I am watching Fair Game on Showtime. Scooter Libby and Rove really screwed over Valerie Plame, didn’t they?
Yes, they did. Fully and intentionally. And they pretty much got away with it.
It’s not over yet…
Karma has big plans for them yet…
GREAT HAPPY TIME VIDEOS OF THE PRESIDENT…THOSE..HE DESERVES ALL THE TIME!
That guy is beyond despicable. Hey, I know what: he should join the clowns running for the Republican presidential nomination. He’ll fit right in.
These morans try to out-stupid one another. Why oh why would anyone vote republican?
I wonder who he believes High Priest Caiaphas is.
Seems like those in Congress do not know the basics of what THEIR job is and what the President’s job is. Guess they thought they could just get elected to Congress and have the President do their job so they could just get paid to do nothing.
I sent that bastard Rep. Kelly an email.
The only thing that makes Newt even less attractive, if that’s possible, is to see him give a speech with one of those headset microphone thingies on, to amplify his nuttiness.
That is all.
Yeah, I’ve noticed he’s way into the speechifier thing where ugly stupid idiots who think they have something to sell wear obnoxious headsets and strut the stage. I can’t think of anything more preposterous for that fraud. CREEP Extraordinaire.
You’re right – he’s like the guy with the British accent who sells the chopifier thing on overnight teevee – without the charm.
God help us if any Republican gets the WH (it won’t happen), house and senate. We can not let the permanately stupid, evil and dangerous be at the helm of this country ever again.
The ACA developments are making me very, very happy! We need to get Nancy that gavel again so she and PBO can accomplish more spectacular things. One of the most productive Congresses ever…..followed by the very worst.
I and others posted this earlier. It’s going around Twitter. I’m going to post it again for those who missed it. Single payer is on the way according to this article in Forbes.
Niiiiiice! Thanks for that, Sabreen.
This guy has a different opinion.
Thank you so much for this information. I have been trying to find a comprehensive list of the different parts of ACA showing the dates they all kick in. The info I have found is very basic and does not break it down into dates of when they kick in. Sometimes less info is not more as I think it would be useful to use the list to explain ACA to those who listen to the GOP but are not died in the wool Repubs. This info helps me but I am still trying to find the rest. Any help would be appreciated.
Couldn’t agree more, PJ.
Not only Valerie but damage to the CIA unit that was specificlally going after WMD’s. I’ve followed this a long time. From what I’ve read from ex cia , people died. It was presented as a revenge against her husbands column when in reality they took out the unit that was looking for Sadams non -existant WMD’s at the time they were looking for them during war time. Really bad stuff.
And now these se people that did this to Valerie have jobs at CNN and Fox, all the while, calling this president corrupt. Sigh!
I always thought the CIA would take care of it’s own in cases like this.
The Bush administration did a lot more damage to this country than the wars and all…
They also destroyed what were mostly country-first institutions such as the CIA by stocking them with beholding, ideological partisans…
They essentially stoked division and hostility within these establishments in a bid to control and exploit…
Got my Obama window decals today. Woot!
I saw that Priebus fool on Martin’s show today. He just exudes nastiness. Hope that was the first and last time I accidentally run across him. I wouldn’t “hang” with a creep like that in real life, so I’m definitely not going to waste a moment of viewing time on him again. They’ve all gone mad.
He is pure evil.
What a friggin liar. The man is disgusting.
Hahahahaha Chips your colloquialisms are hilarious! “Holy Smoley??!!” 😆
Happy Friday everyone…for all the TOD’ies in the San Gabrial Valley, I hope you survived the wind on Wednesday. I hope they can get everything cleaned up before Xmas. Prayers to all those who had serious damage or still without electric power.
I live in Scottsdale, AZ…my dad called me from Florida tonight to see if we had any of that bad weather:) Bless his heart. I probably SHOULD call my aunt on Balboa Island, cousins scattered all over SoCal, and friends in Fountain Valley to see if they’re ok…did certain areas get hit worse than others?
Yes mostly the San Gabrial Valley, just north of downtown Los Angeles. Pasadena. Altadena, and Arcadia was hit the hardest. Your cousins probably had some wind but no damage.
