President Barack Obama talks on the phone with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai from his vehicle outside the Jane E. Lawton Community Center in Chevy Chase, Maryland, Sunday, March 11, 2012. The President called to express his shock and sadness over the reported killing of Afghan civilians. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)
****
President Obama’s statement on the killing of 16 Afghan civilians by a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan:
“I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering. This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan. I fully support Secretary Panetta’s and General Allen’s commitment to get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible.”
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WH: “President Obama called President Karzai to express his shock and sadness at the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. President Obama extended his condolences to the people of Afghanistan, and made clear his Administration’s commitment to establish the facts as quickly as possible and to hold fully accountable anyone responsible. The President reaffirmed our deep respect for the Afghan people and the bonds between our two countries.”
****
More at the BBC - and here
White House.gov
This is for vc!
I’m back, and Df, THANK YOU for holding my place in line! :lol: :lol: It feels SOOO good to be greeted with such a thoughtful gift! If you could only see the big grin on my face. Thanks, cyber sib!
It’s a tragedy.
Yes, it is. The violence itself in the lives of these people who can’t seem to obtain lasting peace is awful enough, in addition it’s a tragedy that makes PBO’s & his team’s task that much more difficult.
Happy Birthday to meeeeee! :-P
Happy birthday PJ!!!!!!!
PJ, happy birthday. If I know how to do it, I would send you a big bouquet of love. Have a great day!!
Very Happy Birthday,PJ :) Hope the events of the day do not dampen your celebration.
(ugh. poor timing in expressing this sentiment. RIP to the deceased civilians.)
PoliticalJunkessa, it’s not poor timing at all - on a truly grim day like today, we need all the rays of happiness we can find.
Happy birthday PJ, love and hugs to you!
Thanks, Chips! ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
Happy Birthday, hope you have a wonderful year.
Happy Birthday. Enjoy your day!!!
Happy, Happy PJ!
Happy birthday
PJ! Happy Birthday TOD friend! :-)
Happy Birthday to YOU, politicaljunkessa …were you aware the predictive text on iPad brings up the tickley expression ‘politics hunkered’ when your screen name is typed in! Hilarious! Have a great day!
:LOL:
Happy Birthday PJ, hope you have a wonderful day.
Happy Birthday pj!
ME TOO PJ…GOD BLESS YOU!…:)…HAPPY,HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Happy birthday, PJ :)
Happy Birthday PJ - hope your day is going great so far!
Happy birthday PJ! Have a fantastic day and year :)
Happy Birthday PJ. ((((((((((((May lots of beauty be in your space today))))))))))))HZ
Ooo, PJ! Happy Happy Happy BIRTHDAY! Yay. ::Confetti::
Happy Birthday PJ!!!! :)
I hope you’ve had a lovely day PJ.. a very very Happy Birthday to you :)
A very Happy Birthday to one of my ‘favouritest’ sober sibling! Have a wonderful birth evening and best wishes for many more years, PJ!
Happy belated birthday PJ, hope is all you wanted…….
ooops, hope IT WAS all you wanted……
*~*~*~*~*~*THANK YOU ALL FOR THE LOVELY BIRTHDAY WISHES. I LOVE MY TOD FAMILY!!!*~*~*~*~*~*
Helloooooooooo Chipsticks!!!!!
What a tragic situation. It is so imperative that we (I mean our Canadian troops as well) get out of that country sooner rather than later.
The stuff just keep piling on.
This is indeed shocking and tragic. War is hell. I hope we can get out of there ASAP.
I don’t think we can get out of there ASAP. We have to make sure we get out in a carefully planned manner so that there is no harm done to our troops and the Afghans. But I do understand your sentiments in light of this horrific tragedy.
p.s. Happy Birthday PJ.
Happy Happy Birthday,,,,PJ..
What a powerful photograph this is. He carries the weight of the entire world. We MUST have his back, we MUST be there for him….as he has been there, always, for all of us. Bless you, Mr. President.
Amen!
agreed!
Man.
Well, 57 will know all about this ~ this word is not meant to be man, but to read Amen.
This incident is tragic……WAR is tragic
Happy Birthday PJ. Hope all your wishes come through.
God help us. I pray for those who have suffered a loss. Rest in peace.
14th!!!
LOL!! ;)
Don, I don’t think Df will mind if you stand on the podium in first position beside both of us. She is showing me how to share with those who are less swift. :lol: :lol:
From the reports I was hearing last night, the soldier seems to have suffered some sort of nervous breakdown. I just wonder how many deployments he’s had. If you keep sending soldiers into the meat grinder over and over, some will just break. Shellshock didn’t end with WWII.
Hi LL, did you see the address of the LA OFA headquarters that I posted?
Thursday, March 15, 2025 - 3 hours
Time(s):
Thursday, March 15, 2025 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM
Location: OFA California Headquarters 10401 Venice Blvd Los Angeles, CA 90034
Directions:
On the corner of Venice and Motor. The office is on the 2nd
floor above Coffee Bean and Subway.
Ok, I know exactly where that is. However, I get off at 6, and no way I can make it there before closing in West L.A. traffic. Poo. We SoCal TODers will just have to get together for drinks sometime soon.
Sounds like a good Idea LL. I met our lovely Tally and look forward to meeting GGail at the OFA office on the westside. I fortunately have a dentist appt at 3PM so it’s perfect timing. I suggested that any SoCal TOD’er wear a green carnation since there should be available due to St. Patricks day and PBO’s singing of Al Green’s “lets stay together”.
Green carnation sounds purrfect JoJo :-)
Count me in too as I can’t make it next week. I live south of LAX.
GGail, Bringing over my post from the last thread, I’ll be there as well. Thoughts and prayers with those impacted by the tragedy in Afghanistan today as well as strength for PBO.
“Hi GGail,
I rsvp’d for the OFA LA office opening and will be there as well; coming from Downtown so I hope the LA traffic gods are in good spirits on Thursday. I’ll be wearing my “it’s President THAT ONE to you!” button (watching Caribou Barbie and the Game Change last night, got me so riled up, I had to get that button back out), and PURPLE SHOES of course! :lol:
:) You’re going to have a great time!! We want an update!
Looking forward to seeing you there PurpleShoesLA, the TOD Delegation will represent. Also, are any of you going to the event today at Glendale Community College? It the volunteer training at 2:30PM to 5 or 6PM today. I will report back late tonight.
Hi PurpleShoesLA - so gooood to hear that you will be there!!!
Hi TOD’ers, I plan to be there too (@ the OFA Office Opening)…gotta find a green carnation or a name tag….. :) Is that definite how we’re identifying each other?
Hello all!! I will also be there as well!!! :-)
Yea!!!!! our TOD/SoCal numbers are growing!!!!!
Where’s Tally and HZ?????
Hi GGail, I am here. This is the second time that I have tried to post my comments explaining my reason for not being able to come to the OFA opening of the office in L.A. So I will leave it at this: I am in bed with awful pain and attacks, and I am scheduled for a battery of test for next week and another set the following week.
So I will not be able to attend. Plus, I would not be able to drive to L.A. because of my cardiologist’s medical restrictions placed on me. That I live with. However, one of my greatest hopes is that one day I will be able to meet my TOD family from the Cali area before or after the election. We can have an “After-Glow Evening” together, hopefully near Pasadena area. That is within my driving permission range. Plus,I love Pasadena.
So GGail, give everyone a big (((((((HUG)))))) for me, and I know you all will have a great time meeting together. I love you all so very much, and please pray for me as well. I am going to make it. I am strong ,and I am determined. HZ
Dear HZ, I am so sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. I understand your not being able to meet us next week and we indeed will plan for an “After-Glow Evening” near you.
You are in my daily prayers HZ.
Peace be with you :-)
GGail, I am so happy that you saw my comments. I love you for your kind thoughts, and I know that we all will meet. Thanks for considering me. I appreciate it so much. I will take care, and I do have faith and hope for the best in my tests. Thanks for your love and kindness. Love you all back so much,HZ
I can’t be there either HZ as I’m going to Canada for my dad’s funeral. I will be praying for your doctors to find out what is wrong. It would be great to see you. I love Pasadena and although I live south of LAX, I would drive there to meet everyone.
Betsy - we’re sorry you won’t be there also, but know that we are praying for your family during the loss of your father.
Betsy, I saw your comment, and I wanted to say something to you, but I did not want to invade your private space, however, now that you mentioned that it will be your father’s funeral, I feel free to express this to you.
I will hold you continually in my prayers and my thoughts during this time as you travel to Canada for your father’s funeral. Please know that you are being held up with many prayers, thoughts of kindness, comforting thoughts to you and your family, and lots of hugs. Please take your steps into this space as you so choose, but remember that your very sweet memories will help get you through this time.
Here comes the most sincere thoughts and emotions from my heart to yours, Betsy. I have been there just a few years ago. Here comes to you (((((((((((((((((( Lord, give Besty the most comforting angels surrounding her at this time.)))))))))))))))))))) Love you, Betsy.HZ
HZ, I felt your loving words to Betsy and they brought tears to my eyes.
Bless you HZ
{{{{{HZ}}}} a big hug to you hoping you will be feeling better and that there is nothing too serious in the tests that can’t be easily treated so you can join us. It would be great to meet in Pasadena since that’s where I live. I would even host an OFA Party and bring you here and take you home. Get well my friend, we need you.
Agreed. That is what angers me most about this kind of incident. A Republican Administration began this quagmire, left yet another mess that they created, to get out of. Far more difficult to do, yet never supported the troops properly to begin with…think body armor, stop loss, cutting benefits, not extending benefits, not giving money and care AFTER they came home….they talk a good game about support for vets, problem is that the facts don’t back the rhetoric.
This was bound to happen. The casualties of a war that is long overdue to be over.
O/T LL…but GGail was wondering if you’d be going to the LA OFA opening? Wants to meet up with all the CA TOD’ers :)
df, you are a wonder :-)
you showed up First for VC - who seems to be still eating breakfast and then you remember to support me in my effort to rally the CA TOD troops to the OFA Hdqt opening.
That’s the way my mommy raised me :) I have to say, that must be SOME breakfast! I had a bowl of Raisin Bran, and read while I ate….Let’s get after LL….he sure would want to be there if he can!
Opps! Didn’t see that LL had posted his response….sorry :) Damn traffic
:lol: :lol: No, no I came back after breakfast; a Florida orange, my quickie omelette (eggs, cheese, green pepper, onion, weiner), toast, and hot lemonade. I even read a little bit of ‘The Help’ while eating, cleaned the kitchen then hurried quickly back. However I left again in embarrassment when I found myself messing up the last thread with double postings. So Df, your holding me the first place spot was like a great big ‘Ah shucks, don’t worry about the mess you made. We still like you and we won’t tell Chips Chic!’ Thanks again, BFF! ;) VC
This has me thinking of the Gates of Janus in ancient Rome. The doors to the temple of Janus were open during times of war, and closed during times of peace. They were closed only a handful of times from the building of the temple during the reign of the semi-legendary King Numa to the adoption of Christianity by the Empire. I wonder how many times we’d have the doors closed in our history if we had our own Temple of Janus.
You are a deep thinker, LL :)
Janus also had two faces. One looks forward the other looks back. Thus we get January.
yes. to me it’s really not shocking.
Humans-and soldiers are humans- are asked to absorb a whole lot of crap,
and sometimes we lose it.
THERE CAN ALSO BE PTSD INVOLVED!
Indeed, LL! Also the kinds of horrific injuries that soldiers and civilians are subjected to are not only way beyond those of battlefield WWII, but surviving and recovering from such injuries must also take emotional as well as physical tolls. While I applaud the new initiatives re PTSD, perhaps we need more work in the area of pre-warfare stress disorder. How do you adequately prepare people for hell?
I’m also wondering about the wisdom of having hatemongers like Rush Limbaugh—apparently in the name of free speech— push their xenophobic, homophobic and woman-hating wares on stressed-out and vulnerable service members. It’s counter-intuitive to do so. I remember the positive reinforcement—well, at least on the civilian side—of PSA’s during WWII; they were even a part of the regular run of radio entertainment. This is not to deny the propagandizing film shorts contracted from Frank Capra et alia to produce their stereotypical representations of “the enemy.”
