea of arming teachers is the most surreal social policy I can remember.

  93. 401 susanne
    December 18, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    oh chipsticks….. :) new thread please!!
    did she go christmas shopping? is she drinking egg nog with a wee dram?
    or (horrors) is she working?

  94. 402 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    NRA releases a disgusting statement that insults every victim of gun violence.

    National Rifle Association spokesman Andrew Arulanandam emails the first statement from the organization since Friday’s massacre in Newtown.

    National Rifle Association of America is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters – and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown.

    Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common decency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting.

    The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.

    The NRA is planning to hold a major news conference in the Washington, DC area on Friday, December 21.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/nra-promises-meaningful-contributions

    • December 18, 2012 at 4:40 pm

      Excuse me, but I know from a friend who sadly worked for a gun manufacturer for a while that while the NRA might have individual members it is essentially paid for as a lobbying arm for the manufacturers. What scum they are for hiding behind moms and dads, sons and daughters. They are vile, self-serving profiteers.

  95. 404 edp4bho
    December 18, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    What I was attempting to say before I noticed my error (yes , it was) is I’ve been listening to talk radio today, and a small number of people brought up the issue of drone strikes, and how is it PBO can challenge us on gun control but issue unmanned missiles, killing innocent people. Of course, some of these callers, as witnessed by the tone of their voices, have a long-standing animosity toward PBO for that practice and/or they just need to counter him on anything they can find, but my sense is that our president feels terrible about these deaths as well. I was livid when one caller said he didn’t “see” PBO cry over victims of drone strikes, and my unverbalized response (it was the radio, after all) is how the hell would he know if PBO cried or not? Anyhow, I would venture to say that this latest incident, among so many non-nationalized but similarly tragic deaths of babies, affects him greatly, and was probably also on his mind when he had to make the speech in CT.

    • 405 Rain
      December 18, 2012 at 5:03 pm

      I agree completely. I am sure there are many, many tears we don’t see. And probably a lot of them about things over which PBO has no control. My heart goes out to him. It must be incredibly difficult for such a deeply feeling man to do his job.

      • 406 Lovepolitics2008
        December 18, 2012 at 6:32 pm

        Tell me about it. I’m pretty sure that all his decisions about attacking terrorists has A LOT to do with the fact that he is scared sh*** about loose nukes and other WMD falling in the hands of terrorists. For that not to happen, he has had to accept the inevitable death of innocents. That must break his heart, and be a source of very hurtful soul searching. Can you just imagine his prayers at night?

        One thing that I want to say : we don’t know for sure the number of innocent victims of the drone attacks. Some groups have an interest into inflating the numbers. But there ARE victims, no doubt about it. I remember back in 2009, in the very first days of his presidency, President Obama ordered a drone attack in Pakistan, and a little child of five years old died. I cried that night, because I just KNEW that President Obama cried too. He had to confront right away the very dark side of the job.

    • 407 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 5:11 pm

      “War – what is it good for”? These people don’t want drones, but also demand to be kept safe and reject any notion of sending more troops over to fight on the ground. Don’t want fighting, but also won’t dream of reducing the size of the military or the Defense budget. They don’t want troops overseas, but also do nothing to demand that Congress create jobs here at home for them to come home to. Want President Obama to bring the troops home today, but ignore the very real infrastructure that needs to be torn down and shipped home – as well as the need to exit carefully (even those who had a front row seat like Maddow), and the same people decry violence escalating in Iraq because the troops are now gone and they demand that President Obama do something about it.

      I don’t agree with the drones, but if there’s fighting and killing to be done – and it would appear that there is – then I’d rather have a weapon in the sky do it, than several men on the ground who put their lives in danger. It’s a true conflict. I do know that President Obama started his Presidency with the goal of limiting civilian casualties – and I believe they’ve done this. I have no doubt that his heart cries out for every innocent child caught up in these struggles – how could it not, especially since we know the measure of the man. But, in his Nobel speech, he explained how he rationalizes the need for war at times. I believe that he’s looking at the bigger picture, and considers keeping his own citizens safe from harm as his first priority. As much as he’s called the “Leader of the Free World”, he’s the President of the United States first. And he’ll do whatever he thinks is necessary to make sure he keeps his people safe.

  96. 409 utaustinliberal
    December 18, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    This twitter account is hilarious. It’s a parody on the 50 Shades of Grey books.

  97. 412 FiredUpInCA
    December 18, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Reading all the wailing and lamentation on various blogs, I am reminded about why it’s a good idea that only the President and Boehner are in the room.