After Signaling Support, John Boehner Calls Tax Break For Middle Class ‘Chicken-Shit’
Politico reports that in a closed-door GOP meeting this morning, Boehner referred to an extension of the payroll tax holiday as “chicken-shit,” saying he wanted to tack on unrelated legislation favored by Republicans to make it palatable:
GOP leadership told its membership at a closed-door meeting Friday morning it would couple with the expiring tax provisions an easing of environmental regulations on boilers, selling broadband spectrum and paving the way for the controversial Keystone XL pipeline. […]
Speaker John Boehner referred to the package he’s putting forward as turning “chicken-sh — into chicken salad,” according to people attending the meeting in the Capitol basement Friday morning.
Translated, he’s going to pass President Barack Obama’s preferred tax cut, but he wants some skin from Democrats for it.
Nintendow, You look so sweet. What happened? No more ghost? dr
Boehner is going to try and tie a payroll extension vote to the Keystone Pipeline being allowed. I hope Pres. Obama tells him to take a flying leap. A one year extension for a 50 year polluter? And the payroll tax holiday is a GOP idea to begin with.
There really are no words.
Those are good words.
I’m sorry. I am not familiar with that word. lol.
Not only that but they are threatening to shut down the government again.
The Stupid started way back then. Then Sen Obama is incredulous about the GOP and their tire gauges gimmick and says: “they know they’re lying” and “it’s like these guys take pride in being ignorant” LOL. In the good old days before he was president when he could be this blunt about The Stupid.
I’ve been trolling youtube looking at Obama videos the last few hours which I haven’t done in years and can’t believe how many favorable videos there are of Obama AND the favorable comments below the video. Seriously!
I remember this townhall. I can’t wait until PBO start campaigning against the clown who wins the repug nomination.
Me too! When he begins campaigning in earnest; the republican party won’t know what hit them. That’s the thing about PBO; he doesn’t get mad. He just hits you where it counts with a deadly aim. Cannot wait. 🙂
Watching this town hall, one can only imagine how many one-liners and comeback lines he’s had to swallow with all the stupidity he’s been subjected to over these three years. He’s definitely got discipline!
Really? So glad to hear this. I will start watching them.
This Farewell from Herman Cain by Andy Borowitz is hilarious.
Funny:) If only! (Forever?)
The newly constructed Cheyenne River Health Center in South Dakota, is a 138,542 square foot facility that will provide health services for 9,300 American Indians. The hospital was built with $84.5 million from the Recovery Act, broke ground in May 2008 and is set to open in December. The facility replaces the former Eagle Butte Indian Health Services (IHS) Hospital, which was unable to meet the needs of the community. New staff quarters for health care providers are also being built as part of this project.
The Recovery Act has provided $500 million through the IHS for the construction of priority health care facilities, building maintenance and improvement, water and wastewater sanitation projects, the purchase of medical equipment and health information technology. IHS projects include, the replacement of the Eagle Butte Health Center and also the Norton Sound Regional Hospital in Nome, Alaska. The new facility in Nome will serve 10,000 Alaska Native spread across 44,000 miles. Together the projects have been funded with $227 million in Recovery Act funds.
Cleaning up contaminated groundwater at the Lowell, Massachusetts site of a former chemical plant has been accelerated as a result of $20 million in Recovery Act funds from the Environmental Protection Agency.
When Silresim Corporation went out of business in 1977, it left behind 30,000 decaying drums and large storage tanks filled with toxic chemicals, which leaked into the groundwater. The drums and tanks have since been removed, but state and federal officials have been working to clean up the contamination for almost 30 years.
Using advanced technology, which Recovery funds helped to buy, officials expect to remove more than 50 tons of chemicals from soil and water within nine months – a process that would normally take much longer.
Thanks for both of those, jovie….these are the kinds of things that NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT!
EXcuse me John Boehner…but I think you designated the wrong entity as chicken shit!
I watched portions of Hardball because Smerconish sat in for him today. He said early in the show that he would be commenting on the republican debate in the “Let me finish” segment”. I was impressed with what he had to say. I actually like Smerconish.
Wonder where Chris was…crying with Boner and Cantor?
Smerconish said Chris was out promoting his book. He basically said that the repuublican debates have become reality shows, while we have serious problems in this country.
I like him too. Much better than Tweety. I haven’t watched Tweety in weeks and weeks. Reading about him from you all is all I can handle. If I had known Smerconish was on today, I would have watched.