Anyway, just an incipient train of thought.
Thank you for posting that second paragraph. How much does anyone bet when they release the photos of the soldiers from this incident, they will look very much like the soldiers from the peeing incident. While rush is enlarging his personal wealth using a highly addictive drug cocktail of hate, fear, and anger to keep vulnerable, at-risk, uneducated, uninformed poor whites tuned in, he is destroying this country and making civil political discourse almost impossible. Drug kingpin rush, FOX HATE NEWS, reality celebrity Palin and others are engaged in domestic terrorism. What does that mean? Their hate speech has incited violence against others, whether here or abroad.
With that said, rush is about to go down. Yes, he will be off the air by the end of March, relegated to one of the hate corners on the Internet. But when I say rush is going down, I mean he will find himself in a black hole so deep, he’ll end up in another universe. I expect it will happen some time in late July or early August AFTER the GOP has selected their presidential nominee. Unfortunately, when rush goes down, the whole Grand Ole Party is going with him because there will be NO way, absolutely NO WAY to spin whatever it is the media has on him.
That was my first thought LL. Repeated deployments must be play terrible tricks on ones brain. I play for the victims and their families and also for the soldier who broke under the pressure.
LL, I have a niece, two deployments to Iraq, a nephew, one deployment to Afghanistan & two to Iraq, who both came home physically intact and they seem both reasonably sane but they are changed. They have been changed in some subtle way that those of us who don’t have their experience will ever understand. They still laugh, hug, cry & hug again but they are different now…changed by war & experiences that will forever shape how they live out their lives.
‘they have been changed in some subtle wa’y
Indeed AG, how can you face the reality of war and not be changed.? I have never been to war, and I have yet to meet a local veteran who glorifies war and is longing to go back. [McCain in an exception, but as was pointed out yesterday, HE doesn’t have a life. Willard can tout war because he won’t have to go and neither will his loved ones.]
This killing makes me sick to my stomach and I hope the person who did it gets prosecuted to the full extent of military law. One person can undermine a whole mission and create tragic consequences for a nation. I hope the commanders in Afghanistan give greater scrutiny to those who start to demonstrate signs of mental imbalance or a high level of rage. There are going to be ugly times ahead in Afghanistan and the sooner we can get out of there, the better. This is also one more glaring reason whey we cannot push our military into more wars right now as those fanning the flames of Iran are attempting to do. It is no excuse for murderous behavior to simple recognize that our ytroops (and the American people) badly need an interval without war. .
Very good point about not pushing this frayed military personnel into more wars. It’s enough already.
‘I hope the commanders in Afghanistan give greater scrutiny to those who start to demonstrate signs of mental imbalance or a high level of rage’
A version of this thought came to mind when I first heard this story. It left me wondering if commanders would be able to move these persons out, or neuter them, quickly enough to avoid catastrophe. Also, what happens if more started showing those signs whether genuinely or in an attempt to be sent back? This is all so complicated.
The first thing I thought when I saw the picture of President Obama is ‘they don’t make it easy for him’. I’m so sad for the victims and their families of this violence. Just when the domestic issues seem to be improving, the President gets hit with foreign policies issues getting more negative. The Republicans calling for war in at least two more countries in the ME. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders. I am so thankful that he has extremely strong shoulders.
Nothing has ever been easy for PBO, Sabreen, except for the love he inspires. He will rise to this challenge as he has to all the challenges he’s faced with dignity and courage. I want people in this country to get down on their knees and thank God this man is there to handle these horrible setbacks. The idea of any one of the shallow idiots running on the Republican side dealing with challenges of this magnitude chills me to my marrow. None of them would have the calmness, thoughtfulness and decisiveness to meet this new crisis. Romney would dither so much about what to do next and how many weather vanes to consult that it would be months before he figured out what to say, let alone do.
Perfectly said, Jackie. I could not agree more. Thank you for this perfect statement.
You’re so right, Jackie. Just yesterday, I heard the beginnings of a statement (before I changed the station) from Gingrich, once again attacking the President for apologizing for the Koran burning. We have to thank God that none of those irresponsible fools are in the Oval Office.
Jackie, thanks for your well stated comments. They are so on point. He certainly has the weight of the world on his shoulders, and we must continue to lift him up with our thoughts and prayers for wisdom in the very difficult times.HZ
Gingrich disqualifies himself as president with this statement alone. He is saying that we would put all of the armed forces in Afghanistan at risk for the sake of his personal pride, even if the generals on the ground asked for an apology. He is saying he would prefer a Middle East conflagration with all the attendant loss of life to make a point. These are the words of a fool, not a serious presidential candidate, which, of course, he is not.
Yes, I know he’s never had it easy. What I said is a figure of speech. I just meant that I wish he could have had a breather before some other catastrophic or almost catastrophic event unfolded. Over the last 3+ years, he has handled each event, whether man-made or nature with clear eyes, focus and intelligence, unlike I’ve seen in my lifetime.
This is why President Obama needs to get the heck out of Afghanistan ASAP. The right will use this as an instance of him embracing a conflict that liberals hated (Afghanistan surge), and witness ALL of the emoleft pacifist pundits this week to snivel and bloviate about how President Obama’s foreign policy is NO different than Bush!
those people did not listen to then-candidate Obama who openly campigned on focusing on the war in Afghanistan
Except, the GOP frontrunner is saying that this President should not announce the date for troop withdrawal!
Exactly. Who are the emprogs going to turn to-the one who wants to not only remain in Afghanistan indefinitely, but also wants to start another war in Iran.
Just my opinion but President Obama record speaks for itself, and the Afghan people know the President’s position(Iran, Syria) and will not judge the U.S by the actions of a few. U.S is working with NATO, and that is very unlike the Bush’s administration , and that is helping the image of the U.S. There is no coincidence there has been a reduction in attacks against U.S. Soldiers. Keep praying for the President, he is a Great Compassionate Leader.
The President is trying to get out of Afghanistan, which is why he announced the troop withdrawals and focusing on development efforts. Fortunately, he’s trying to do this responsibly, knowing how dangerous it will be if Pakistan gets overrun by radical forces - especially with those nuclear weapons. He’s also trying to leave the Afghan people a reason to resist growing poppies, which create the drugs that fuel the terrorist causes. All that takes time. It might now work, but I’m glad he’s trying. It will be much harder to contain Afghanistan if there’s no reason or ability for the people to fight off the forces that seek to corrupt them. But, none of this can happen overnight.
And remember, the GOP are the ones who wanted to never end the war in Afghanistan and they complained when he announced the troop withdrawals.
This
Theo, I agree. We can’t over react because pulling out of the country in haste will do more harm than good. We have set a date and are working toward it and I trust PBO to do everything in his power to ensure an orderly withdrawal. He has to leave the Afghanistan people with the sense that they are empowered and capable enough to protect their own country. The last thing he wants to do is make them feel abandoned because things got tough for us. He’s playing these cards just perfectly. This killing is a tragic setback, but PBO will forge ahead.
Of course, if GW Bush has done his job and not withdrawn our troops from Afghanistan at a critical moment we wouldn’t be in this mess right now. But the big money interests wanted Iraqi oil more than they wanted to prevent terrorists groups from growing in Afghanistan.
exactly theo67
Thank you for THIS! Your post shows the complicated nature of the Afghan war. There are many, many moving pieces.
As if the President doesn’t have enough on his plate this tragedy occurs. First it was burning their holy books now this? The violence had just started to calm down. It is time to bring the soldiers home. We can do no more there, but cause greater harm. The majority of our fine soldiers will pay for the actions of the few that snapped. Women and children…civilians….were murdered. That is not who we are.
Happy Birthday, PJ.
One good thing about this is that Muslims know that Obama is a compassionate man and a friend. Therefore they trust he didn’t order this in any way.
Every single person in Congress and Every single NeoCon Warmonger and Every single media pundit and Every single American needs to watch : The Wounded Platoon……to see what happens to our soldiers …. I cannot support any more War…..not ever.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/woundedplatoon/
If nothing else….just look at the portion ” The Platoon Roster “.
Linda-I’m totally with you. Unfortuately, the war mongers, media pundits and Republicans in Congress could care less about the welfare of the troops. They like the benefit of wars to their defense industry buddies and it makes them feel macho when there’s fighting going on. People, especially the people who sign up for the military, are just cannon fodder. I will never in my life forget when people lobbied Rick Santorum for better equipment for our troops in Iraq because they were being needlessly put in harms way. Ricky’s response: they “volunteered” for this, so the can take what they get. Heartless, soulless horse’s ass.
The GOP disregard for the health, safety and welfare of the troops is breathtaking - from sending the troops into harm’s way without proper armor, to never bothering to see the return of the bodies of the fallen troops, to insufficiently funding their mental and physical care post-combat, to leaving office without a backwards glance at the many thousands of troops left in harm’s way, to this comment from Santorum. They should never get near the title “Commander-in-Chief” ever again.
If we do pull out of Afghanistan sooner it won’t be because of a violent situation. That’s just not his style. I’d imagine he’d rather leave because it’s safer not because we were run out because of violence. But this entire situation is a mess and it’s been that way for a while.
I agree with you, Jessica. While this is a great tragedy, we (and PBO) cannot let the actions of one very disturbed individual (or a small group of such people) dictate our foreign policy. We have a timeline for withdrawal, one that was presumably put in place for good reasons, involving our national security interests as well as the interests of the people of Afghanistan. Unless those reasons are no longer in place, or other realities have developed that outweigh those reasons, we should stick to the timeline. It will be painful, though.
agreed Jessica.
Understanding the set backs but I am confident that when our troops it will be responsibly. That is the right thing to do.
as POTUS says the events in Afghanistan are saddening, tragic and shocking and our condolences go to the people who lost loved ones.
humble request: please wait for the facts to come out to determine what in the world caused the US soldier to use his weapon in such tragic and heart breaking way.
I do not know what is going on but I am willing to wait for the answers. I can only say that thank God President Obama is in charge because he will do the right thing - I completely trust his judgment and empathy
yes.
#PRESSON
Good God have mercy. Just watching game change, you guys dodged a bullet in Palin, scratch that, In fact we all did ,. She’s even worse than I thought.
In_deed, the entire world dodged an incomprehensible catastrophe had McCain/Palin been elected.
#PRESSON
tomorrow for people who worked on the 2008 race, with an apparent eye toward making sure everyone who was involved back then is still connected.
“Anyone feeling nostalgic for 2008?” wrote Jeremy Bird, the Obama for America national field director, in an email to alumni of the ’08 campaign about a call tomorrow evening.
“Jim Messina will give us a bird’s-eye view of our progress, dig down into some of the outstanding work going on in the states, and talk about what we’re doing differently,” the email said. “We’ll also talk about ways you can get involved with the campaign and grow the organization we started together more than five years ago.”
“As we head into the general election, it’s up to us to protect everything we worked for in 2008 — and keep up the momentum,” he wrote. “Wherever you are now, you’re still an important part of this work.”
http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/
Sometimes I feel as though we are torturing a person in asking them to be our President. What extreme problems they are asked to face and solve! In some ways not winning a second term would be better for his and his family’s health and well being BUT WE NEED him there to steer the ship in the correct direction (notice I didn’t say RIGHT?). From recent rhetoric from the Right we know it would be far worse than worse with them getting back in charge again. We need someone with intellect, moral fiber, in touch with the American people, that goes against the strong corrupt ways that surround him, and surrounds himself with the best consuls rather than just those that got him there. The best WE can do is do our best to get him re-elected and pray very hard for his protection, guidance, and good counsel. We also need to get a supportive Congress in so his visions can be ascertained.
Gingrich said this Morning we should just leave Afghanistan.
Notice, we have not heard from Robney and his Hawkish ways!
Gingrich is full of it. He knows perfectly well that there is a timeline that’s being adhered to. If PBO came out tonight and announced he were declaring victory and pulling out ALL the troops by the end of this week, Gingrich would be the first one to publicly oppose the decision.