    So much drama over a deal that is not near to being completed by a President who does not have to give up anything, is not facing re-election and won the popular vote by 51%.

    I will wait and see what can get done by this very intelligent, very patient President who does not write legislation but most work with people who do.

    Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.

  98. 415 Nena20409
    December 18, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Hello Sweet Chips……a chat away page?

    It is hard out here trying to navigate with commenting.

  99. 417 xtine
    December 18, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    [Dood, that was so wrong! Such a waste! :) ]

    Police in Tuscany have arrested a man on suspicion of breaking into the cellar of a producer of a rare and costly red wine and pouring 80,000 bottles’ worth on the floor.

    Andrea Di Gisi, 39, was described by police as a former employee of the vineyard, which produces highly praised bottles of Brunello di Montalcino that sell for up to €500 (£407). [...]

    .
    More here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/18/italian-arrest-wine-spillage-raid

    • 418 theo67
      December 18, 2012 at 4:58 pm

      Yikes! I hope they throw the book at him. Wasting $80K worth of red wine? What could they have possibly done to him to deserve that?

      • 419 99ts
        December 18, 2012 at 6:20 pm

        It seems he is upset – but how much better that he attacks the wine rather than the workers at the vineyard

        • 420 theo67
          December 18, 2012 at 8:31 pm

          Well, that’s true… I was momentarily stunned at the thought of all that lovely wine, but you’re absolutely right! :)

  100. 422 carolyn
    December 18, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Totally off topic here…..but, if John Kerry becomes SOS, that means Elizabeth Warren will become the Senior Senator from Massachusetts. How about that, achieving rank just by being elected. In the hierarchical world of the Senate that is really a big deal. She will always be introduced as the Senior Senator…..a title that gives immediate clout. Scotty Brown never made that…..hahaha.

    Public opinion works: Michigan’s Snyder will veto that awful gun bill that allowed guns in schools, churches and daycares. Backlash is a wonderful thing sometimes.

    • 423 susanne
      December 18, 2012 at 5:02 pm

      yes, and the new senator mazie hirono becomes the senior senator from hawaii. word is that gov abercrombie will appoint rep colleen hanabusa to replace sen inouye (until a special election in 2014). so we’ll have two incoming senators, one just elected (‘senior’), the other just appointed.

      • 424 Cha
        December 18, 2012 at 6:11 pm

        Aloha, susanne.. do you know how Colleen’s US Rep Seat would be handled? Would we be without until the next election or could Gov Abercrombie appoint someone to take her place if she does go on to be appointed Senator?

        Mahalos.

    • 425 Nena20409
      December 18, 2012 at 5:02 pm

      MI Gov has already vetoed the bill.

      If the awful Scott Brown sneaks back in as a senator in the next 160 days, he will out rank sen Warren in seniority. I am hoping that he never gets back in.

      Sen Luatenberg of NJ or some other senator was given back his seniority years ago.

  101. 427 xtine
    December 18, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    [Damn, that was long ago cold, lotsa plots!]:

    The Egyptian pharaoh Ramses III, whose death has puzzled historians for centuries, had his throat slit in a succession plot concocted by his wife and son [Pentawere], a new analysis suggests.

    New CT scans have revealed a deep and wide cut that was hidden by the bandages covering the throat of the mummified king, which could not be removed in the interests of preservation, researchers said on Tuesday.

    [....] During the latest investigations, a genetic study of a previously unidentified mummy that was found in the same burial chamber as Ramses III revealed it to be a relative, possibly Pentawere. The study showed that he was probably hanged.

    “Furthermore, he was not embalmed in a normal way. They had not removed his organs and he was wrapped in a goat skin, something considered impure in ancient Egypt,” Zink said.

    Pentawere may have been forced to kill himself as a punishment for the conspiracy, Zink said.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/dec/18/mummy-wife-killed-pharaoh-ramses

    • 428 jackiegrumbacher
      December 18, 2012 at 10:07 pm

      Interesting, Xtine. Ramses III was very old when he died, especially for that era. His wife and son didn’t have long to wait before nature took its course. If his son killed him, then he deserved to be wrapped in a goal skin.

  102. 430 Walking_on_ Sunshine
    December 18, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    Well. I’m glad Richard Engel and his companions are safe. I do have respect for the kind of reporters who go out into the world and bring us actual news as opposed to the commentators who never leave the studio but would have us believe they know everything about everything.


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