Here’s the video of Smerconish let me finish segment today.
Great commentary. If I can remember to remind everyone, we should all send positive email about Bashir, Smerconish and Rev Al tomorrow and next week. I think it makes a difference and it makes me feel great to send a compliment.
I like him, too. He is a straight shooter and gives President Obama mad respect.
Agree. Wish he’d take over Dumbball’s Hardball show.
That would be great! I don’t know how he would handle during his radio show and a TV show too. But if Reverend Al and Ed can do it I’m sure Smurck can too.
Wasn’t it just last week where someone here stated Smerconish had callers on his radio show spewing misinformation about PBO, and he, Smerconish, allowed them to go on without correction, and at times, agreeing with the callers?
And you know what, *COS*? I always did like Smirconish, he just appears to be a common sense sorta Guy 🙂 He’s far removed from Tweety
This little snippet from Benen:
* Domestic economy: “Manufacturing grew for the 28th straight month and faster than it has since June, a report showed Thursday. The Institute for Supply Management’s manufacturing index increased to 52.7 percent in November, up from 50.8 percent in October…. Any reading above 50 indicates expansion.”
This is great news about manufacturing.
IMPORTANT INFO to pass along. If you or someone you know has gone through foreclosure, nearly foreclosed on…other trouble with banks regarding housing…you need to rad and pass along. Independent auditors are looking into this, and if you meet certain criteria… monetary payback to you could be substantial.
By Jason Fekete
OTTAWA — Stephen Harper is expected to finally announce details of the Beyond the Border trade and security deal when he meets U.S. President Barack Obama at the White House on Wednesday.
The meeting will also provide the prime minister an opportunity to further discuss Canada’s interest in entering the nine-country Trans-Pacific Partnership trade group, which already includes the United States.
Canada, Japan and Mexico announced last month their interest in joining the TPP, which many observers believe could surpass the North American Free Trade Agreement in economic importance.
Canada and the U.S. have been for months been looking to finalize the Beyond the Border initiative, a bilateral trade and security agreement designed to better co-ordinate intelligence-sharing at the border and streamline cross-border trade.
What a great video …. what an uplifting, feel good, makes me smile all over video. Thank you!
Oh Chips, I can always come here in the evening and put myself at ease. Thank you for supporting our super, incredible PBO. At times it is tough. You help me get through those period. xo dr
hey with the Tramp trump ready to get back in the news, how about we take a trip down recent memory lane to the night of the White House stenographers’ Dinner: Grab a warm cuppa somethin’ then settle into a comfy chair:
Oh yes. That’s classic. I came home very tired a couple of weeks ago with no energy for anything. But I cracked a beer and settled in to watch the President demolish Donald Trump’s super sized ego (unfortunately, that’s an ego that won’t stay down for long). Felt bright and refreshed afterward.
I’m refusing to watch the stupid Donald hosted debate, but you posting this has put it in my head to watch this “best ever cspan video” instead. I plan to crack another beer on the night of the debate and listen to the President smack down Trump. Will not let the crazy Republicans waste my evening.
Thanks zizi. for posting this. 🙂
I’ll be joining you on that night. I’ll have a glass of wine at the ready. I’m so offended by Donald Trump and the way the media has continued to cater to someone who disrespected an honourable man, and the Office of the Presidency. That’s unforgivable. I’ll be staying far away from the debate, because I don’t want to reward bad behavior – and will enjoy a glass of wine in the process.
Let’s see…Trump handling a GOP debate…kiss of death for all of the participating clowns. Stick a fork in them they are DONE!!! Obama 2012 for sure now.
So, Romney staffers are going to attack Gingrich as being a flip flopper and in return, they hope this will inoculate him from being a flip flopper.
I know, I know, it’s all very Freudian. Lol!
I have a question for one/all of you smart people. I was listening to Randi Rhodes today and she was talking about the job numbers today for November. She was suggesting that people call in to conservative radio programs and challenge their B.S. She said there’s a lot more of us and that liberals read and research and know the truth and could challenge people like Rush Limbaugh. She was also saying, which I’ve heard elsewhere, that some people have stopped getting unemployment benefits, so they don’t count in the numbers. That they’ve basically dropped out of the numbers and that people (the media) will use that as an excuse for why the unemployment number went down.