Yup. Gingrich is also an opportunist. He sees all the calls from peace-loving folks to “pull out now!” and is using that to undermine the President.
What do Gingrich want, for us to leave Afghanistan, so we can invade Syria and bomb Iran. War is not pretty, it’s dam ugly. I know nothing about what is going on,so I will trust President Obama to do the right thing.
Jove, Romney still has a few hundred weather vanes to check before he says anything. His own brain is empty, so he’s looking around for a good substitute.
Obama Grandmama, you spoke what I have thought on many days. However, we know as you so beautifully stated, we need him. So our prayers, meditations, and goodness in our thoughts going out for him are so important. It is a powerful space to be in when we all come together with this kind of energy for POB.HZ
We ate not going to pullout of Afghanistan in the middle of election year.
But, we can change strategy, to a more counter terrorism strategy, a lot less Troops!
And it will not happen before the May NATO summit!
Just saying.
Absolutely right on, Jovie
My heart is broken at all those innocent Afghani’s (the majority who were children) who were murdered in their sleep. May we show them a transparent and just legal system,
It wouldn’t surprise me if PBO’s hair turned snow white with worry. On one hand, after 10+ years, we cannot allow Afghanistan to revert to a place where extremists can congregate and consolidate their plans and tactics, on the other hand we seem to be accomplishing little in light of the $$$ and human treasure spent.
IMO, PBO’s choices are about picking the least bad one. While I know he’s up to the task, we also need to be cognizant that the right will spin his decisions as bad for America.
I agree with you. It was awful to hear about this. Especially the 9 children. PBO is the best person to handle this terrible tragedy. But I am also concerned that someone in the US will try something here to get revenge. We have already had attempts in the US but they were set ups and thwarted. My prayers to the victims families. :(
This scene from Star Wars: Episode II came to mind:
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THEY CAN’T HOLD THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES!
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/03/11/442129/mccain-obama-war-iran/
This old man needs to seek a retirement home, he continues to praise Palin and show a complete alienation from reality. He just seems angry that he lost to “That One” and is unable to cope with nor accept that fact.
Seriously Nin.. He is living in his Own Private Idaho. I read somewhere this morning that they thought McCain had no life outside of politics and I think that is true. I have no idea what goes on in that old man’s head.
Trust me, neither do the rest of us. (know what goes on inside that man’s head.) He’s becoming more and more of an irrelevant disgrace.
A brain scan would likely show a massive amount of empty space, connections which have died off, wilted lettuce.
He pretty much admitted that in the movie last night when he was describing what happened to his Grandfather and father after they left service.
He is terrified …
All the buzz was that Julianne Moore’s performance was too sympathetic. I think it was Ed Harris’s portrayal that was too kind. McCain cared about nothing but winning with a complete disdain for women. It was his choice of Palin that emboldened the tea party and to this day he’s saying she was competent to be president. It borders on treason.
I had an interesting phone call while I was helping my sister. My friend from Chicago called. she is catholic (as am I) and is very active in her church - has been since a child. This morning she encountered a visiting Deacon who in front of her and her priest started spouting off all this very right wing stuff about BC and how women need to be controlled and they need to be more submissive to their husbands and THEN the priest let this yahoo give the homily.
My friend is now firmly voting for PBO and what’s more her mother who is OLD SCHOOL Catholic is very unhappy with what this man said. And I think that if she’s unhappy then there’s a whoooole mess of women her age and experience that are in the same boat. They can be persuaded I believe. I think the Repubs are doing their very best to help President Obama win. Even though I am not going to take it for granted and I’m working my tukus off, I just want to take a moment to thank the Clown Car Crazies for their service to our President. Thankyou old, white, male RWNJ’s everywhere.
I had a long discussion about this with one of my Catholic friends who is the mother of two girls, 13 and 17. She said if it wasn’t for the kids going to parochial schools she would have walked out of the church after Cardinal George’s lying letter a few weeks back. Her husband is a staunch Catholic and an alleged libertarian. I say alleged because he won’t do a damned thing for himself, and I don’t consider that taking personal responsibility. Anyway, I asked her how she is handling these discussions with her girls. She’s raising them to be independent thinkers but how can not all of this collide?
She had two high risk pregnancies and almost died both times (both girls were preemies). Her doctor, who belongs to her parish, insisted that her husband get a vasectomy. She cannot take birth control because of blood clot issues. And he refused! For years! He finally did it because we all ganged up on him. (she is one of 6 sisters and all of her sisters and her mother ganged up on him). I remember saying to him, “If she dies, who is going to shovel snow for you?” Yeah — he’s a real libertarian, isn’t he?
My point: I’ve seriously had it with men thinking they can dictate what women do with their bodies.
I agree with your point - it almost feels surreal to me to even be talking about this. Like 50 years just never happened. I mean next the GOP’s going to be talking about whether or not women have their voting rights repealed.
a4alice, I totally agree. I would have predicted many things things this election might be about, but I wouldn’t have imagined in a million years that the GOP would be so profoundly stupid as to focus on contraception.
We’re fighting. We’re fighting for the personhood of women. It’s indeed surreal. You have a bunch of men who are using religious freedom as a club to subjugate women. These same men don’t care about foreclosed churches, or the church’s belief in health care. It is about taking away personhood of women.
Amen to that! Like I always say, these men are quick to lay blame at the feet of the woman…we are burdened with 100% of the responsibility for 50% of the equation! Because, funny…Last time I checked, I didn’t GET PREGNANT BY MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is that ok? It’s NOT!
Amen 57andFemale.
And cue the right wing once again saying “Obama apologizes to and bows in front of the Muslims” in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…
nintendowii10, these same Republicans who are running their mouth, bow down and apologize to Rush Limbaugh. They kiss Rush fat butt all the time.
OMG…you are so right anniebella!!!
Bull’s eye, anniebella.
Anniebella - you hit the nail on the head with that comment!
You are absolutely right and I want them to keep bowing until election day. We need 300 Dems in the House and 70 in the US Senate so we can get the American Jobs Act passed.
President Obama and his administration are dealing with a challenging problem, racist white males in the military. He got rid of their leader after that article appeared in the Rolling Stones. Now they have to ferret out the individuals who are still operating or going rouge as Domestic Terrorist Palin would say. This is an internal US military operational problem. In the future, they need to use multiracial/multiethnic special forces teams instead of all white teams, which are more likely to hold klan like attitudes and beliefs and act on them. The Defense department can also use sophisticated electronic technology that allows them to monitor both the speech and behavior of these special forces and their support personnel in real time. And I am not talking about any type of external electronic device.
Are all special forces white? I didn’t know that.
No, all special forces are not white but a special forces team may be all-white. If you take a look at the reports on other instances, you will see the team members involved in those incidents were white. In one incident, we see special forces team members (it was not all members) urinating on the dead bodies of insurgents. One of the men involved, snaps a couple of pictures and passes it around ELECTRONICALLY. Then, there’s a white marine who has over 4,000 FB followers and has publicly stated he will not follow President Obama’s military orders - you know his commander in chief, which is a court-martial offense. This is a problem.
So absolutely awful! Heard about it on Alex Witt. Was really beyond upset.
I’m now watching & listening again to Red. White & Blues, as I clean home, do the drunge work. TG for DVR.
You might enjoy this article in today’s NYTimes - Just makes me wonder what took these women so long !
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/us/politics/centrist-women-tell-of-disenchantment-with-gop.xml
I know it was very powerful - I think we are going to see a lot of women vote for PBO because of the GOP’s stupidity. I say good.
I understand the sentiment of the tweets and certainly agree, The war should end as soon as possible. But I am also disturbed by such tweets because if it were possible to end the Afghan war like yesterday the President would have done so. Most people assume the war we see is the war we’re fighting. I think it is much more complicated than that. Apparently, there have to be some things in place before the visible Afghan war can come to an end. I think supporters should leave the foreign policy stuff ALONE!! There’s the public foreign policy. Then there’s the real foreign policy which we know nothing about and shouldn’t, Leave it alone.
I don’t think the slaughter of Afghan women and children had anything to do with battlefield fatigue, e.g. nervous breakdown. I don’t see any possibility of a war with Iran - no possibility at all - not going to happen - but it does help to fill up a 24 hour news cycle - fear mongering to the masses. Any help we give to Syria, we won’t know about it until it’s done, which is one of many many reasons I love my President!! He runs one tight-lipped national security ship :)
Absolutely spot on idon…
May I add: Dear Mr. President, we who love you understand somewhat the magnitude of the task at hand, and we will continue to pray for your guidance to do what is necessary and right. You have our deep commitment to making life better for the greater good. Thank you, and May God Bless you in this difficult time.
Pamela, When you say: “Dear Mr. President, we who love you understand…”
I understand your appreciation, and share your support for PBO esp. during these trying times. Also, I would add that because some people are asking for him to end the war in Afghanistan asap, and not to start another one in Iran or Syria, etc does not mean that they love him or support him or appreciate any less all the great work he has done to keep us all safe here, at home, and abroad. They’re just being open and honest with him, and from what I’ve seen about PBO over the last three years—he would expect nothing less from all of us. As he has said on many occasions, he’s the President of the Untied States of America.
Thank you, defytheodds, yes, I know.
One Love! :)
‘…They’re just being open and honest with him, and from what I’ve seen about PBO over the last three years—he would expect nothing less from all of us…’
The standard and overused line many dubious folks especially the perpetually dissatisfied PL invoke and hide behind to attack, question and nitpick President Obama…
defy….
i would say…that there will always be those who feel that they need to push the President…one way or the other….i continue to pray that the Creator grants him the wisdom and the courage to make the right decision….
Thank you, Pamela.
AMENNNNNNN!!
he IS ending the war. Responsibly.
Great news, America! Some of the dumbest people in the country are leading your nation, according to Speaker of the House John Boehner.
“We got some of the smartest people in the country who serve here, and some of the dumbest. We got some of the best people you’d ever meet, and some of the raunchiest. We’ve got ‘em all,” he said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal.
He also touted his own achievement in Congress
“There’s nobody who tried harder last year with the president to do the right thing,” he said. “There’s nobody who walked further out on a limb than I did to try to get him to do the right thing.”
Boehner’s comments referred to last year’s contentious debt talks. The months-long saga resulted in a bitter struggle between Democrats and Republicans, as well as between Obama and GOP leaders. Obama once blamed Boehner for the talks falling apart after the Speaker walked out in the middle of a meeting.
As Politico reports, Boehner has been facing serious backlash from fellow Republicans who have recently vowed to veto his massive highway bill.
Boner is a loser, end of story. It’s about time his own started taking vows against his agenda.
FU, Boner! You need permanent vacation!
Mr. Speaker sounds like Sarah-was he drinking or something? Sarah is that you?
John Boehner is the sorriest speaker ever. Can’t wait till Nancy take back over.
Anniebella, did you forget about Newton Leroy?
But the thing is Bill, Newt got shit done. Messed up shit. Insane shit. But he wasn’t lazy (he is now, but that’s for another discussion). Boehner is the laziest Speaker of the House it has ever been my misfortune to witness. What can he point to as an accomplishment? Oh yeah……..longer weekends and vacations for he and his merry band of clowns.
Very true UT, Newton Leroy did get things done with his Contract on America, but to me he was and is a much worse humanoid. The Orange Man spends his time working on his tan and golf game while NLG spent his spare time bonking staff members.
“NLG spent his spare time bonking staff members.” :)
Bill yes I did forget about Newton Leroy, well it’s a tie. Boehner hasn’t been run out just yet, like Newt was.
Our office has just seen the news on the shootings in Afghanistan by an American Soldier(s) and the reaction here was of anger towards the United States. It is like that because colleagues are still furious over the last incident of the quran/koran burning by American soldiers just over a week or so ago, where as a result, locals sought revenge by desecrating graves…… and people here are pissed that our NZ soldiers graves were caught up in Americas mess.
So now the attitude towards the U.S is shifting to a more negative view…. and all the hard work that President Obama has put in, to repairing and strengthening foreign relations is being strained by the actions of a few there.
I pray things will get better for this President #PressOn
Thanks for the update, NZ…may cooler heads prevail to find a way forward….not in anger.
President Obama will find a way forward - his plate just keeps getting heaped on though that’s for sure. Hmmm. Hey anyone want to light a candle for him?
here’s the link:
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=PBO
Thanks a4alice. That’s the first time I did that. I’m not religious but I wanted to send good thoughts to President Obama - what a difficult time. He might now have enough success with our military now to go against the Pentagon’s hawkish ways. The fact that we are still in Afghanistan is one reason I believe that the end of the Iraq war was less momentous here in the US that what it could/should have been.
Thank you NZ for this report. I imagine that President Obama and SoS Clinton are hearing from leaders from around the world about this tragedy. We all must pray for guidance and wise counsel.
This whole incident is very heart breaking and infuriating. Are the people pushing for endless war watching this? Children and adults who wanted no part of this are being killed by foreign troops. This is why President Obama keeps saying this is not a game.
It’s time to bring our boys home. Do it tomorrow. Do it next week. I don’t care, but have ‘em home by Christmas, Mr. President. We need to end this war today. Please, please, please end this war.
+ 1,000,000,000,000
I understand your sentiments Chipsticks and Drunken Irishman but we are not privy to the national security briefings that PBO receives everyday. I understand the clamors for withdrawal right now! But we have got to remember the imminent threat of Pakistan unraveling all the progress - however slim - that we have made. If PBO had withdrawn from Iraq in response to every violent attack from the American or Iraqi side or every senseless and horrific tragedy, we would have left Iraq in a half-cocked manner and the mess that would have unraveled after our leaving would have been monumental. Afghanistan is even more of a quagmire than Iraq. It is a thousand times more complicated and complex and requires a very careful fine tuned, logical touch. Not an emotional one. Remember that PBO has already moved up our withdrawal date to late 2013 - mid 2014 and that was guided by facts, national security briefings, monitoring the situation on the ground, and taking all perspectives into consideration. In addition to that, this is an election year. You cannot just enact an abrupt withdrawal without months and months and months of briefings and plans. How do we leave? What time do we leave? What contingent will be the last to leave? Have we resolved relations with the Taliban? Have we come to an understanding with the Taliban? Have we made sure that the government of Afghanistan won’t succumb to Pakistan and support their nuclear weapons strategy? Have we made sure that the Afghani soldiers are well equipped and well trained? All these and many more questions need to be resolved before we begin yelling “LEAVE AND LEAVE NOW! MR. PRESIDENT!!!!!” Remember, Afghanistan is a very complicated and complex issue that cannot and must not be responded to with emotional reactions. That is not wise and it is not safe. It does irreparable damage to our troops and the Afghans.
I feel you big time on this …UT….
My worry about Pakistan is great….the world and the US have grave concerns and questions about whether or not…Iran has nuclear weapons…..however we knowwww that Pakistan has nuclear weapons….
Mercy…mercy….
Presssssssss ON!
UT thanks for this sensible post!
Thank you UT for a very thoughtful commentary! I agree with everything you wrote. I’ve said it before but I will say it again, I am so impressed with your depth and understanding of the issues, as well as the realism you bring to difficult subjects.
Beautifully stated.
UT. I am with you. Cutting your losses and leaving is not an option. PO set the timeline, the planning is already in place and it will happen as scheduled.
Leaving now would be irresponsible. That is not who we are and thankfully that is not the type of leader we have today.
Thank you UT. This thing is not that simple.
Trust President Obama to do the right thing. We didn’t just vote for him cause he was cute, or sexy, or good looking, has a lovely family,is black. Trust him to do the right thing.
You’re right UT, and I know you can’t form policy in response to days like these, it has to be measured and not an emotional reaction to events, no matter how horrific they are - we learnt that from the insane invasion of Iraq after 9/11. And I’d be pretty certain no one would prefer to be out of Afghanistan more than PBO. I hoped that the withdrawal would be speeded up after bin Laden’s death, it just seemed like that was the ‘mission accomplished’ opportunity, but I assume, like everyone, this is all about Pakistan, and I can understand that reasoning. I do trust PBO’s judgment, completely, I just wish - again, like everyone - it could all be over, the human cost is staggering.
I agree with you UT
Absolutely spot on UTAustinliberal…
For someone so young your wisdom, awareness and clarity is not only phenomenal, but infinitely reassuring, inspiring and keeps intact my faith still in a few smart, steady people getting it…minimizing my irritation with the naysayers and perpetual hand-wringers…
The future is very bright as long as we have even just a few more people like you…
Great post and spot on! Thank you :)
I dvr’d martin bashir’s shows last week. Watching them now. I really like him. I am going to continue taping his shows. He seems to be the adult on MSNBC daytime.
Every talk show host should watch Bashir’s program to see how it’s done. It’s smart, fun, entertaining, great guests, great music, and devoted to exposing all the hypocrisy and to exposing the truth.
Who knew Dennis Kucinich was so anti-choice? http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/03/11/its-not-kucinichs-wackiness-its-his-fecklessness/#more-97496
ABL (Angry Black Lady) included this part of an article in her post:
“One thing you won’t find on Kucinich’s website […] is any mention of his opposition to abortion rights. In his two terms in Congress, he has quietly amassed an anti-choice voting record of Henry Hyde-like proportions. He supported Bush’s reinstatement of the gag rule for recipients of US family planning funds abroad. He supported the Child Custody Protection Act, which prohibits anyone but a parent from taking a teenage girl across state lines for an abortion. He voted for the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which makes it a crime, distinct from assault on a pregnant woman, to cause the injury or death of a fetus….”
“He voted against funding research on RU-486. He voted for a ban on dilation and extraction (so-called partial-birth) abortions without a maternal health exception. He even voted against contraception coverage in health insurance plans for federal workers—a huge work force of some 2.6 million people (and yes, for many of them, Viagra is covered). Where reasonable constitutional objections could be raised—the lack of a health exception in partial-birth bans clearly violates Roe v. Wade, as the Supreme Court ruled in Stenberg v. Carhart—Kucinich did not raise them; where competing principles could be invoked—freedom of speech for foreign health organizations—he did not bring them up. He was a co-sponsor of the House bill outlawing all forms of human cloning, even for research purposes, and he opposes embryonic stem cell research. His anti-choice dedication has earned him a 95 percent position rating from the National Right to Life Committee, versus 10 percent from Planned Parenthood and 0 percent from NARAL.”
AND YET…Pres.Obama maintains the status quo for minors on the morning after pill and the SAME PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP KUCINICH claimed Pres.Obama was joining the right in the war on women.
Same thing with the sainted Russ Feingold. Look at his record. checkered, at best.
Thanks for the link, gobrooklyn. I bookmarked it.
It always boils down to the record. He’s all talk and no action for progressives. Just because he rants and raves does not a progressive make. I’ve never understood what morons like Greenwald and Firebagger Jane see in him that deems him a progressive’s ally. Now I see he’s anti-womens rights. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
And what a small, petty, vindictive man he is…
It further exposes the PL as not only gravely hollow, unperceptive and seriously deficient in basis, rationale and logic, but seriously bursts any illusion of credibility in their futile and amusingly disorganized and juvenile push to define and control some fantasy ‘progressive’ effort…
It is hard to take serious a group that will perpetually trash an infinitely superior human being like President Obama, but will worship at the altar of Dennis Kucinich and Russ Feingold…
It is even harder to take serious a group of people who slam President Obama for not being ‘progressive’ enough and magically fulfilling every single last contradictory fantasy they’ve prioritized for him, but will swoon when a hardcore corporate wing nut like Jon Huntsman tweets that he believes in evolution…
…And squeal delightedly while worshiping Dick Cheney for being to the ‘far left’ on gay marriage…never mind that Cheney only sort of suggests that and only because it affects his family directly…and yet still he did absolutely nothing to advance the cause while he had the power for 8 eight long years…
It is hard to take serious a group that will trash President Obama but will elevate, celebrate, attempt to rationalize and make endless excuses for Ron Paul…
A vile, hardcore, racist, small-minded man who wishes to return us to the 19th century…
But as long as he promises to end a war …which he couldn’t and wouldn’t …and not for the moral reasons they want to project on his rhetoric…
Since Steve Benen left Washington Monthly, I’m getting a tad annoyed. the Political Animal blog is still good but not what I had become accustomed to.
Today,for example. Their weekend fill-in blogger just had a very worthwhile story about ‘charity care’ in IL and our Governor Quinn trying to mandate by law the terms under which non-profit hospitals that don’t pay any taxes give care to people who cannot afford it. I was fine with the story until this:
“The University of Chicago Hospital, btw, is the place where Michelle Obama used to work — in their “community relations” division — before she became First Lady. At the time she left, she was pulling in a salary of over $300,000 a year.”
Here is my comment:
“Kathleen, I just complimented you on this story, and I continue to do so. However, it was snide to make it sound like Michelle Obama was pulling down a salary in lieu of your health care. You do not know what she did, what she fought for, or continues to fight for. Just a snide, unnecessary comment.”
Here is what the whiny left does to hurt their own cause.
In two words: ‘the bitch’.
Good for you. FL Michelle Obama hasn’t been affiliated with the University of Chicago Hospital for years now. What the heck does she have to do with the story, what business is it of Kathleen’s if she was paid $1 or $300K, and what does she have to do with Gov. Pat Quinn’s legislative proposal? Sometimes the left just bitches and whines in ways that make me want to shake them hard and say stop being your own worst enemy.
not to mention that, if the author’s point was “Salary issues” she could have pulled many many MANY other staffers at UC Hospital (or any other hospital) who make WAY MORE THAN $300,000 a year.
Folks still don’t think a black woman, specifically THAT ONE’S wife, deserved to make THAT kind of money.
The sad truth for those who begrudge Michelle Obama her $300K salary, is that with her credentials, she could have earned significantly more money than that if that was her mission. Instead, she worked to help youths and earned less for it. I wonder if that same person objects to Gingrich or Santorum or Romney or Ron Paul for earning six or seven or eight figure salaries for doing nothing that helped the greater population?
UT - you’re absolutely right. Some people work against their own best interests. They drive good people away because of their lack of appreciation for the sacrifice, and then they hand their very futures over to those who would subjugate them.
Theo, you called it RIGHT!!! To point out FLOTUS at $300,000, when there are so many others that make so much more, is spot on. That they are all old, dusty, racist white men is just coincidence. I have nothing against white men, in fact, I have nothing against old white men. it’s the old, dusty, racist white men that get on my nerves.
Here was the comment that followed mine:
“Kathleen, I work at the U of C. And I think it is totally wrong for you to walk into a hospital ER for a non-emergency when you can just as easily go to Stoger Hospital and get free care !!! ER are for emergencies !!! Your actions are the reason why healthcare costs are so high. It is unlikely that people who walk-in to the ER as if it were a clinic are going to pay the bill for such care. So the hospital recoups these costs thru higher charges to insured patients. Then the ratcheting up of prices for hospital services between insurance companies and hospitals goes on from there. You could have easily gone to the free hospital. In fact, people in Chicago should consider themselves quite lucky that the free hospital is so near. Unlike nearby residents of Indiana, who have to go to Indianapolis for free care. Yes, charity care should be offered. But charity care should be reserved for cancer patients, or other long term illness, that people can’t pay for….not your measly prescription refill !!! You should be ashamed of yourself.”
President Barack Obama talks on the phone with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai from his vehicle outside the Jane E. Lawton Community Center in Chevy Chase, Maryland, Sunday, March 11, 2012. The President called to express his shock and sadness over the reported killing of Afghan civilians. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)
Here is the picture from the call http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/6973517235/in/photostream
This is just my own paltry two cents….we only know what we know and not what the President knows. I think we should all give the man we elected to weigh out these important decisions a chance to assess the situation. I know I am in the minority here, but I trust that WHATEVER decision the President makes, I will stand behind.
LOL, I don’t think you are in the minority here.