What I want to know is why wouldn’t that be a factor; the fact that people have run out of benefits or stopped looking for work for why the unemployment number is lower.
I have a real heart for the unemployed. My husband got laid off twice in 2010. I know how hard it is and I applauded the President extending unemplyment benefits for as long as he did, knowing how excrutiating it must have been for those people to wonder if their benefits would be there from month to month.
A lot went to school, some may start their own businesses as well!
Randi said the real focus is the calls made to households directly because of course the doubting thomas’s would state oh but people dropped out of looking for jobs. In the household survey directly made to homes 1+million jobs were created in the past 4 months based on the this type of survey. Randi spoke about this in the 1st 5 minutes of her show on 12-2-2011.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is set to urge key European officials to take decisive action next week at a make-or-break summit to prevent a debt crisis from turning into runaway contagion.
Treasury announced Geithner will meet French President Nicolas Sarkozy, new Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti, and Spanish Prime Minister-elect Mariano Rajoy on the December 6-8 trip, which will include stops in Frankfurt, Berlin, Paris, Marseille and Milan.
At a briefing later, a senior Treasury official said President Obama had asked Geithner to make the trip and said he would be ready to offer insights and suggestions to the Europeans as they refine their own plans.
Ofa holding nationwide voter registration drive Saturday, here is my email I got—//
This campaign will have volunteers and staff on the ground in all 50 states — and we plan to grow to as many as 20,000 neighborhood teams across the country.
It’s an ambitious undertaking, and a big departure from ordinary political organizations. But we believe in a model of organizing where everyone who supports this campaign has an important role to play.
To build a campaign of this size, we have to start early. The work we’re doing in Florida is critical to build for the upcoming primary and the months after — and you should be involved if you aren’t already. Tomorrow — Saturday, December 3rd — we’re holding a training on how to register voters and bring some new people into this campaign.
Can you make it? Here are the details:
What: Tampa voter registration training
Where: Ybor City Office
1702 N. 14th Street
Tampa, FL 33605
When: Saturday, December 3rd
11:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m.
Registering voters is easy, so don’t worry if you’ve never done it before. We’re here to show you the ropes. And when you register voters, you’ll come home knowing you helped more people in your community exercise one of their most basic rights and have a say in the direction of our state and our nation.
The work we do now to register voters in Florida lays the groundwork for next November — and as we come together with our neighborhood team, we’re building the presence of this campaign in the part of those 50 states that we know best.
Let me know if you can make it to the voter registration training on Saturday in Tampa:
Florida State Director
Obama for America
This might be totally OT, but I saw the “heck in isn’t so” kinda of commercial this morning. It started off with all the wonderful things one could do on the Gulf Coast — Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Florida. Fish in these lovely waters, etc. Punch Line: commercial was brought to you by BP. Enuff said.
I’ve seen that same ad over the last couple of weeks. I’m not sure what to think of it. On the one hand, the people of the Gulf need to recover, so it’s a good thing. On the other hand, I don’t trust BP. Since I didn’t have plans to travel to the Gulf in the near future, it doesn’t really affect me, but I admit that I was tempted.
Can I ask a question? Is this a joke regarding Dumpy Trumpy hosting/moderating the next republican debate?
The debate will be on some unknown cable station.
US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta has urged Israel to “mend fences” with Turkey, Egypt and others in the Middle East to reduce its growing isolation.
In a speech in Washington, he said Israel was not entirely to blame, referring to an “international campaign” to isolate it.
Mr Panetta called on Israel to restart peace talks with the Palestinians.
He added that the US remained committed to Israel’s security and would not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.
“Unfortunately, over the past year, we’ve seen Israel’s isolation from its traditional security partners in the region grow, and the pursuit of a comprehensive Middle East peace plan has effectively been put on hold,” he said.
Israel’s concern over the Arab Spring revolts that have toppled several long-term authoritarian leaders in the region, including in peace partner Egypt, was understandable, he added.
But the changes in leadership offered an opportunity for Israel to improve regional security.
Netanyahu is an idiot. He never negotiated in good faith with PBO after PBO warned him that he better start cooperating or else Israel will be more and more isolated.