LOL, so will I.
LOL, you’re hardly in the minority, here ;)
My letter to the President:
11 March 2025
Dear Mr President,
Far be it for me to presume you are not fully cognizant of the issues raised in this letter.
The purpose is to let you know that those of us whom have deep respect for you and are also aware that, though we pay close attention, you have much more data and context than we do.
No right thinking person could fail to recognize a common element of three tragic recent events in Afghanistan - they incite hatred and violence toward US and Allied troops and non-Afghan civilians. Defiling the dead; desecrating the Holy Koran; and, murdering numerous civilians are vile and inexcusable acts.
Anyone of those events, alone, would complicate your task of repairing Afghanistan sufficiently as to exit with dignity and some hope that the Afghani people would persist to build a stable, equitable society.
However, the temporal nature of these three dastardly events deserve intense correlational analysis. The temporality is not only the fact that these three events have occurred in a relatively brief interval, but also that they’ve all occurred in the first three months of an election year.
Mr. President, you more than any occupant of the White House since General Eisenhower show in your actions and empathy that you emit that you know how perilous any war is.
More troops and civilians dying in Afghanistan will be an exceptionally high price to pay for whatever difference we might perceive in Afghanistan in 2014 (or any other year) and what exists there today. That’s my opinion.
If you have any reason to think differently then you have my full support.
If you look at the facts on the ground and truly cannot convince yourself that we are going to make a significant difference by staying longer, it may just be that by withdrawing carefully, deliberately now might actually result in a more stable situation for those Afghanis committed to a better future.
Clearly, any more incidents like those that have occurred since Jan, 2012, are only going to make that harder for Afghanis and deadly for our troops and our allies.
Thank you,
Bob
Yes We Can …. DO More Together!
Bob, well said. Thank you.
Much appreciated, Bill. Thank you.
#PRESSON
Bob I aways appreciate your well thought out letters to the President.
What I mostly appreciate though, is your total respect and deference to the President, recognizing the
fact that he has much more information than we will ever be privy to. I too will trust his judgement as I
continue to wait and see him put the complex pieces together.
Bobfr, beautiful words of support and recognition to the President. Thank you.
#PRESSON
Thank you Hope & Pamela.
Yes We Can … DO More Together
Very well said, Bob! You really set the standard on how to communicate thoughtfully with the President.
So appreciate your statement of support, nath!
#PRESSON
No LOL you are most definitely NOT in the minority here. PBO may have one more thing heaped on his plate but I trust him. Plain and simple. He’s proven himself over and over and over again and this is one American who does not need PBO to ‘prove’ to me that he knows what to do under pressure. I know he’ll do whatever it takes to make things right.
I lit a candle for him (see upthread if you want to as well) and I put in a Good Word for him because I know that helps. I guess that’s all i got to say about that.
You’re not in the minority—-I agree as well.
You are not in the minority. War is hell and people die. You don’t and can’t abruptly end a war because of these kinds of tragedies. Ending a war responsibly involves considering numerous factors, most of which we have no knowledge. I trust PBO to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
Not in the minority. I agree.
LOL no you are not.
I am with you 100%.
Worth watching. I just can’t imagine. Without knowing about this soldier today, it is not out of the realm to believe that this has happened to him. TBI changes the makeup of a person’s brain, and how they respond to their environment after their injury.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/metro/traumatic-brain-injury/#/home/
within a few hours, the rightwingers will do a through job of politicizing President Obama’s decision on Afaghanistan to push the outcome they want politically.
I do not support the continued war in Afghanistan but I do not want to help the rightwingers in anyway. so I will wait for ALL the details about this sad and tragic incident to come out before I can figure out where we go from here.
Yes the right wing will do this, but as PBO said, it’s easy to talk when you have no responsibilities. We need to keep repeating this when anyone spouts GOP talking points. And also add, ” who cares what you think since you have no role in this.”
As PBHO has pointed out, too, “This is no game.”
And, as always, despite any challenge and/or obstacle, he has “risen to the occasion”….
YES.WE.CAN…DO.(Much)More, Together - WE MUST!
PRESS ON!
AWEsomeeeeeee…Snoopyyyyy…
Pressssss on!
There is no rest for the weary. It’s just overwhelming to think about the number of problems President Obama has to deal with. Now this horrific shooting and the tragic loss of life in Afghanistan. It is sad and very troubling. I felt sick to my stomach when I heard the news.
This is a tough and tragic situation. My question is: how exactly would the military withdraw from Afghanistan any faster than they’ve done? And what would be the consequences of such action, given the nuclear weapons in Pakistan, the delicate negotiations that have been happening with the Taliban, the plight of women in the country?
Don’t get me wrong. My first reaction on hearing this news this morning was wanting the war to end immediately. But, it took 13 months to withdraw troops from Iraq - a country where the fight was predominantly about them wanting the US out of there and to end the occupation, and the primary reason for the US wanting to stay there seemed to be to take advantage of the oil fields. In Afghanistan, you’ve actually got the Al Qaeda folks plotting and planning, there is no industry other than poppy fields that create the drugs funding the terrorist activities, and there’s a demoralized population that has been terrorized throughout this war by the forces fighting against the NATO forces.
How exactly can the NATO troops get out of there any faster than they’re doing, and not create an even more dangerous situation for countries in the region and around the world? How does a faster withdrawal not embolden the Al Qaeda forces that have been weakened around the world, and give them more reason to regroup? How does a faster withdrawal not create an even more volatile situation in Pakistan?
I don’t know what the answer is - but I’m glad that the team figuring all this out have the best intentions of the troops, the country and the world at heart. The right wing will pile on with their simplistic demands, based on limited information. We should try and resist adding to the noise.
+1,000,000,000.
I so agree with you theo. When I heard the news, my first reaction was for us to get out of there—tomorrow. But we are withdrawing and 20K+ more are due out in June I believe and more going towards year-end. I assume all the thousands of pages of reports and briefs that the President has read on the region facilitates his decisions. I also then thought about the nukes in Pakistan…boy oh boy. As a citizen not governing a country or influencing world events, it’s easy to be very passionate about this issue but I’ve decided to be calm and think long-term. I also know that the RW will want to now say leave Afghanistan for one reason—-to start a war with Syria and Iran. They were previously opposing PBO’s announcement of withdrawal, every last one of them. I also know from observing PBO over the years that if he accelerates withdrawal or increases the numbers coming back on the timetable (which is very likely to happen), it won’t be said right after an incident has happened or when the media is full throttle on this issue 24 hrs a day. He is very measured and methodical that way to not let those who would thwart negotiations over there think they may have won. Plus, I’m not in those Situation Room meetings—-I do trust his decision-making skills on this.
THIS…I WILL TRUST THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM MAKING THE DECISIONS!!!!
Bravo Theo. Completely concur with the statements you expressed.
I’m in complete agreement with you theo67
Well said, theo! I totally agree with your wise statement and advice:
“I don’t know what the answer is – but I’m glad that the team figuring all this out have the best intentions of the troops, the country and the world at heart. The right wing will pile on with their simplistic demands, based on limited information. We should try and resist adding to the noise.”
“how exactly would the military withdraw from Afghanistan any faster than they’ve done? ”
They can’t. So I am not understanding why anyone would send out simplistic and unrealistic demands thinking that tweeting messages like BRING HOME TROOPS NOW makes any sense.
whatever . . . Mr. President — please stay the course. Do what you are doing. I am confident in this administration doing the best it can given the circumstances we are under.
To Theo67,
The wisdom you express in this comment is so perfect. We are truly “saddened” by this dashardly act of betrayal by a person we hold in the most high esteem at this moment in our history. At this point, we do not know what caused a soldier who is among the group of our most respected citizens to act in such a dishonorable manner at a sensitive time in the course of this war. Whatever happened we must rely on our military leaders, and most of all our great Commander-In-Chief to decide how our nation will overcome this horror. We must SUPPORT President Obama, our soldiers, and our nation. This is another reason I am thankful that President Barack Obama is our Commander-In-Chief. Let’s not get weak knees at this moment. President Obama is getting lectured to about Iran, Isreal, Iraq (even in light of our President ending the Iraq War, the other side criticizes his accomplishment), and Syria. We must Stand With President Obama, and let him know WE HAVE HIS BACK!!!
150 Women Who Shake the World
http://www.thedailybeast.com/features/150-women-who-shake-the-world.html
hey neat!
This should make your mouth curl up…just a little… :)
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/santorum-bucks-gop-message-on-the-economy.php?ref=fpa
Rick Santorum deviated from the party line this weekend when he suggested that an improving economy could damage Republicans’ chances in November. Santorum, whose campaign has helped bring social issues to the fore this year, let slip Saturday that the economy might not be a winning issue — or even the main issue during the election.
“You hear now the media starting to say, oh well, looks like the economy is getting better,” Santorum told supporters in Missouri Saturday night after winning the Kansas caucuses. “You know, the economy may be getting better and Republicans may lose their edge on that issue. Well, if that was the only issue in this race, that may or may not be the case, we don’t know.”
Of course, Lindsey Graham promptly shot him down….
Well pigs are flying. Ricky Santorum actually said something sensible. That’s why the R’s will do everything in their power to undermine economy and undervalue progress. But facts are facts.
Perhaps his implication was that Romney only has the issue of the economy, while he has all the conservative social issues that will be left as the economy continues to improve.
I don’t know how Republicans ever had an edge on the issue of the economy. They caused the mess. They’ve done nothing to help solve the crisis they created. They aren’t proposing anything new to solve it going forward. I certainly can’t think why anyone with a thinking brain could even think the answer to a slow economy is anyone from the Republican party.
Personally, whether the economy is growing or not, the only person I’d want solving the issue of the economy is President Obama. Period.
Time Lapse
:)
Oh Linda, is that your grandbaby? What a wonderful video. I have tears it is so precious. Thanks for sharing.
No…my grandbabies are 21 and 23 years old. ( ouch )
I just happened to come across it looking for something else.
Thanks for this Linda. I’ve got a smile on my face. The cycle of life is a beautiful wonder.
Linda, this video is nice & congratulations…
Oh, no! But still a nice video & thanks for sharing. :)
WHAT A PRICELESS VIDEO…BRINGS A SMILE TO MY FACE AND A CONGRATULATIONS TO THE NEW LIFE PRESENTED TO THE WORLD!
I’m smiling from ear to ear. The world keeps turning…
She is adorable.
So we have the Marines who urinated on dead Taliban fighters. We have the soldiers who burned copies of the Koran. Now we have a soldier shooting at and killing innocent Afghans.
As I posted above, POTUS NEEDS to get the HELL out of Afghanistan, ASAP! The right has already hammered him enough for “apologizing to the Muslim world” and the emoprogs are going to continue to whine about him being no different than Bush on foreign affairs, even though most of us here at TOD know better than that.
The time to leave Afghanistan should start NOW, there is NOTHING FURTHER TO ACCOMPLISH BY REMAINING THERE!!!! President Obama already has a stellar record of eliminating and damaging Al Qaeda, as well as their head cheese… and I don’t personally CARE if the right wing whines that he’s withdrawing in an erratic fashion, leaving us in surrender, etc etc etc… its the SAME RIGHTWING who can’t accept the FACT that President Obama gathered the goods of Osama bin Laden’s whereabouts, and gave a risky order for NAVY SEAL Team 6 to go in and take him out. And we DON’T need the emoprogs diminishing turnout in this critical election year by whining about him being further to the right/the same as President Bush on foreign affairs and alienating voters.
Time to GET THE HELL OUT OF AFGHANISTAN, IMMEDIATELY!!!!!
Here is an update……What a nightmare…….( I could not bring myself to post any part of it )
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/03/11-0
If President Obama governed based on reactions of the “right” or the “emoprogs” this is where we would be:
1. Detroit would have gone bankrupt because both the “right” and the “emoprogs” argued against the bailout of the auto industry.
2. There would be no HCR because he would have listened to the emoprogs and “killed the bill” for not having a public option, or abandoned it because the RW wanted him to “start over.”
3. DADT would still be LAW…PBO would have simply signed an Executive Order instead of having congress repeal the law on the urgings of the emoprogs.
4. The START Treaty, middle-class tax cuts, unemployment insurance extensions would be non-existant because on the urgings of the emoprogs, PBO would have insisted that the Bush tax cuts expire or nothing.
No one is going to back this President in any corner to do stuff that he didn’t intend to do. The President knows a lot that we don’t know and he has a timeline which the Afghan people are on board with. I detect a pattern of incidents with these US soldiers and it will be evident if this pattern continues. I trust the President’s decsion-making more than any emoprog or RW-er.
Exactly! Then, day he gets out right now!
What sort of reaction do you think their would be from the right, a rabid right, whose messaging and media contacts are supreme?
Waving the white flag of surrender! Screaming it from the Mountain tops.
That alone would lose the independent vote.
Playing that out, Robney would just send Troops back in, start another war in Iran, and increase military spending ten fold.
I have seen this movie before, it does not end well!
Bravo.
Thank you. You are a voice of reason and not reaction.
Well put Hopefruit…
The mindless freak-outs at every periodic and unexpected setback is so bloody irritating and off putting…
It is easy to anonymously roam on a blog feverishly posting orders and demands to and of our brilliant, thoughtful and measured President with only pedestrian knowledge, if that, of the situation…
To wish that people would quit this mindless freak-outs would probably be asking too much, so I choose instead to remove myself from it lately…
It is harder however for me to protect the many politically ‘fragile’ folks I’ve turned onto this precious place…
Nin, you are reacting very emotionally to a very complex and complicated issue. That’s understandable. But a word of caution. You have got to stop basing your emotional reactions on what the right will do or how the right will react. You have got to stop basing decisions President Obama has approved or should approve or should do based on how the right will react or what the right will do. It makes you lose your focus on what is important. It makes you lose your focus on the long term view and the long term game. I am going to repost what I wrote to Chipsticks and Drunken Irishman.
We are not privy to the national security briefings that PBO receives everyday. I understand the clamors for withdrawal right now! But we have got to remember the imminent threat of Pakistan unraveling all the progress – however slim – that we have made. If PBO had withdrawn from Iraq in response to every violent attack from the American or Iraqi side or every senseless and horrific tragedy, we would have left Iraq in a half-cocked manner and the mess that would have unraveled after our leaving would have been monumental. Afghanistan is even more of a quagmire than Iraq. It is a thousand times more complicated and complex and requires a very careful fine tuned, logical touch. Not an emotional one. Remember that PBO has already moved up our withdrawal date to late 2013 – mid 2014 and that was guided by facts, national security briefings, monitoring the situation on the ground, and taking all perspectives into consideration. In addition to that, this is an election year. You cannot just enact an abrupt withdrawal without months and months and months of briefings and plans. How do we leave? What time do we leave? What contingent will be the last to leave? Have we resolved relations with the Taliban? Have we come to an understanding with the Taliban? Have we made sure that the government of Afghanistan won’t succumb to Pakistan and support their nuclear weapons strategy? Have we made sure that the Afghani soldiers are well equipped and well trained? All these and many more questions need to be resolved before we begin yelling “LEAVE AND LEAVE NOW! MR. PRESIDENT!!!!!” Remember, Afghanistan is a very complicated and complex issue that cannot and must not be responded to with emotional reactions. That is not wise and it is not safe. It does irreparable damage to our troops and the Afghans.
I understand… but this has gone on long enough. How many more dead enemy fighters will be urinated on, how many more Korans will be burned, how many more soldiers will go out and kill civilians for the heck of it?
There is NO excuse. President Obama needs to begin leaving Afghanistan IMMEDIATELY! This will hammer him during election time if the economy doesn’t… whether it’s the right wing saying he’s embracing a conflict liberals don’t like and apologizing to the Muslim world, or if the emoprogs say that his foreign policy mirrors that of President Bush. I’m not one to play armchair commando, but this President has to demonstrate that he’s taking the steps to end this mess in Afghanistan. This event (the killing of civilians by a US soldier) is what does it for me. we need to leave now.
You say you are not one to play “armchair commando” but unfortunately that is exactly what you are doing. Over and over you base your reactions to what the right or what the emoprogs will do. You base President Obama’s decisions on how the emoprogs will react, how the right will react, how the emoprogs are reacting, and how the right is acting. I would encourage you to read hopefruit2’s above stated comment to you. If PBO had been worried about how the right and emoprogs would react do you for one second think we would be out of Iraq? (which took more than 13 months and was done that way so as not to leave an even bigger mess in/by our withdrawal plan), Do you for one second think the auto bailout would have happened? Do you for one second think healthcare reform would have happened? Do you for one second think DADT would have been repealed? Do you for one second think there would have been a Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act? Do you for one second think there would have been a hate crimes law that included the LGBT community as a protected status? Do you for one second think there would have been a payroll tax cut? Do you for one second think there would have been two women on the SC? I could go on and on and on. I will repeat this again. Afghanistan is not a shits and giggles situation. It is a very complicated and complex issue and should never be handled in an overly emotional manner. It should never be treated so nonchalantly and cavalierly. PBO has already moved up the withdrawal date to late 2013 - mid 2014. 10,000 troops were withdrawn last year. 20,000 will be withdrawn later this year I believe. We are not privy to the national security briefings PBO receives. Afghanistan is a very complex and complicated issue.
Nintendo - the Republicans are the ones who started the war with Afghanistan, then they left to start an illegal war with Iraq, then they left office and wished President Obama good luck in cleaning up their mess and bringing home over 100,000 troops safe and sound. Are you really saying that anything that the Republicans say with regards to this war or any other should be taken seriously? You say “this President has to demonstrate that he’s taking the steps to end this mess in Afghanistan”. Well, he’s done that. NATO is united behind a single transition plan, culminating in a final handover in 2014.
These are the facts: the President said he’d end the war in Iraq by the end of 2011. He did that. He said he would take into consideration conditions on the ground. He did that. He said he’d do it carefully and methodically. He did that. He said he would not leave permanent bases in Iraq. He kept that promise. He said he’d leave the Iraqis to their own oil, and make no claims. He did that. He promised to be thoughtful about war - he does that every single day. He promised to care for the troops and make sure them and their families got the care they needed. He’s done that. The President said he would go after bin Ladin in Pakistan, if he had credible information and the Pakistani’s refused to act. He did that.
How much more does this President need to do to demonstrate his love for the troops, his commitment to US national security, and his intent to do everything possible to not put troops in harms way or take/leave them in battle any longer than is absolutely necessary? What will it take for people to finally believe him when he makes a promise and it’s within his power to keep it? He keeps his promises, and he’s proven that time and time again. It’s astounding to me that anyone would consider any comment/opinion/wish from a Republican, with their failed and disastrous track record, over the truth and integrity they’ve come to know from this President.
“How much more does this President need to do to demonstrate his love for the troops, his commitment to US national security, and his intent to do everything possible to not put troops in harms way or take/leave them in battle any longer than is absolutely necessary? ”
Nothing.
My faith has never been shaken. I am confident that this administration will continue to move forward with ending the war in Afghanistan responsibly based on fact and as you said, carefully and methodically.
I scroll past the hair on fire tendencies. There is NOTHING PO can do for some. Absolutely nothing. The hand-wringing is expected. It’s been over two weeks since the last tirade so it was about due.
I agree with you both, Theo67 and nospin. I totally trust this president and know he will do the right thing for all concerned.
NO EXCUSE! WHO DIED AND LEFT YOU IN CHARGE? Just like that you want shit done. Why? I ask why? Were you this passionate when folks were getting shot and killed in this country because they wanted to vote. Sheesh……
You folks have been on this rant about Afghanistan for the better part of 3 damn hours. Somebody needs to send PBO that there are plenty of foreign policy advisors on TOD if he needs one……..That is all.
Absolutely spot on Sir…
Thank you…
I thought I was alone in my complete and utter irritation at this ridiculousness…
Sorry Chi. I’m better now.
Thank you yardam756 :)
Sorry for the rant.I got a little riled.
“Time to GET THE HELL OUT OF AFGHANISTAN, IMMEDIATELY!!!!!”
and if he were to get out tomorrow, what happens next nintendowii10?
O/T Oprah’s Next Chapter:
Tonight Oprah Interviews Whitney Houston’s Family Sunday at 9/8c
On Sunday, March 11, Oprah sits down with Whitney Houston’s daughter, Bobbi Kristina; her sister-in-law, Patricia Houston; and her brother, Gary Houston, on a special episode of Oprah’s Next Chapter airing at 9/8c, only on OWN. Bobbi Kristina shares personal memories of her mom and how she would like the iconic superstar to be remembered. The family also addresses the rumors and speculation surrounding Houston’s death. Watch a sneak preview now:
http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-next-chapter/Sneak-Preview-Oprah-Interviews-Whitney-Houstons-Family-Video?own
I quite sick of Oprah ambulance chasing and interviewing the children of stars who die suddenly. I was disturbed when she interviewed the Jackson children, and now this interview with Bobbi Kristina. The last interview Oprah did with Whitney Houston, Whitney told her she had agreed to the rare interview because she trusted Oprah. This interview betrays that trust, in my opinion. And it’s not worthy of Oprah’s reputation. They should just leave the family in peace - come back in a year or so. And leave the kids alone.
Completely agree…
This young woman needs more than anything to heal privately and for a long time too…
There will be plenty of time for a ratings boosting interview snag for Oprah…
Terribly premature and ill-advised…
I fail to see the value in interviewing this still traumatized and grieving child at this time…
O/T
President Obama Plans Big Effort to Build Support Among Women
President Obama’s re-election campaign is beginning an intensified effort this week to build support among women, using the debate over the new health care law to amplify an appeal that already appears to be benefiting from partisan clashes over birth control and abortion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/us/politics/obama-campaign-plans-big-effort-to-court-women.html?_r=2&hp
THE AFGHAN SITUATION IS EXTREMELY UNFORTUNATE AND FRANKLY DISGUSTING. THEN THE PRESS TAKES THIS DOWN THE PATH AND WILL FOR DAYS! OUR PBO HAS IMPROVED OUR INTERNATIONAL REPUTATION…THESE SOLDIERS NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILITY THEY HAVE TO AMERICA WHEN THEY ARE OVER THERE….FOR THOSE WHO DON’T…THE AFTER EFFECTS DAMAGE THE COUNTRY THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR!
Sue you right, this is horrible beyond words and there is no way to describe the suffering and pain the victims who lost their loves must feel. One question that keeps coming into my mind is this: Why is it normally American soldiers committing these unthinkable acts? I don’t understand.
I don’t care if I get flamed for saying this but as I stated on the previous thread, I have my suspicions about these recent string of incidents. Since this year started, they’ve occurred with periodicity, once a month and ALWAYS involve US soldiers.
IT COULD BE ANY OF THE REASONS I LISTED BELOW…THEY ‘WILL’ FIND OUT. I FEEL FOR INNOCENTS LOST AND I FEEL FOR PBO!
I was thinking the same thing too hopefruit, but I’ll just wait until I hear all the details. This year is going to be very challenging, but I do appreciate everyone’s views and truly appreciate Chipsticks for providing such a great place to express those views.
I agree Hopefruit…
There are those in the opposition party who are so desperate for power and even more so to topple this President, they’ll stop at nothing…
Something stinks…
The US military has a roach problem. Prez O’s team knows what’s going on and they are dealing with it.