I guess Chris Hayes likes the fact that OWS goes after democrats and mic checks the President!
I’ve been watching also Jovie. Chris is making a LOT of people mad this morning. I’ve been on twitter tweeting about the show with other TODers & other sane Obamabots. Chris let Amy Goodman emoprog & PL extraordinaire of Democracy Now spew lies and more lies about PBO in terms of Climate Change. There was an opportunity for real discussion about Climate Change but oh no, Goodman who has NEVER liked President Obama since he won the Democratic primary in 2008 was allowed to rant on about how PBO is dropping the ball on climate change. How he’s letting oil companies screw the environment. How he’s never championed Green job, green tech or other climate change efforts. How he hasn’t pushed clean energy or any energy reform measures. I was like WTH? She never said anything about GOP blocking Climate Change bill in congress, she never said anything about the fact that under PBO our dependence on foreign oil has reduced, she never said anything about PBO making sure lots of money goes towards green jobs and green technology. She never said anything about PBO making sure that fuel and mileage efficiency standards on cars will be raised. Thank goodness Michelle Goldberg of Newsweek corrected her BS.
Then Chris seemed smug that OWS mic checked PBO and DCCC fundraisers and tried to compare OWS to the civil rights movement. I’m like are you freaking kidding me? The Civil Rights Movement? Ugh. Thank goodness Goldberg and Congressman Jerry Nadler corrected him by saying that they understand OWS’s cause, but they need to get focused and find a coherent message and stop bashing, protesting, and mic checking PBO and Dems who are waging a battle against the GOP on their behalf. As much as I DESPISE the teaparty, they got smart and made sure they corralled voters and gained a GOP majority in the House. If OWS wants things to change, how about occupying a damed voting booth, occupying congress or hey here’s a novel idea, occupy a voter registration drive and make sure PBO wins and Dems control both houses of congresses in 2012.
And then GE was all about Huntsman.
Chris Hayes tries to pander to firedoglake nonsense, whereby he loses AA support.
They must have statistics that day AA does not watch his show?
These “progressives” keep outing themselves when they claim to be dissatisfied with PBO yet seem to impressed with Huntsman who is inferior to PBO!
I doubt very that any of these shows make any attempts to capture AA viewership.
If OWS wants things to change, how about occupying a damed voting booth, occupying congress or hey here’s a novel idea, occupy a voter registration drive and make sure PBO wins and Dems control both houses of congresses in 2012.
Exactly. All of the protesting, rhetoric, and mic checks don’t mean a thing if people are not making their voices heard at the ballot box. I have a newsflash for ows – The main reason we are in this mess right now is that too many Americans sat on their arses and didn’t vote in the 2010 midterms. It’s not that complicated. I just don’t understand why ows hasn’t focused on their most powerful weapon – REGISTERING VOTERS. If they got their act together and started registering voters, it would scare the crap out of the politicians. Meanwhile, the GOP is actively trying to disenfranchise voters. Where is the outrage about that? And don’t get me started with the Republicans blocking the implementation of Dodd-Frank. Why not focus on that obstruction.
And about Amy “Blame Obama First” Goodman. When Chris Hayes teased that she was going to be interviewed, I prepared myself for the inevitable bashing of President Obama. I have never heard Goodman say anything positive about President Obama, ever. She makes it sound like President Obama is against climate change. When the issue of congress was brought up, she immediately goes to talking about the GOP presidential candidates. Unbelievable.
She is the type of delusional liberal that thinks Pres.Obama would get all he wants if he only tried hard enough or never compromised. They refuse to look at reality. If there are two parties in a negotiation and neither party compromises guess what? NO ONE gets what they want. This type of scenario may have worked out in their personal lives but Pres.Obama has 300 million people relying on him and a very small window to get anything done.
The liberal “elite” is so short-sided and stupid it makes me crazy. If , God forbid, the GOP regains control of the WH, gains more control of Congress and begins to implement its destructive agenda, sanctimonious liberals won’t admit any responsability. None. Nada.
They are as incapable of self-awareness as their radical counterparts of the right.
I think Amy Goodman and her ilk are probably what the author Bob Altemeyer calls “left-wing authoritarians”.
I do not like his show at all….
Who are those people at the table. To me they are just a bunch of know-it-alls. I want news…not their personal opinions.