SOMETIMES PTSD IS INVOLVED…SOMETIMES THEY DO IT TO TRY FOR AN EARLY OUT…SOME CAN BE DOING IT TO DELIBERATLEY DAMAGE THE REPUTATION OF AMERICA’S PRESENCE THERE…IT’S A CASE BY CASE SCENARIO…TESTING OF THE SOLDIER RESPONSIBLE WILL PRODUCE THE ANSWER. I SAW THIS ALOT WITH VIETNAM…THE AUTROCITIES WERE HUGE. I REMEMBER WHEN MY EX WAS A MARINE DRILL INSTRUCTOR…AT THAT TIME MEN WERE BREAKING THEIR OWN LIMBS SO THEY WOULDN’T HAVE TO GO. WAR DOES STRANGE THINGS TO PEOPLE AND WE WON’T UNDERSTAND MANY OF THOSE THINGS UNTIL WE WALK IN THEIR SHOES. MY EX CAME BACK AND WENT OVER 2 MORE TIMES BECAUSE HE DECIDED HE LOVED THE KILLING…IN BETWEEN THOSE TOURS..I DIVORCED HIM…DON’T NEED OR WANT THAT IN MY LIFE. HE WAS SPECIAL FORCES!
Sue, thank you, for your reply. I agree case by case, but it’s still hard for me to put my mind around these last three incidents…b/c there is all kind of medical people around and deployed with the troops, and unlike Vietnam, these troops have the support of not only the CIC, but the nation… How about the picture taking? This is hard own the human psyche to say the least. Maybe the military needs to some how do a ‘stand-down’ and evaluate the situation.
IT’S VERY POSSIBLE THAT THESE INCIDENTS ARE DONE TO DISCREDIT OUR PRESENCE THERE…HOWEVER…WE WILL NOT KNOW ANY ANSWERS UNTIL THEY ARE INVESTIGATED. AND…LOOK AT FT. HOOD…LOTS OF MEDICAL PEOPLE AROUND AND NOONE NEW THE GUY WAS GOING TO GO CRAZY…SAME FOR SCHOOL SHOOTERS…PEOPLE CAN HIDE VERY WELL AND IN A WAR ZONE…IN PARTICULAR…A WAR ZONE…GETTING BY UNOTICED MAY BE EASIER. ONLY THE INVESTIGATORS WILL FIND OUT!
THAT’S ‘KNEW’….TIRED HERE! VERY DISAPPOINTED TO COME HOME AND HEAR THIS NEWS!
I think PTSD might be a potential cause for this situation. IMO our soldiers are all physically and mentally tired. What I mean is that they are exhausted from the wars they are/have fought. It is crticial for the them to get a job, healthcare, physical, and mental help they need when they return from war. IMO this latest incident likely is causing a major uproar with our allies, which will likely lead to the Afghan war ending this year.
I don’t understand either why American soldiers are acting this way. I hope that the soldier that committed these murders gets the punishment he or she deserves for killing these innoncent civilians.
I am NOT excusing a few Troops whose Behavior is Gross! But, can we stop ragging on the Troops? You know, they have the toughest job in the World? Right? Right?
Why don’t you try it, if you think it is so easy?
The troops SHOULD know better. There’s just no excuse for them urinating on dead enemy fighters, burning Korans, or the one soldier going rogue and killing innocents. The sooner we get the hell out of Afghanistan, the better, which is why I’m of the mindset that I don’t care HOW MUCH the far right whine about him surrendering or apologizing to the Muslim world. Time to leave NOW!!!!
Well, you can always vote for buddy Roemer or Ron Paul!
I am sure they will see to your needs?
Killing of innoncent civialians shouldn’t be excused.
Did I say that?
I’M CERTAINLY NOY EXCUSING ANYONE INVOLVED IN THIS…BUT…WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE INVESTIGATION PRODUCES.
HAH! THAT’S NOT….SLEEPY…CAN’T TYPE ANYMORE!..LOL!
YOU HAVE TO ALSO ALLOW FOR SEVERE PTSD…SOMETIMES THERE IS NO WARNING AND THEY SUFFER A COMPLETE MENTAL BREAKDOWN…WE JUST DON’T KNOW AT THIS POINT!
I agree with you Brit, this should be investigated, if the person or persons are found to be guilty, they should pay. Those people were someone son, husband, daughter, wife, etc.
Warmongers such as Dick Cheney, Willard, Newton Leroy and many others decided not to try it during Vietnam.
I understand where you’re coming from Jovie. The troops should always know better and always be held to the highest standards because they are our face around the world. Their reprehensible behaviors should never be treated lightly but at the same time we should never let a few bad apples sour our support for the troops. We should never let a few bad apples taint the hard work and sacrifices our troops and their families have made.
Jovie, I know they have a tough job, there isn’t a one of us who would say the work they do is easy, but this is uncall for, just like the burning of the koran, if they can’t handle it then get out. It makes the the other troops looks bad, it makes things worse for them and it makes our country look bad.
This recent situation does make our country look bad. I can just imagine how many countries have called POTUS, and Sec. Clinton about this, in regards to safety for their soldiers. I don’t see anyone coming down on the troops or saying they don’t support them anymore. People just are stating the obvious, that killing of those Afghan civilians is wrong.
Vietnam war had many more crimes, and when Troops came Home, they were spat on.
Remember, for every one bad guy, their is 10s if thousands doing a remarkable job.
Don’t worry, the Military will throw the book at that person, he ain’t going nowhere!
I agree Jovie .
:) :) :) :)
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/03/11/442208/affidavit-confirming-impotence-viagra/
An Ohio State Senator is turning the tables on men seeking to regualate women’s access to reproductive health. Sen. Nina Turner (D-Cleveland) has introduced legislation regulating men’s access to erectile dysfunction drugs. The Dayton Daily News has the details:
Before getting a prescription for Viagra or other erectile dysfunction drugs, men would have to see a sex therapist, receive a cardiac stress test and get a notarized affidavit signed by a sexual partner affirming impotency, if state Sen. Nina Turner has her way.
I just got polled for the 2nd time in a week. I suspect it’s in the interest of the Romney/Santorum race in upcoming primary here in Illinois. As soon as they discover I’m Obama/Dem, they lose interest in me real fast. This last one asked—am I registered to vote? do I plan to vote in primary? Dem or Repub? Dem. Thank you for your time. Goodbye.
The latest poll today has Robney only up 4 over Santorum- in Illionois. Within MOE.
That is significant, because that is a ton of delegates…
NOT SHOCKING-these Repugs Congress “persons” have lost it:
H.CON.RES.107 — Expressing the sense of Congress that the use of offensive military force by a President without prior and clear authorization of an Act of Congress constitutes an impeachable high… (Introduced in House - IH)
HCON 107 IH
112th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. CON. RES. 107
Expressing the sense of Congress that the use of offensive military force by a President without prior and clear authorization of an Act of Congress constitutes an impeachable high crime and misdemeanor under article II, section 4 of the Constitution.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
March 7, 2025
Mr. JONES submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of Congress that the use of offensive military force by a President without prior and clear authorization of an Act of Congress constitutes an impeachable high crime and misdemeanor under article II, section 4 of the Constitution.
Whereas the cornerstone of the Republic is honoring Congress’s exclusive power to declare war under article I, section 8, clause 11 of the Constitution: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That it is the sense of Congress that, except in response to an actual or imminent attack against the territory of the United States, the use of offensive military force by a President without prior and clear authorization of an Act of Congress violates Congress’s exclusive power to declare war under article I, section 8, clause 11 of the Constitution and therefore constitutes an impeachable high crime and misdemeanor under article II, section 4 of the Constitution.
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where was this punk congress criter when shrub was using force???
Not just shrub, but also Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, St. Ronnie, Papa Bush, and Bill Clinton, all of whom used offensive military force without prior Congressional authorization! Besides, why isn’t “this punk congress criter” telling Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham, as well as Speaker Boehner and Majority leader Cantor, to stop advocating bombing Iran and Syria without a Congressional Declaration of War? I bet you this Congressman would have no problem restricting this Resolution to apply only to President Obama. This is nothing more than another “birther” attempt to de-legitimize President Obama.
So - do they plan to go back several decades to impeach all prior presidents for the use of force? Ironically, the only one who wouldn’t face impeachment under these guidelines is George W Bush - the illegitimate president who started an illegal war on falsified information and against the wishes of the United Nations, and then employed tactics of torture against international treaties and who is now wanted for an appearance at the Hague.The Republicans are a bunch of yahoos.
For everybody who is second guessing the President, and having a knee jerk reaction about getting OUT…
Well, RON PAULS website is that way—->
I am serious. This is very complicated, and everytime something happens, people lose it and second guess the President.
It’s Ronpaul.com
HAH! CAN NEVER SECOND GUESS PBO…HE IS SO FAR AHEAD OF US…AND HE IS PRIVY TO ALL SORTS OF SECURITY INFO. WE ARE NOT. HE WILL MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS REGARDING THIS WAR…I TRUST HIS JUDGEMENT!
Their you go! I agree!!!
Agree—-no one hates war more than President Obama, but he just might have a few more details than anyone handing out free advice today. His #1 job is protecting the country.
Bravo, Sue! I am with you 100%! Like you, I trust President Obama’s judgement to make the right decision!
Jovie I agree with you 100%.
when some on this site turn into those who are ordering Presient Obama to do -(a) — (b) — (c) NOW, then I know it is time for me to log off until we get a clear understanding of what transpired in any particular incident in the news.
I am off to wtach some of President Obama’s speeches
Okay…as I predicted, the MSM (Wapost, ABC, etc) has just come out with their ready poll today (which was conveniently conducted just in time for the latest incident) showing that a majority of Americans want Afghan troop withdrawal now regardless of conditions there, and say that the war is not worth fighting anymore. Gingrich coming out with that comment about immediate withdrawal (along with the silence of the others) was a dead giveaway that something is amiss with these latest string of incidents.
Unemployment numbers, gas prices, and contraceptives are no longer worthwhile for the GOP or MSM to discuss, so lets try another angle..this time the War in Afghanistan and we’ll gleefully report the outrageous incidents committed by US soldiers once a month and push polls …
Hmmm….
oops- I didn’t mean this as a response to your comment Linda (which I agree with by the way!).
“when some on this site turn into those who are ordering President Obama to do -(a) — (b) — (c) NOW I know it is time for me to log off”
globalcitizenlinda - don’t let them make you log off. It isn’t new. They can’t help themselves. Here is what we know — PO will continue to do what he has been doing and as always he will make a way out of no way. Then a few days later there will be eggs on their faces and they will admit that maybe they were off mark and maybe because of past experience under this administration, they should have known better. You will read just how much PO is all that and a bag of bon bons and then a few weeks later it is on to another issue and the cycle begins again.
Wash, rinse, repeat
No, they won’t admit they were wrong. They’ll say nothing, that is, until the next controversy. Wash, rinse, repeat. I’ve learned when the hair is on fire just scroll past or keep it moving.
I’m with you L3.Let’s grab nospin and go get a beer. :-)
I’ll buy.
Oh you will,eh? Then make mine a double. :-) Been gone all day. Early primary voting. Had to get my licks in. Tons of judges really grosses me out.
its a temporaly log off until all the facts come out and POTUS makes his decision. Let those who are set one way or another continue for now
Thanks for the heads up Jovie. For some reason I thought those caucuses were not until Tuesday!
These are polls for Tuesday’s caucuses!
Lol!
Both of them will have Mitt Romney up and the MSM will breathlessly report.
I’m interested in the poll on Nov 6th 2012 - one that I actually will have some say in.
Just saw a great ad for Tammy Duckworth in Illinois—-it links her to President Obama, and while it says she will fight extremism to protect Medicare, Nutty Nut Joe Walsh appears on the screen—-he’ll be her opponent if she wins the primary. I’m sure all here join me in hoping this crazy teabagger deadbeat dad departs our politics forever and ever amen.
I have said before we have excellent Dems in this district prinary, either one of which will wipe the floor with Walsh. What has truly imnpressed me about both of them is tht they have not gone after each other in any of the ad, print or othrwise, not when talking about their own merits. It has all been about themselves and what they bring to the table. They are both classy people and either would be an eent progressive representing their people in Washington.
Happy B-day, PJ! March is a great month for birthdays ( my baby sister’s is coming up this Tuesday.). :)
Makes a lot of damn sense to me. We should clone her for the House. Forty or fifty like her and we could get shit done.
Afghan president moves closer to agreement on post-2014 US pact
Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Sunday he would meet western demands to sign by May a much-delayed pact defining the country’s long-term relationship with the US, but the agreement may not initially establish the size or location of US forces remaining in Afghanistan.
Karzai was speaking at an event in Kabul before news reached the capital that a US soldier had shot dead 16 Afghan civilians, most of them women and children, on a night-time killing spree outside his base in southern Afghanistan.
In the speech to mark International Women’s Day, which fell on the Afghan weekend, he said the US and its allies would provide $4.1bn a year in support for Afghanistan’s security forces after their own combat forces leave in 2014.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/11/afghan-president-hamid-karzai-us-pact?CMP=twt_fd
So it is clear to me now that the media is going to now focus on the War in Afghanistan, fomenting discord in PBO’s base. As the Washington Post happily reports:
” A renewal of critical views could have political ramifications for President Obama’s re-election effort. Discontent with the war in Iraq, at similar levels as views on Afghanistan today, badly damaged George W. Bush’s presidency, marking the risk for Obama, especially in an election year.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/six-in-10-criticize-war-in-afghanistan-most-favor-abandoning-training-mission/
The poll happened to have been completed one day before the incident and the reports about the poll include the incident. A bunch of convenient polling nonsense about Americans wanting pullout of Afghanistan NOW and what it means for PBO, yet not a SINGLE word about the ramifications for the current GOP candidates, esp. the frontrunner Mitt Romney who has been ALL FOR STARTING NEW WARS and not ending old ones.
Call me paranoid, but as I said on the previous thread…these recent string of incidents leave me very skeptical.
People already know that we will start pulling out from Afghanistan in the summer, so this is the media way in trying to stir up something. G.w. Bush and the Iraq war was a whole different story.
Agreed but we’re spending too much time on this thread talking about something we can’t influence or change.
Totally OT: Harry’s Law is back tonight on NBC. It’s on right now! Great dialogue, Great script, Great acting, Great plotlines, and a Great take on our socio-political culture.
Love Harry’s Law and just finished watching.
It was awesome tonight!
(BTW, I like “Spinach” and “Popeye” LOL)
Thanks for the head’s up. We are watching it right now in MT. I just love Harry’s Law. That and The Good Wife top my list.
So what is Mitt Romney’s response to this Afghan shooting? He was quick to weigh in on the jobs report on Friday but is silent now? Where is the media on Romney’s opinion - especially since they were quick to report how this could have ramifications for PBO’s re-election bid in November. What about Romney’s election in November? What does Mitt Romney think about the Afghan troop withdrawal?Or is Karl Rove coaching him for his next “flip-flop” statement on the issue.
Romney’s a coward. He’s checking the weather vane for which position to take and how convenient it will be to flip-flop from said taken position.
He didn’t get his phone call from grover Norquist to tell him what he’s supposed to think.
I share 57andFemale’s concern for Steve’s former blog. There is another post by Kathleen Geier(besides the one where she snidely mentions Michelle Obama received $300,00 a year in the non profit Hospital)., “Dennis Menaced” where she cites greenwald and digby’s concern for Democrats eating their own. What a crock. There were several replies pushing back on the foolishness in her post. i linked ABL’s “It’s not the whackiness ..it’s the fecklessness” on Balloon Juice that I saw earlier on TOD.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_03/dennis_menaced035975.php
I missed that one. I did not like this blogger this weekend. I’m not ‘in love’ with Steve’s replacement but I still check there. I’m glad I’m not just being a cranky old lady.
If any Democrat is ‘eating their own’ it’s Kucinich, who was rude about Marci Kaptur’s win. He is graceless, in consistent and quick to inflame without thinking. I’m a proud progressive but in my opinion Kucinich stood in the way of progress more times than he supported it during PBO’s tough fights.
btw, here was a comment that followed mine about the use of hospitals:
“Kathleen, I work at the U of C. And I think it is totally wrong for you to walk into a hospital ER for a non-emergency when you can just as easily go to Stoger Hospital and get free care !!! ER are for emergencies !!! Your actions are the reason why healthcare costs are so high. It is unlikely that people who walk-in to the ER as if it were a clinic are going to pay the bill for such care. So the hospital recoups these costs thru higher charges to insured patients. Then the ratcheting up of prices for hospital services between insurance companies and hospitals goes on from there. You could have easily gone to the free hospital. In fact, people in Chicago should consider themselves quite lucky that the free hospital is so near. Unlike nearby residents of Indiana, who have to go to Indianapolis for free care. Yes, charity care should be offered. But charity care should be reserved for cancer patients, or other long term illness, that people can’t pay for….not your measly prescription refill !!! You should be ashamed of yourself.”
Have appreciated the discussion on the horrible Afghanistan incident. Martha Raddatz said on ABC news tonight that the soldier accused, who accused himself, had served three deployments in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. That is too many for any one psyche to take. I’m not excusing him at all. This shows us in stark outline, the danger of this endless war and the dangers of continued deployments, and what it is doing to the small % of people who actually serve in the armed forces. The horror is concentrated in a very small number of people. This is not shared by the country at large, like WWII was. The volunteer army sounds great, in theory, but this is what happens to those on the front lines.
Also, I know that the Army is often considered the only way up and out for a certain borderline class of white males, and this class of males is frequently drenched in racism. I live in Oklahoma, I know this. To these people, people of darker complexions do not count. Their hatred is under control most of the time, but eventually, they snap.
The military will have to deal with the internal problem, and the President and Secretary Clinton will deal with the international problem. I certainly do not feel qualified to advise the president to get out now, and how stupid to poll people on this and act as if this should deterine policy! I wish these wars had never been started, and was not for them at all. However, once in, they have to be dealt with correctly now. How many more people will be killed, is always the question. I think we should ask the iraqis about that.
War is hell! Those of us who are comfortable at home will never, never understand what these people go through, what GWB and Cheney started and ordered us into. I lay these crimes at the feet of Cheney, GWB, Rumsfeld and the gung-ho generals who were in command early on.
I’ve lived through Korea, Viet Nam, the Gulf War, and now these two. They are all awful. I’m also old enough to remeber the end of World War II. We think of that as glorious and a “good” war, but war is war. Atrocities happened.
My father was a chaplain in WWII, and told horrendous stories of men purposefully hurting themselves to try to keep from being sent to fight. One man who was a marvelous trumpeter cut off his right index finger to “prove” he was crazy and couldn’t go. The doctors sewed it on and he went to fight. This was just one story. There were thousands of others. Remember, these wars have gone on twice as long as WWII, also. It wears, and wears and wears.
That’s enough from me. I’m so thankful that we have President Obama and not President McCain at this time. The whole country would be lost if that were the case. Don’t pay attention to all the spouters. They know not of what they speak.
WE ARE SO BLESSED WITH OUR AMAZING,THINKING PRESIDENT. I PRAY FOR HIM EACH DAY…HE LOVES AMERICA DEARLY AND HAS SACRIFICED SO MUCH OF HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY TO DO THIS JOB. I BELIEVE HE WAS BORN TO IT AND HIS CALM MATURITY IS GREATLY NEEDED AT THIS TIME IN OUR HISTORY. I AM GOING TO FIGHT LIKE HELL TO KEEP HIM HERE ANOTHER 4 YEARS!
I still maintain that if there was a still draft (I know that there won’t be, but if there was….) the folks that are so easily swayed into voting for war, wouldn’t be so quick to put their sons and daughters in harm’s way.
I know that this is a simplified view of a very complex situation, but, nonetheless, I believe it to be true.
ACTUALLY ‘ISONPRIZE’…I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT ON IT!
Make it plain. We wouldn’t be over there at all.
Excellent comment.
I have had an extremely busy day, and to be honest have only been able to skim a few of the comments, so take that into accoooas you read what I am about to say. Also, full disclosure, I have a son who is career Army, has served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and some of xperiences do color what I am about to say.
I have read some comments basically coming close to condemning all the military. Giving the benefit of the doubt, I will make the assumption that isn’t what was meant. In this particular case we have, as far as I can tell from what I have read, one soldierally going beserk. I am sure we will learn more about himand what may have triggered this episode. But folks, remember, this is one soldier and until we learn more to extend it beyond that is unfair.
This is war and things happen. Atrocities have been committed in every war since mankind began and they will continue to do so. Some have been of a little more institutionalized nature, such as Abu Ghraib. Many have been more localized, such as this one appears to be. Of course, this would be a good argument for not having any wars, or for getting out of this one immediately. Both would be wonderful but neither is going to happen. And people on both sides understand this.
Additionally, you just don’t get out of a “war” just like that. War is not some little speedboat that turns on a dime, but rather more like an aircraft carrier which takes a while to change course. This is why PBO talked about getting out of Iraq responsibly and with more thought than there was in getting in there.
I n some comments that put this into terms of some type of RW consiracy, tying it to the urinating on corpses and the Koran burning. There is absolutely no evidence to justify that kind of thinking. First of all, the urinating didn’t even cause that much of a problem in Afghanistan when it came out. It only became more of a problem when people here talked as if it should be a problem.
Secondly, from everything I have read, the burning of the Korans was not meNt in any malicious way. Stupid yes, malicious, no. One thing that just about anybody that has been in the military will tell you is that you just about never do anything that will put your fellow soldiers at increased risk if you can void it. To try to get a bunch of soldiers to do just that as some sort of organized RW conspiracy is like spitting into the wind. The odds against it are way too high.
So, as Jovie said above, give the military a break. Drop the conspiracy theories. Pray for the familiess of those who were victims and pray for thosare going to have to deal with the fallout, although they were innocent and noninvolved in the actual activity. This is from PBO down to the lowliest private trying just to make it home alive.
much respect for your opinion and insight - you have your very own skin in these war.
thank you very much for the gift of your very own son in service of some of us who do not always deserve your sacrifice. here is hoping that all will be safe.
yes to all this, thank you Carolyn.
Spot on carolyn but you should have added poor blacks and Latinos to that recruit pool.
isonprize, you’re right about the draft. None of the children of the people who got us into these wars had to participate. Young men (and women) fight old men’s wars. It has ever been thus, sadly. The draft would go somewhat to equalizing the burden.
THE DRAFT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED SO MANY FROM RETURNING TO WAR 2 AND 3 TIMES. IT HAS TAKEN ITS TOLL. THEN THE REPUBS. COMPLAIN ABOUT THE COST OF WAR…YET WANT PBO TO DIG INTO ANOTHER ONE. YOU ALSO DON’T FIND REPUBS. STRESSING THE FACT THAT IRAQ WAS AN UNJUST WAR…OH NO…THAT’S BECAUSE GEORGIE WAS INVOLVED..THE WORST MISTAKE EVER MADE IN A VOTING BOOTH!
Yes, Sue, we have to remember daily to lift POB up in our quiet times of prayer, quiet meditations of readings, good positive words of encouragement, and grace for God’s wisdom to handle all that POB has to handle.
I am also grateful that we have a level headed president as POB in the Oval Office, and we will do all within our power to make sure we work hard to keep him there to complete his job. I pray daily for wisdom, and I will not stop now. Be encourage TOD family for our military men and women and officers on the ground as well as for the families of these men and women.
Let us have faith that POB will always do the right thing for all of us. I believe that he will do that.HZ
AMEN and AMEN. HZ so thoughtful and “spot on” as usual.
Good night family. Blessings on all of you and especially our President and VP and their families…..and I am going to add SoS Clinton and the rest of the national security team.
If I would like to post a picture that I like, how do I do it?
The only “Pictures” that we can post are videos from Youtube. Chica (Chipsticks, the blog hostess with the mostest) can post still photos.
Thanks. Do I just email her? It is just a nice pic. Probably everyone has seen it before.
Robney will blame this fiasco in Afghanistan on the fact that this President set a date for withdrawal.
Got that?
It makes no sense, and their will be no follow up, or subsequent discussion, on Robney’s answer.
The Greatest show on Earth, AKA best Political Team, will simply pivot to what this means for the President and his Base.
Then, they will have on Arianna Suckington, to tell us all that nobody likes Obama anymore.
This shit is so predictable!
I could care less what Romney says.
New chat post here everyone:
http://theobamadiary.com/2012/03/11/evening-all-51/