Jerry Nadler was the only credible person there today. I liked when he said that the thing he learned this week that he did not know before was that his Democratic colleagues in the Senate willingly voted for tyranny in regard to the indefinite detention portion of the Defense Bill.
Is Jerry Nadler new to Congress? What did he think when those same people voted with Repubs to keep Gitmo open?
So, that video clip is great. Of course I didn’t see it until Saturday, but . . . The Cure is one of my favorite bands, and a lot of those clips I’ve never seen before. I think this pretty much sums up why the Republicans dislike him so much. They just can’t match him in any way. Is there any Republican president in memory who would have so many clips of being so sincere, calm, cool, and still able to get health insurance for everybody and eliminate the most notorious terrorist in history. And kill a fly with his bare hands.
A good read….some of you won’t like what he says about Rev. Al…but, aside from that….
What’s far more troubling is that you can attract a huge amount of support in this country precisely because you lack qualifications to be president. Such reasoning is, in effect, the raison d’etre of all so-called “outside-the-Beltway” campaigns of recent vintage. However, to fully grasp why inexperience, incompetence and outright stupidity has such an emotional hold on Republicans in particular, you have to understand a core principle of conservative orthodoxy: intelligence equates with moral relativism. Which is why, after twice-electing a genuine, but fatally corrupt, thinking person in Richard Nixon, the Republican Party moved away from its historically pragmatic moderation in search of morally doctrinaire ideologues. Naturally, this paved the way for conservative extremists, who, while short on smarts — or perhaps because they were short on smarts — stuck to “conservative principles” like maggots to rotting meat. As my late diehard conservative Republican mother told me when I asked how she could rabidly support such an obvious dullard as George W. Bush, “Because I don’t trust the smart ones.”
Fantastic article. Someone who has attempted to explain why Republican voters truly like idiots for candidates. I’m not sure it makes sense but what would make sense, really? It’s the best explanation I’ve seen yet. I disagree with the author on Al Sharpton, who, while more political and opportunistic than principled is pretty sharp actually. He could have mentioned our own Ken doll match to Mitt Romney, the infamous skanky John Edwards. All in all a good analysis of the hopelessly tragic, scary and nonsensical GOP.
I’m with you:) It has been very difficult for me to try and wrap my head around the rationale for any of this….but at least this guy tried! None of it makes sense to me…or why people vote against their own best interests. Fascinating…in a car accident kind of way.
Jeepers…now look at this!
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/dems_fight_to_save_bush_progra033879.php Like I said, makes NO sense.
CRAZY. And most of these GOP congressclowns will get reelected!
Chipsticks, get ready to cross off another clown from the Muppet list!!
While Gingrich might not become the next President because of edgy, combative demeanor, he has a decent chance of winning the Republican nomination precisely because of the same characteristics. This is because the Republican Party is not in a congenial mood. Stoked to a shrill and fevered pitch by one-dimensional rabble-rousers on Fox News, AM Radio, and in the Tea Party at large, who’ve all effectively branded Obama as a share-the-wealth Socialist (despite his compromises on tax cuts, environmental regulation, and Republican-inspired ObamaCare), the GOP base is not calling for a tall, affable statesman like their late, over-hyped B-movie actor Prez. If they were, the tall, wooden, perfectly coiffed former Massachusetts governor, Mitt Romney, would be the ideal Reagan stand-in.
Gosh…does Alex Witt think we’re stupid and don’t understand the point of her soapbox interviews with various msnbc personalities? Mort Zuckerman, who indicated he has been a Dem for “virtually” his entire life, just went on a tirade about his disappointment in the president’s leadership. He noted that Reagan and Tip O’neal were able to come together to make changes to SS. Gotta love a dem praising Reagan. This guy is a DINO. He’s looking for Reagan type leadership….but where’s Pres Obama’s Tip o’Neal? That doesn’t concern Zuckerman.
Is he a DINO? we have members of the left wing praising Ron Paul and Roemer more than they do Pres. Obama. And when they choose to go after Republicans they end their rants by saying its all Pres.Obama’s fault for allowing them to do what they do. Zuckerman doesn’t sound much different to me than commenters at the GOS.
MSNBC has jumped the shark…….They seem to only have on right wingers and far left loons these days.
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